DD Fes 2016 - Ltd Preorder announcement Soon

Makes sense. I just wondered if that is sometimes why things are off schedule? Like someone tried to get to something beforehand but the actual project took a lot longer to get out. I bet delays and things change up schedules all the time?

 

I'm honestly not familiar with companies and mass production beyond when handling one particular item for a very long period of time (Like a food production line). So, I'm just throwing out totally impossible to prove theories.

 

It's sort of fascinating to see how far they've gone when it comes to collaborations. And I'm impressed that they they still manage the occasional original release for themselves.

It's probably something like a big rights holder coming in and saying, hey, we'll buy/mostly fund your production lines for 1 month to do a pre-order project. That might determine the size of the first shipment to customers, after that Volks is willing to increase their risk and take more cost for the rest.

 

When a doll gets only a tiny release from a lotto, it's probably because the rights holder was only willing to pay for 2 days of manufacturing or something.

 

Hmmm, I have to disagree on this one. In my experience, that's just not how things work. Usually, Company A buys production time from Company B and then Company A sells the final product -- not Company B. Usually, you don't even know the name of the Company B or that they even exist!

 

Plus, Volks is NOT a manufacturer (Virginal Art is their manufacturing company). Volks is a retailer!

 

Thus it's highly, highly unlikely that Volks is a "company for hire" and I highly doubt license holders are "buying" production time from Volks. Basically, I think Volks is Company A in this scenario, not Company B. Most likely, Volks is the one pursuing and buying the licenses, Volks is the one buying time on some other manufacturer's production lines, and Volks is the one making the key decisions.

 

Plus, in the grand scheme of things, Volks is a very small retailer. According to their website, their annual sales is 7 billion yen, or "only" 6.7 million USD or so, across all product lines, not just DDs. Compare Volks to other big toy retailers... Bandai's net sales are 565.5 billion yen (5.4 billion USD) and Takara Tomy's sales are 149.9 billion yen (1.4 billion USD).

 

Interestingly enough, I used to work for a small company that made 6.7 million USD in annual revenues in the last year I was with them. We pursued licensing agreements with other, bigger companies or brands with better recognition; created the products; had those manufactured in China and shipped back to us (we never disclosed the manufacturer to our clients; we made it sound like we'd done everything ourselves); and then sold everything under our brand name and relied on the "recognition power" of our licensing partners to help make sales. I'm betting Volks uses a similar formula!

 

Likely, the reason Volks gets pre-order licenses after the height of their popularity (or before a property launches, like Photokano) is because that's when those licenses can be had for cheap. They do small manufacturing runs because they can't afford to have unsold stock in their inventory or they can't afford more time on the production lines. They do short runs and have delays in production because they're the small fry and can't afford much manufacturing time, or their projects get bumped for bigger clients. The Type-Moon pre-order project probably went off the rails because Volks was literally too small to handle the volume that came in.

Thus it's highly, highly unlikely that Volks is a "company for hire" and I highly doubt license holders are "buying" production time from Volks. Basically, I think Volks is Company A in this scenario, not Company B. Most likely, Volks is the one pursuing and buying the licenses, Volks is the one buying time on some other manufacturer's production lines, and Volks is the one making the key decisions.

I agree with your points, but Virginal Art is just the name of Volks' manufacturing arm. You could make a better argument that Goodsmile isn't a manufacturing company because the factories are owned by other companies in China. Volks has the same position in the industry that GSC does, but they sell products for a higher income demographic. So a company that wants to monetize a property would go to Volks to access that demographic.

 

And yes, Volks is interested in making a business around dolls and keeping a loyal customer base happy (I hope), so it's not like they sit around without doing any product planning and are just a manufacturing company. But manufacturing capacity can't go idle or you lose money very quickly.

