Are We Perverts?

In the Off-Topic thread regarding Den of Angels, I mentioned that I was intrigued by the opinion Den of Angels members and to extension some resin bjd owners and even those not in the doll collecting hobby have towards DD owners.Nakitaninja suggested I post this as a general discussion thread.

 

I have a couple of friends who collect resin bjds. All of us have monthly meet-ups where we share our dolls, talk about characters, etc. One of our members has DDs, he brings them to every meet and takes pictures. Myself and another member have always been fascinated by DDs and sometimes he lets us play with his girls a little bit (playing around with his Neris and Alna convinced me to take the plunge for a girl of my own.)

 

However, I began asking around in our own group, and even to BJD groups on facebook and the like. A lot of us are anime fans, why aren't there more Dollfie Dream owners? To some, they sited the cost of a limited DD detoured them, though really the lottery prices for these DDs are favorably comparable to some popular resin dolls, not all, but some. I also got an interesting response of " Because DDs are sexy dolls owned by perverts."

 

I have a male friend with resin dolls who takes cheesecake and even nude photos of his dolls, and no one bats an eye, but then someone takes a covered shot of a DD with a sexy pose and it's considered perverted?

 

I guess I can't fully comprehend this, since I am a female collector, but why?

 

Why are Dollfie Dreams considered to be perverted? Does owning one make us perverts, or is that because of our actions we choose to take with them? Do girl collectors out there get called perverts online when posting photos, or is this something that is only applied to male collectors?

It's funny how people see DD's. I know from past experience with other collectors that they are always seen as a lesser doll than resins. That is, until they see one in person.

 

At my first doll meet locally, I only had my one girl, Manami. She's a custom DDdy girl with an 01 head. When I brought her in, she was well covered in a Volks Ryomou Shimei School Uniform. But that uniform has a short skirt and the top is tight so being on a DDdy, all you can see is butt and boobs.

 

Everyone was very impressed with her tho and amazed at how posable and light she was. But all the female members there said similar things... as in "Damn her boobs are huge!"

 

So I think the overall design of most DD's are to show off the female form. That's what is targeted in Japan, the male consumer of anime and manga. And those otaku are always seen as pervs. So I think the stigma stays with the DD's even over here.

 

What's cool to me is that in the US and Canada, the ownership of DD's is almost a 50/50 split for male/female. I know a lot of guys who own DD's but I know even more females. And I like that. I think it helps the DD's to be seen in a better light and not just as sex objects owned by creeps.

 

It always seems that people who have never seen or held a DD are always the ones that are quick to judge them. After holding them and seeing them in person, everyone I know has been very accepting of them and the girls in my local DoA meetup group actually love my girls now. They enjoy having them around and posing them with their BJD's.

 

I don't know if *I* am seen as a pervert by people who don't know me. I don't particularly care either. Anyone who knows me knows who I am and they also know that I'm a bit ecchi. And so are a few of my girls. I have 2 or 3 that like being sexy and showing off skimpy clothes. Some may see that as a bad thing but I sure don't. I didn't buy my girls to hide them from everyone. I bought my girls because I love how they look and want to share them with others who think the same. My girls are beautiful and lovely and I take pics to reflect that.

 

And now I am officially rambling.

 

Good question tho and I hope we see some good ideas from others on this. I'm not sure if I helped with any of my chatter but maybe I did.

 

 

Billy

I think a lot of the "sexy" part comes from the fact that a great deal of limited DD are from... eroge. This is by no means a bad thing. I actually play quite a few myself (though no nukige, I want a plot please). Sex is part of life, it can easily enhance a story.

 

The problem seems to be with FEMALE sexuality, unfortunately. DD, and especially DDdy are unashamedly feminine. You get people posting their yaoiboiz all over DoA and no one cares, but once you bring a female into the picture people start to cringe a bit. Make it an idealized female like a DD, most of which don't have the sulky, pouty look most resins do but instead seem bright and happy - I think it just squicks a lot of people.

Everyone's opinions are welcome Baldylox, and I have also found that those who tend to be more negative towards DDs have never seen one in person. Also, the otaku subculture probably has something to do with it. I do find it interesting you mention that 50/50 for male vs female collectors, because everytime I hear DDs mentioned it's always about male collectors, never the female collectors. Does that mean all collectors are assume male until otherwise in this hobby, or do people just ignore the fact that female collectors exist to make their perceived notions valid?

