Dolls as fashion items - Good or bad idea for the hobby?

Some of you may have seen

from Penang Fashion Week 2016 featuring Danny Choo and the Smart Dolls.

 

It certainly is cool to see dolls being featured outside the typical doll-focused hobby areas of society. That said, for quite some time now I've been sceptical about Danny's choice to market the Smart Doll as a fashion item/brand. That video just made me even more sceptical.

 

I can't help but think that Danny's choice to market Smart Dolls as fashion items may have a negative effect on the doll hobby in the long run. The reason being that many products and brands that have become associated with the fashion industry in the past, has had their prices increase to more or less ridiculous levels.

 

My two main concerns about Smart Dolls being associated with the fashion industry are:

 

• The inevitable effect of Smart Doll becoming a fashion item is that their prices will increase. One potential and undesired side effect of this is that the prices of other doll brands will also increase.
   
   
  
• If the Smart Doll becomes a fashion item, then the status of other doll brands may shift from hobby status to fashion status. Inevitably this will cause the prices of other doll brands to also increase.

 

The doll hobby is already prohibitively expensive as it is for many. I can't help but think that having dolls become fashion items can't be good for the doll hobby's price development in the long run.

I doubt it'll get more expensive. There would probably just be crazy expensive limited edition ones with ridiculous things like diamond encrusted tiaras, similar to Apple watches and such.

 

Also if it became a fashion item, it would likely be a passing fad. So it would be a poor decision to alienate the current fan base. If anything the fad aspect would be the annoying part.

I doubt it'll get more expensive. There would probably just be crazy expensive limited edition ones with ridiculous things like diamond encrusted tiaras, similar to Apple watches and such.

 

Same. In fact Danny mentioned that he was trying to lower the prices for his Smart Doll, and through expanding his business, he'll be able to do so. Right now he runs a rather small company which is why he needs more $ through his products. The thing is, Danny's goal is to make the Smart Doll a very universal doll and also marketed at people that aren't necessarily already into the hobby or Japanese culture. I think that he mentioned that so far around 90% of Smart Doll owners are first time BJD owners (correct me if I'm wrong). Marketing the Smart Doll as a fashion doll would probably be the best way to make the Smart Doll a "universal" doll.

I think before SmartDolls become fashion, Danny would have to create fashion for SmartDolls.

If I look at the shop

https://shop.smartdoll.jp/collections/apparel-accessories

there are no items with top girl's/women's fashion style.

Especially the apparel in the categorie "Innerwear / インナー" is abolutly out of the question. Not cute, not sexy, not stylish.

I think before SmartDolls become fashion, Danny would have to create fashion for SmartDolls.

If I look at the shop

https://shop.smartdoll.jp/collections/apparel-accessories

there are no items with top girl's/women's fashion style.

Especially the apparel in the categorie "Innerwear / インナー" is abolutly out of the question. Not cute, not sexy, not stylish.

 

I'm going to venture to guess that the reason most of his clothes are so plain is because of cost. His processes are probably way too expensive to develop clothing that will still be low enough in price for people to buy. His plain items are already pushing the limits of what most people would be willing to pay. For example, the jeans which is one of his more elaborate (and in stock) items are $81 USD. Then you've got those plain shirts around $45 USD. If you were to buy a little shirt or sweater from Volks by itself, it would probably be $30 and more elaborate, because they are bigger and have more resources/experience. Oh and then there's the summer uniform, which is $145 USD. If Volks produced something similar, it would be $60-80. So I don't expect we'll see much fancy clothes until his operating costs go down.

I think before SmartDolls become fashion, Danny would have to create fashion for SmartDolls.

If I look at the shop

https://shop.smartdoll.jp/collections/apparel-accessories

there are no items with top girl's/women's fashion style.

Especially the apparel in the categorie "Innerwear / インナー" is abolutly out of the question. Not cute, not sexy, not stylish.

 

I'm going to venture to guess that the reason most of his clothes are so plain is because of cost. His processes are probably way too expensive to develop clothing that will still be low enough in price for people to buy. His plain items are already pushing the limits of what most people would be willing to pay. For example, the jeans which is one of his more elaborate (and in stock) items are $81 USD. Then you've got those plain shirts around $45 USD. If you were to buy a little shirt or sweater from Volks by itself, it would probably be $30 and more elaborate, because they are bigger and have more resources/experience. Oh and then there's the summer uniform, which is $145 USD. If Volks produced something similar, it would be $60-80. So I don't expect we'll see much fancy clothes until his operating costs go down.