 

Edit: Oh, now I know what you mean by "for hire." I guess I implied that Volks manufactures whatever the license holder pays for, that's not what I meant. Volks shares interest to produce dolls as the license holder does, it might go something like this: Volks thinks a certain doll will sell X number of units at some price. Based on how complicated they design the fullset, they determine that a certain number of hours spent manufacturing will produce that many dolls. So based on that they come up with a total cost which they split with the license holder. If they decide to produce more or less, the license holder will pay more or less accordingly (or design the fullset cheaper to make that many dolls faster). I imagine some license holders want to pay less, so less hours are spent manufacturing bringing the cost down. Or they want to get it out by a certain marketing date, so they go for a cheaper/smaller manufacturing slot on the calendar that's available. So for an MDD, such as Arle or Prisma☆Illya, Volks' expert calculations decide that they'll sell a total of 8 and 3 dolls respectively (that's what it feels like). In the case of Melty & Sasara, they had a pretty good idea of what the demand was for those dolls were and I assume were willing to pay for them without the license holder having to pay much security (I would think Volks paid them). For a pre-order project, I don't see how Volks would commit to manufacture an unknown amount of dolls without getting some kind of financial security (being able to fund the first shipment) for it. I think a pre-order project would only happen if a license holder wanted it.

Edited July 13, 2016 by Guest

I just remembered that Danny is doing Love Live girls (at least Miho to begin with, preorder in Oct. I think...no limits) as SmDolls. I doubt that they would give the license to them both.

 

 

Actually, Miho is from Girls Und Panzer, not LL. So, Love Live is still possible (I'd honestly like a Nozomi first, or a Kotori.)

Oh, duh! I knew that. I don't know how or why I got them mixed up. I think because my friend and I had been talking about the possibilities of LL dolls and how great that would be.

 

Anyway, thanks for the correction. I need to read what I write once I wake up.

 

Nozomi and Kotori would be my favorites, too.

Plus, Volks is NOT a manufacturer (Virginal Art is their manufacturing company). Volks is a retailer!

 

I think people generally mean Volks Inc or Volks Group which the name of the overall company that manufactures and sells dollfie dreams. Virginal Art is their manufacturing wing while the retail side retains the name of Volks as the face of the company.

 

My own impression is that they just pick properties they're interested in, or that have reasonable licence fees, or in some cases due to a close relationship with another company. A friend who runs a company that Volks deals with called them business partners.

 

To me that says they have a list of companies they deal with that hold licences and they approach the company and ask if they have characters they'd like to see made into dollfie dreams along with licence costs. It's very possible the licence hold provides some form of stake in the manufacturing side which they see returned with a percentage of the profit. With the idolmaster range the licence might be cheap while Bandai ponies up a lot of the manufacturing costs while only seeking a small percentage of the profits along with their investment returned? I dunno but I assume the terms are good due to all the Idolmaster dolls they've made.

Virginal Arts is the smallest of all the Volks companies -- calling Volks (as a whole) a manufacturer because one tiny branch handles some manufacturing is akin to calling Apple a "watch company" because they sell watches... while ignoring all of their other product lines.

 

Here's how most licensing deals work:

 

You have a Licensee (Volks) and a Licensor (Type-Moon, Bandai, Touhou, etc.). Who approaches who can vary; sometimes the Licensee asks the Licensor if they'd be willing to license a brand, sometimes the Licensor approaches the Licensee asking if they're interested in creating products around a specific brand. For most companies, it's a mix; the same is probably true of Volks.

 

Once a Licensee and Licensor have connected and agreed on a specific brand-product combo, they enter into a licensing agreement. Those usually work like this:

 

The Licensor:

- Gets paid a royalty, usually a percentage of net sales, anywhere between 0.0001% and 25% of sales depending on the brand and projected sales

- Is usually guaranteed that a minimum number of products will be made (sometimes a maximum but that's not as common) and/or a minimum royalty amount

- Can limit where, when, and how items are sold (so a licensor could demand their item is a lotto or pre-order item, that it be released prior to or after a certain date, or that they're only sold in certain countries (think Touhou dolls being Japan-only))

- Generally needs to approve production samples to make sure they meet their quality standards, brand guidelines, copyright requirements, etc., but generally does not do the design themselves

- Depending on the agreement, may co-advertise with the licensee

 

The Licensee (Volks):

- Pays the licensor a royalty for use of their brand, and often guarantees a minimum royalty even if sales are less than expected