 

Suzuna, I like your points as well. Personally, it's the suggestive photos with the pouty/sad faces that squick me, it makes it seem like the doll is an unwilling participant in the photoshoot. I have no problems with a girl being in a suggestive photoshoot, but if she's in it I want to atleast know that she's a willing participant, otherwise it just makes me feel creepy. XD

Lord Noir, my impression is that in Japan, DD collectors are primarily male and a completely different "target audience" than Volkswagen has for their resin dolls. Outside of Japan, the DD market seems split male and female.

 

I guess that as a straight female, no one has ever really questioned me for being pervy, at least to my face (or internet face). To me, DDs are examples of the idealized female form. There are plenty of muscle-y male BJDs or bishie boy BJDs in a similar vein.

 

I have gotten the feeling that as a straight female, I "shouldn't" like large breasts on my dolls. I really can't understand that. Am I not supposed to like/appreciate boobs just because I have my own set?

I do find it interesting you mention that 50/50 for male vs female collectors, because everytime I hear DDs mentioned it's always about male collectors, never the female collectors. Does that mean all collectors are assume male until otherwise in this hobby, or do people just ignore the fact that female collectors exist to make their perceived notions valid?

 

 

Well, from what I gather and have seen in person, the North American community of DD owners is very evenly split between males and females. I deal with lots of male collectors but more females on average. Overseas, it's the opposite. It's a primarily male based hobby with only a few women involved. I mean just look here on the forums.... we have a LOT of women here who collect DD's. I think that's awesome. I generally get along better with females anyways, they seem more in line with how I percieve stuff than guys do. That is, out of the DD hobby. Within the hobby, most of my close firends, male or female, all see things similarly to me. You seem to share a lot of my thoughts too.

 

I think over here in North America, the stigma of a boy/man playing with or collecting dolls is seen as a negative. It's an old upbringing thing. Boys play with guns and cars, girls play with dolls. That annoys me to no end really.

 

 

Billy

I have gotten the feeling that as a straight female, I "shouldn't" like large breasts on my dolls. I really can't understand that. Am I not supposed to like/appreciate boobs just because I have my own set?

 

 

LOL! THIS is gold. I totally agree with you here. I have MANY female friends who appreciate the female form, 2D or 3D, real or doll. I love this point PC!

 

 

Billy

It does seem like there are a lot of females in the hobby overseas, but I think we're just talkative. It's probably a more even split.

I have gotten the feeling that as a straight female, I "shouldn't" like large breasts on my dolls. I really can't understand that. Am I not supposed to like/appreciate boobs just because I have my own set?

 

 

LOL! THIS is gold. I totally agree with you here. I have MANY female friends who appreciate the female form, 2D or 3D, real or doll. I love this point PC!

 

 

Billy

 

I have to agree. ^^ kudos PrettyCranium for saying it better than I probably ever could.

 

But like Suzuna said, it's not like girls don't play eroge or watch ecchi, but it's expected for them not to for some reason. *shrug* Frankly, I'm of the type to believe a doll, even a DD isn't a sexual thing unless you make it such, kind of like how an Eroge or a dating sim, etc. can just be a game with a storyline if that's how you choose to look at it.

Yes we are......

 

DoA members are predominantly female - refer to the thread on the DoA on how some of them feel about male collectors of Bjds.

Also the association of BJDs with anime thread (which one cannot help but avoid in the case of DDs) on the same forum.

 

DD collectors are predominantly male - so as a subset of bjd collectors we represent a different demographic.

 

I'd say (some of us) are about as perverted as the yaoi--male-crossdressing-doll fangirls are on that forum (At worst).

There are DD collectors who for instance paint the nipples and the other private parts of their DDs in the appropriate colours but I'd say these are the minority.....

In short I dont think we are any dodgier than the average bjd collector except we are a conspicious male minority.

I started in resin and mostly on DoA. I have two resin girls from DoD. With the high female population on DoA I certainly felt like one of the few. However, it seems many there think it is great to have guys in the hobby.

 

My DoD girls (and most BJDs in general) are more "anatomically correct", which maybe helps make them appear more so as "art dolls" compared to the more sexy and somewhat simplified designs of DDs. So I agree, it probably stems from the overall design of DDs in general along with the stereotype of the typical anime fan. You can't deny that there are certainly some that enjoy DDs in an ecchi fashion, from the mild to the extreme (just skim through doll.fm). From what I've seen it does seem a bit more prevalent on the DD side than the BJD side. That obviously doesn't account for everyone, just like anything else.