 

Danny is also a person that has a simple/casual taste for fashion, so I doubt that he'll be creating more "fancy" clothes in general. Although the prices are pretty high, I appreciate that he puts so much quality into his smart doll apparel unlike Volks. Whenever I buy from him I always know that the clothing will not stain. I also like how he makes the clothing quality high enough that humans could wear it if it were a bigger size. This is a good marketing appeal to people who have never owned dolls before or would like to show off their dolls to the general public more - the design aspect is very good.

I do hope that in the future he lowers prices though, especially for the jeans. Maybe around $40 for them, like TTYA jeans.

I really do appreciate the work Danny has done and how much effort he puts into his creations though. He's come very far.

That segment of the Fashion Week video was weird. The models looked uncomfortable. I wish they had been smiling and then it would have felt more authentic (models as doll collectors showing off their lovely dolls) or humorous. Oh well.

It's my personal feeling that Danny Choo's marketing has been pretty gratuitous and off-beat from the get go. However, it must be working as I personally have known many people who formerly had no interest in Dollfie Dream purchasing as their first large girl of this general style a Smart Doll instead. I don't really get that, what these people find so much more appealing about Smart Doll.

However, I do actually love the clothing line that Danny Choo has created for them. I think that casual fashion is just as important as glamorous fashion (or subculture fashions like punk and lolita) that you already see plenty of with this style of doll. As a real life woman who wears jeans and t-shirts every day I like that I could get a smart doll and dress her in a style I would actually enjoy instead of in a vinyl cosplay outfit or evening dress.

Anyway, I don't think Danny's weird marketing will be able to have much effect on anything other than his own company and line of dolls.

I don't really get that, what these people find so much more appealing about Smart Doll.

 

Smart Doll's marketing is simply better than Volks. This makes it more accessible to people new to the hobby.

 

1) His website is great. It's beautiful and modern and easy to navigate. Volks International site is terrible. The new Volks USA site is a vast improvement, but that's only been fully functional recently, and limited to north america.

2) His English is excellent and natural.

3) There's tons of photos and videos in all different lighting and not heavily photoshopped, so you know exactly what you're getting.

4) He is good at keeping clothes in stock, especially casual clothes. So even if you got the essentials version and wanted to pick out other clothes, you will pretty much never have to end up getting this half naked doll and then trying to figure out where else to get clothes and hope they fit.

5) He understands how to make social media work for him, so I'm sure that's helped reach a wider audience.

 

So it's not really that Smart Doll is more appealing than a DD on its own, just the marketing and such makes it easier for newcomers to feel more comfortable ordering it (and want to order it.) If you look at the Volks site, there's all these super polished photos of dolls in nighties and a lot of out of stock clothing OR there's all these ads for pricey full set dolls via lottery or dollpa or whatever, all concepts that are likely unappealing to a newcomer looking to buy their first doll.

I don't really get that, what these people find so much more appealing about Smart Doll.

 

Smart Doll's marketing is simply better than Volks. This makes it more accessible to people new to the hobby.

 

1) His website is great. It's beautiful and modern and easy to navigate. Volks International site is terrible. The new Volks USA site is a vast improvement, but that's only been fully functional recently, and limited to north america.

2) His English is excellent and natural.

3) There's tons of photos and videos in all different lighting and not heavily photoshopped, so you know exactly what you're getting.

4) He is good at keeping clothes in stock, especially casual clothes. So even if you got the essentials version and wanted to pick out other clothes, you will pretty much never have to end up getting this half naked doll and then trying to figure out where else to get clothes and hope they fit.

5) He understands how to make social media work for him, so I'm sure that's helped reach a wider audience.

 

So it's not really that Smart Doll is more appealing than a DD on its own, just the marketing and such makes it easier for newcomers to feel more comfortable ordering it (and want to order it.) If you look at the Volks site, there's all these super polished photos of dolls in nighties and a lot of out of stock clothing OR there's all these ads for pricey full set dolls via lottery or dollpa or whatever, all concepts that are likely unappealing to a newcomer looking to buy their first doll.

 

Right. He's very smart about his business and knows how to market Smart Doll to people who have never even heard of a bjd before. It's very easy and convenient to order items from him. He's also very helpful in giving advice on caring for the Smart Doll and etc. He also answers questions and takes suggestions on twitter and very easy to communicate with overall.

I doubt his marketing will affect Volks. I was just a bit shocked at how recently when he released the Smart Doll body, he was going to include an extra silicone tube so it'll be easier to attach other doll heads such as Volks' to the Smart Doll body. However, he received complaints from a certain Doll company (pretty sure Volks), and they told him not to include it. He came up with a different reason and included it anyways.