 

But, honestly, no, I don't agree that buying a DD makes you some kind of pervert outright. People buy them (and resin BJDs) for all sorts of different reasons. To me, it is the customization that I love. DDs are just anime styled dolls in the same vain as resin BJDs. To say a DD owner is a pervert is almost akin to saying all anime fans are as well, which is obviously not true (usually). People that generalize like that are usually not the type I associate with or care what they think.

 

Of course, it also depends on if you think being a pervert is bad or not.

 

Here the population does seem much more balanced, which I also think is great.

Well, and who cares if it is sexual? I know this sounds odd but just because something evokes the idea of 'sexy' it doesn't really mean anything different from a classical nude painting of a woman. Not all women shared the proportions depicted by the Venus de Milo but it was (and remains) a particular idea and standard of beauty at the time. DDs are just a 'standard of beauty' borne via animation and graphic design. The idea of what a woman looks like is abstracted but it's definitely still there.

 

I'm guessing most of us like anime and love the art form. There's a thread this forum called 'what did you think when you saw your first DD?" I think my head exploded because all of a sudden I had the ability to own a doll that looked like my favorite characters out of an anime.... something that has never existed before! They were so beautiful beyond any other doll I had ever seen before.

 

I still bought a resin first because I was told they made a better doll. I should have know all along I could defeat my artistic sensibilities because I have been and will always be drawn back by the beauty of the proportions and design that makes a DD what it is.

 

 

DDs allow you to create your own dream anime girl fairly easily. We follow and appreciate the same aesthetic- I don't personally believe that makes us perverts or less of appreciators of art. Quite to the contrary! We just appreciate the same form of art and Volks makes the epitome of the best anime themed dolls on the market.

 

 

Also, I might be a pervert. lol

...than Volkswagen has ...

 

Posting from an iPhone?

...than Volkswagen has ...

 

Posting from an iPhone?

 

LOL! My iPad, actually. It always wants to autocorrect "Volks" to either "Volkswagen" or "folks."

I don't know if *I* am seen as a pervert by people who don't know me. I don't particularly care either.

Well said!

 

Why are Dollfie Dreams considered to be perverted? Does owning one make us perverts, or is that because of our actions we choose to take with them? Do girl collectors out there get called perverts online when posting photos, or is this something that is only applied to male collectors?

There's nothing to be embarrassed about; owning a Dollfie Dream® doesn't make you a pervert. You would be a pervert for collecting Dollfie Dream® if and only if all Dollfie Dream® collectors are perverts. I have two Dollfie Dream®s, and I'm not a pervert. Are you a pervert? That's very unlikely, and this applies to most people.

Well, I started with MSD-size resin BJD before getting into DD. I realised that my resin dolls were too chunky and immature looking for the fashions that I wanted them to wear. Putting sexy outfits on underage dolls felt a bit pervy, as well. So, that's how I eventually ended up in DD land.

 

What I like about the ultra-curvy DD body is that it looks especially good with clothes on! The slimmer figure corrects for the extra bulk of the fabric of doll-size clothes, and looks more 'real' in some ways. Plus I appreciate the curves as well

I'm sure there are folks who fetishize DD but I'm cool with that, eroge, and erotic art in general. I'm less comfortable with the MDD because of the source material sometimes being borderline loli. I continue to wish for a MDD that's more of a chibi adult and less a little sister type.

I am pretty new to DDs, and BJDs in general, but I have already been verbally assaulted by people who have seen me with my dolls before. I have been called a pervert, a pedophile, and all sorts of other names. I don't really understand why people get that impression, but they're the kind of people I don't want to associate with, anyway.

I personally like DDs because they're very cute, and I really like dressing them up in cute clothes and seeing other people's DDs in cute clothes. It's much more about the cute for me than the sexy, but I can appreciate some sexy photos and outfits, too, and I would never look down on someone else for liking the sexy aspect more. I really believe in "to each his own," and I don't think that anything can be considered wrong if it does no harm.

I also think, in the USA, at least, that a big part of seeing men who collect DDs as being perverts comes from the fact that, in this country, the predominant train of thought is "Dolls are for girls"

 

G.I. Joe isn't a doll, he's an action figure... and predominantly composed of male figure dolls in war uniforms. War = Manly Profession

 

But Dolls.... with pretty hair and pretty dresses and nice makeup, *THOSE* are for girls.