I don't like how Volks is so stingy about themselves. You're not even allowed to bring a non Volks doll into Dolpa, lol. So I really like how Danny is very open about his business and really works to make people happy.

Anyway, I don't think Danny's weird marketing will be able to have much effect on anything other than his own company and line of dolls.

 

BINGO!!! it's all about marketing & MONEY! He knows how to reach out to other geo.

This why SMART DOLL have their own section on this forum

 

when was the last time you hear anything from these peep

Super Dollfie Volks

U-noa

Delf from Luts

Cerberus Project

Custom House

Doll in Mind

Dollshe

Dream of Doll

Elfdoll

Dollzone

Danny is also a person that has a simple/casual taste for fashion, so I doubt that he'll be creating more "fancy" clothes in general.

 

I take it you're unfamiliar with his wedding dress line for SmD & humans?

Danny is also a person that has a simple/casual taste for fashion, so I doubt that he'll be creating more "fancy" clothes in general.

 

I take it you're unfamiliar with his wedding dress line for SmD & humans?

 

Did anything ever come of that? It's been over a year but there hasn't been much more about it.

It's hard to find information, but I can't tell if that's because they haven't pursued additional designs beyond the first two or simply because of the language barrier for me (the target market was Asia/Chinese-speaking market). Google helpfully corrects "Danny Choo" to "Jimmy Choo" so searching doesn't turn up more than his initial Facebook posts—but my god, Jimmy Choo BRIDAL SHOES!!! Can we get some of those for Smart Dolls?????

Danny is also a person that has a simple/casual taste for fashion, so I doubt that he'll be creating more "fancy" clothes in general.

 

I take it you're unfamiliar with his wedding dress line for SmD & humans?

 

Did anything ever come of that? It's been over a year but there hasn't been much more about it.

 

Exactly. It's not officially released. Danny actually has quite a few dresses and clothes that were made for SmD by others such as design students, but he uses them currently only for decorating the dolls in his store since he has only one or a few of each. Right now he's focused on creating more casual apparel, new SmDs, and wigs etc to be concerned about releasing fancy clothes such as a wedding dress. The wedding dress probably required a lot of time and skill to make and thus would be quite pricey, and he probably knows that not many folks would buy it so now is not the right time.

I don't know if BJDs on the fashion runway are a good idea or not (if it results in terrible knock-offs then I'd say it's bad, but...)

 

But Danny Choo is kind of incredible? Like, most BJD companies are really reclusive, just working on their own sites, maybe with a banner ad on DoA or a newsletter for people who sign up for it. Basically if you're not in the hobby, you won't hear anything from a regular doll company, you have to go to them. But here Danny is, actually marketing worldwide, to people outside the hobby and organizing to actually have his dolls included in a fashion line Crazy.

I take it you're unfamiliar with his wedding dress line for SmD & humans?

 

Did anything ever come of that? It's been over a year but there hasn't been much more about it.

 

Exactly. It's not officially released. Danny actually has quite a few dresses and clothes that were made for SmD by others such as design students, but he uses them currently only for decorating the dolls in his store since he has only one or a few of each. Right now he's focused on creating more casual apparel, new SmDs, and wigs etc to be concerned about releasing fancy clothes such as a wedding dress. The wedding dress probably required a lot of time and skill to make and thus would be quite pricey, and he probably knows that not many folks would buy it so now is not the right time.

 

But the wedding dresses were released. They were available in the spring of 2015. I first became aware of the wedding dress(es) when someone sold their Mirai together with her wedding gown—which they specified was from Danny Choo/Smart Doll—on ebay. By that time they were no longer listed on the SmD site, so I assumed they were a store exclusive, however if you fast forward to the 11:25 mark of this YT video, this SmD owner says she ordered her wedding dress online:

But the wedding dresses were released. They were available in the spring of 2015. I first became aware of the wedding dress(es) when someone sold their Mirai together with her wedding gown—which they specified was from Danny Choo/Smart Doll—on ebay. By that time they were no longer listed on the SmD site, so I assumed they were a store exclusive, however if you fast forward to the 11:25 mark of this YT video, this SmD owner says she ordered her wedding dress online:

 

Huh. I guess they were pretty limited. But yeah, Danny choo tends to not make a lot of fancy clothes that are up for sale. Perhaps once in a while.

Actually DC's marketing looks something like how Apple market their stuff in my opinion. That's how a lot of people still buying Apple iphone although clearly it is something not everybody needs.