So single guys who buy big-boobed sexy girl dolls can only be one thing, perverts.

 

NO, this is not my personal opinion, but let's be honest. While *WE* are more open-minded, and for that matter, just more used to seeing dolls owned by a great range of collectors, the vast majority of the public here in the USA is not. They are used to seeing dolls being owned by female children.

(Think back, I suspect that even our family members who are now tolerant, and possibly even adore our dolls, originally thought it a bit strange that as adults, we were collecting dolls (for those of us who haven't been collecting dolls our entire life, or who don't come from a family of doll collectors))

 

As a female, I myself have experienced questions such as "Why do you own such a slutty looking doll?" (Poor Alna ), but the explanation of "They're based on an anime aesthetic" not only seems to explain this to the people who ask, but it also seems to negate me personally being a pervert. I'm not sure if they think "Ah, it's based on Anime, and they all dress like perverts" or what, but once I say that DDs are based on an anime aesthetic, I seem to be in the clear of suspected perversion.

 

I would love to hear a weigh in from guys on this forum who aren't single, and what they've experienced... does having a girlfriend/wife/so to share the hobby with negate outsiders suspecting you're a pervert?

 

From what I've seen, single guys who collect DDs in the USA are almost always thought of as perverts by outsiders to the DD hobby. I've talked to people who didn't want to join this forum because they thought it was just filled with a bunch of pervy guys taking gross pictures of their DD girls.

And EVERYONE I've spoken to is 100% suspect of why a single guy would even consider collecting such a doll in the first place.

 

For me, I attribute it all to the US taboo of men owning dolls... since in the common person's frame of mind, dolls are a "girl" thing... and for those kinds of people, there is just no other way to explain away a single man owning a doll other than "pervert" unless they really take the time to get to know the man.

What an excellent thread idea, so many thoughtful responses!

 

Throwing in my two pennies, I'd say no to the title question as well! In a sense, I always thought that "sexy" styled DD's were even less inclined towards "pervy" than their resin counterparts, as they are far more stylized and thus less human looking. That is not to say that I find sexy resin dolls pervy either, I just find it odd how people that own sexy resin dolls get less flack than those that own sexy DD's.

 

Admittedly, DD's are way more "fan service" oriented than most resin BJD's, and the fan service is pretty much ALL for guys (see also: no male DD's, forever twice) and often includes characters from eroge and other such sexy-series. Though outside Japan, the market for DD's seems pretty evenly split between genders, Volks does not seem to care about this and continues to make (Japanese) men their prime target. Perhaps they consider the foreign market too small.

 

But I've always thought that if they did DD's of series that have a broader appeal, or marketed to women too, they would not have such a reputation as pervy. It is easy for the casual observer to call "pervert!" on the person that buys DD Escalayer and Kanu, but what about if it was DD's of Rukia and Orihime (Bleach), Ed and Winry (FMA), Nami and Robin (One Piece), or Allen and Lenalee (D.Gray Man)? Still plenty of big boobs and sex appeal, but definitely not the same impression.

 

But there are so many reasons people love DD's besides their sex appeal. They somehow manage to be cool, cute, and sexy, all rolled into one! And they are perfect for doll-ifying anime/manga characters -- it just isn't the same when you try to use a more "normal" BJD sculpt (and believe me, I have tried, lol).

I would love to hear a weigh in from guys on this forum who aren't single, and what they've experienced... does having a girlfriend/wife/so to share the hobby with negate outsiders suspecting you're a pervert?

 

Guess my influence will help here.

 

I am married and have a 1 yr old daughter. Do i consider myself a perv, not really. I've been collecting anime stuff way before i met my wife, and she doesn't see me as a perv. Sure i turned to more "suggestive" characters since i started, but it's more about the character itself rather than what he/she is wearing. If i find the character to be intriguing, i tend to buy stuff made after them. And most important, when i buy a figure/doll, i love figures that are articulated!!!!! If it can move and pose , I WANT IT!!!!

 

Does is negate outside opinions, i think it does to a degree (depending on the individual). I remember when i first showed my doll to my dad. He thought it was strange that i liked dolls (which he never knew before) but he never thought i was a perv. Sure he jokes around with me about it but he doesn't look down on me for it. Now he just sees it as another hobby i like to partake in.