 

If I were to put it to words:

 

A solution looking for a problem, instead of a problem looking for a solution.

Actually DC's marketing looks something like how Apple market their stuff in my opinion. That's how a lot of people still buying Apple iphone although clearly it is something not everybody needs.

 

If I were to put it to words:

 

A solution looking for a problem, instead of a problem looking for a solution.

 

Yes! Smart Dolls are more like iPads though marketing wise. iPhones and other smartphones have more clear "usefulness" even if you don't necessarily *need* it. iPads are nice toys, but I'm pretty sure 98% of people that own iPads don't need it at all and wouldn't feel the loss if it were gone (other than the saddness of their wallet.)

I've been making and collecting dolls for 50 years so have seen many types of doll come and go. I've lived through the phases of Cabbage Patch dolls, large expensive vinyl children, cheap porcelain "Made in Taiwan" dolls, 16" fashion dolls, ugly vinyl European dolls and many more.

 

Dollfie Dreams are just another part of the doll hobby and they'll develop over time but be supplanted by another type of doll we haven't yet dreamed of (sorry for the pun) though there'll still be people who prefer them. So the fact that there are similar dolls being marketed as fashion items is just another aspect of the hobby and nothing to be worried about.

i sometimes use my dolls for creating dress and such(for my doll, not commercially) but widening the doll community further is probably better for the collectors themselves, i feel like soon-ish when Danny Choo's company is large enough to open other branches and have worldwide, physical stores so anyone can just walk in and pick out what their heart desires, other doll companies( as volks) will obviously feel the threatening competitions and possibly do the same, which means dolls being easier(probably cheaper) to obtain than ever. and i think that'd be AMAZING!

and i don't think he can do that if he limits himself to doll collectors only. but i'm sure that if he ever has a company so big that it's a worldwide project prices would have to go up, unfortunately

 

but i still can't get over the fact SMD's knees don't bend as far as DD's,like i am still trying (unsatisfied) to cope with DD's knees bend-abilities

Edited June 29, 2016 by Guest

I am a part of Japanese Lolita Fashion and different dolls from Volks and some Pullips have come out as limited items for a few of the Lolita Brands. They werent much more expensive than the usual dolls.

 

I also see the doll hobby expanding, giving us more options for clothes. Maybe the designer clothes will be more expensive, but the dolls themselves should stay the same. Dolls and fashion are both luxury items, so to me, it makes sense that they go together. I like the idea of fashionistas buying dolls they can carry with them to events and parties that have the same outfit as them in miniture.

i dont really see it as a bad thing but theres always things you may not like that come with change. thats just the nature of anything.

 

i do like he is giving the doll hobby more exposure as a "normal" person type hobby. i was pretty bummed out a few years back as im a big anthony bourdain fan and i seen he and danny met up while shooting in japan a handful of years ago and eagerly awaited anthonys japan episode but to no avail, there was no danny choo or dd/smd in the episode. ive always hoped the hobby would game some exposure and maybe even gain some new fans as i love dd/smd but didnt know about it till i had a gf who owned and was involved in the hobby herself. like i said tho not everyone will like what they see and some of us wont welcome the new attention with open arms, but i believe it could be a helpful thing for us, possibly even expanding the fan base to where companies like volks possibly look at us more seriously as consumers who really do love their products.

i dont really see it as a bad thing but theres always things you may not like that come with change. thats just the nature of anything.

 

Barettapunk, I think you misinterpreted my post. I certainly don't think it's bad that the doll hoby is getting more exposure, on the contrary. My main concern was that, historically, most things that have become associated with fashion has had an unjustified price increase.

 

Maybe I'm thinking too hard I guess we'll see what happens.

Oh sorry, I kinda approached it in a philosophical manner.

 

The way I see it, when "geek" culture came into fashion recently there were things that did see some boost in costs, but those were mostly rare items to begin with due to as with anything the more people seeking it, the more you can typical ask for it. All in all tho it did increase the influx of fun things we get to enjoy and I feel it gave a little more legitimacy to us, but with good comes some bad. The tired stereotypes, the over abundance of crap cluttering the way, and the over exposure of certain movies,shows, collectibles can really burn a person out.

 

All in all I'd be willing to take a chance on it. It may produce some great new clothing producers for our hobby. As with anything it will go back out of style eventually and that would leave us with a small abundance of really awesome things. At the same time some could argue it may water down the hobby. Who knows. I don't think it's something we have to worry about too much, and some items/dolls are incredibly expensive as it is now.