 

I understand what people say though. Given the upbringing of this country, Boys played with G I Joes and girls had Barbie. But when i was young i played with both, cause to me they were both toys and i had fun playing with them.

 

I hope this will add prospective to this much interesting topic!!

 

Wayne

...

 

I understand what people say though. Given the upbringing of this country, Boys played with G I Joes and girls had Barbie. But when i was young i played with both, cause to me they were both toys and i had fun playing with them.

 

I hope this will add prospective to this much interesting topic!!

 

Wayne

 

On a side note, I spent a lot of time at a neighbor girl's house when I was young playing with barbies with her... I wonder how many guys who collect DDs here have some sort of experience with barbies?

I wonder how many guys who collect DDs here have some sort of experience with barbies?

 

 

I never played with Barbies as a child but I did have a Mego Wonder Woman doll/action figure. I loved me some WW when I was young and always wanted anything I could get with her on it. Lynda Carter was my first true crush.

 

Barbies did nothing for me and my sister wasn't into them much as a kid. She was more of a tomboy and liked the Star Wars, G.I.Joe and other figures I had. She also played with He-Man stuff way more than I did. As we got older, she did get into JEM dolls and the occasional Barbie styled girls but hardly any "brand name" Barbies. She liked the different styles other brands offered. As for me, I got into Transformers and other typical boy toys.

 

Our parents let us play with whatever toys we wanted and didn't hold us to a certain "ideal" or typical pattern for play. They were pretty open with whatever made us happy. When I first got Manami and showed her to my parents, the first thing Mom said was "I guess this is what we get for letting you have Wonder Woman dolls as a kid." It was in jest of course. My family has been really great with accepting the DD's I own and my Mom has a great time finding DD sized items for them to use and play with.

 

 

Billy

When we were little, my aunt and I used to play GI Joe all the time! She had some of the coolest figures, like Spirit and Storm Shadow ver. 2. I also had a 12 inch Luke Skywalker figure, which would hang out with her Barbies too.

 

Having a DD doesn't make you a pervert. Nor does watching anime, even "ecchi" stuff like Ikki Tousen and Highschool of the Dead. There are a lot of people who jump to conclusions and figure if they see an adult playing with a doll/figure, or watching a 'cartoon' there must be something wrong, because "those things are for kids."

 

Look at how lawmakers in California are still defending a (in my opinion, rather pointless, since retailers voluntarily card for M rated games) bill to block the sale of M rated games to minors. Video games have actually grown up with their audience, the average player is in his/her 20s or 30s, but many still say we need to "think of the children" when they see a violent video game.

 

There's a whole other mess there, but basically, our society looks down on anything that makes them say, "hey, that's not for you!" and they have to have some sort of derogatory label for you. Well, in my experience, anyway.

I wonder how many guys who collect DDs here have some sort of experience with barbies?

I actually did not play with dolls growing up. The closest I ever got to playing with a Barbie was finding an older one of my cousin's that was missing a leg and pretending it was a syringe for when we were playing doctor. The one leg was the needle.

 

I guess you could say I had the opposite experience. I grew up playing with GI Joes. Both the 4 inch and 12 inch varieties. I did like some non-boy things when I was very little, but I really got out of "girly" stuff after I hit 7 years old or so.

 

Does anybody remember those ads for those dolls in TV Guide back in the very early 90s? Back when I was 4 or 5 years old, I was truly smitten by them. I asked my mom to keep old TV Guides because I wanted to look at the pictures of the pretty dolls. However, that changed once I got into GI Joe.

 

I guess my "girliness" had to come back sooner or later. Now I like all types of dolls, including Dollfie Dreams. Even though I know there are a lot of male DD fans, I never really considered it a male hobby. I always did wonder why so many DDs were based on hentai characters. That's not important to me, though. I like that my DDs are mature women

So many interesting points and ideas brought up!

 

I'm a huge pervert.

No that isn't why I collect DD or any of my figures. I don't even sexualise my dolls! ^^;

I don't think it's fair to lump all DD collectors in with perverts.

 

Also why does pervert have to have a negative connotation? I'm female, in a heterosexual relationship, but I'm certainly not the straightest arrow in the quiver - nor would I want to be OR pretend to be!

 

 

I'm secretly a dirty old man. Several of you already know this!