- Usually handles all aspects of the design (including how complex it is) and sends specs/samples to the licensor for approval

- Coordinates all manufacturing efforts and almost always pays 100% of the cost of manufacturing

- Markets the product to the public and either handles direct sales or handles sales through a third-party retailer

 

So based on that they come up with a total cost which they split with the license holder. If they decide to produce more or less, the license holder will pay more or less accordingly (or design the fullset cheaper to make that many dolls faster). I imagine some license holders want to pay less, so less hours are spent manufacturing bringing the cost down. Or they want to get it out by a certain marketing date, so they go for a cheaper/smaller manufacturing slot on the calendar that's available.

 

Licensors almost never "split" manufacturing costs with licensees -- licensors (license holders) are the ones getting paid not paying so they generally could care less how expensive manufacturing is so long as they get their royalties. The idea that a licensor wanting "to pay less" would impact how many hours are spent manufacturing doesn't make sense because they're usually not paying anything at all!

 

The relationship you're describing would be the relationship between Volks and a third-party manufacturing facility -- Volks might want "to pay less" and thus bring down the manufacturing hours, sure, but that would be Volks not the licensor.

 

For a pre-order project, I don't see how Volks would commit to manufacture an unknown amount of dolls without getting some kind of financial security (being able to fund the first shipment) for it. I think a pre-order project would only happen if a license holder wanted it.

 

Again, the licensor gets money from the licensee, they don't give money to the licensee. Volks would be responsible for coming up with the capital to fund a pre-order product; if anything, Volks would probably owe a financial security to the licensor as part of the licensing agreement! The license holder can restrict how items are sold -- so they could insist on a pre-order project vs. a lotto doll -- but they're not giving Volks money for manufacturing costs.

 

Now, if say, Volks licensed a product from Bandai and used Bandai's manufacturing facilities to make that product, then maybe Bandai would cover some of the manufacturing costs... but they still wouldn't be giving any money to Volks, they just would be charging them less for the manufacturing. I think this is pretty unlikely scenario, because it requires one of two things to be true:

(a) Volks would have to switch manufacturing facilities every time they get a different license, which would be a logistical nightmare (and no one wants their proprietary molds shuffled around non-stop, that's a copyright nightmare and just asking for bootlegs to happen)

(b) Volks would have to always use Bandai's manufacturing facilities, even when making non-Bandai products (Bandai's competitors would never want their proprietary designs on their competitor's manufacturing lines, again, copyright nightmare)

 

Most likely, Volks has a contracted third-party manufacturer, unrelated to any of their licensors, that they use to manufacture DDs (with design and maybe some part of manufacturing being done in-house). This way all of the molds stay in one place; production lines are well-equipped to handle this particular type of manufacturing; quality can stay consistent; and competitors don't have to worry about their copyrights going awry.

 

So, best guess on what's actually restricting doll quantities?

- Volks doesn't have, or isn't willing to commit, a large amount of capital to fund manufacturing (again they're a very small company, they say they only have 98 million yen -- less than $1 million USD -- in capital)

- Volks' preferred manufacturer is super-busy with other clients and can't offer them very much time on the production lines

- A licensing agreement is super-expensive and represents a small profit to Volks; they're doing it mostly to increase brand awareness or as a pet project and not as a significant revenue stream

- They expect low sales and prefer to have "too few" quantity (and sell out completely) than "too much" (and end up with unsold stock)

- The licensor put a cap on the number of units Volks could sell (not common but it does happen if a licensor is concerned about a product being "exclusive")

Edited July 13, 2016 by Guest

Wow thank you Cauldroness that was a very informative post.

With the idolmaster range the licence might be cheap while Bandai ponies up a lot of the manufacturing costs while only seeking a small percentage of the profits along with their investment returned? I dunno but I assume the terms are good due to all the Idolmaster dolls they've made.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, the reason they keep making Idolmaster dolls is because Bandai wants it.

 

Licensors almost never "split" manufacturing costs with licensees -- licensors (license holders) are the ones getting paid not paying so they generally could care less how expensive manufacturing is so long as they get their royalties. The idea that a licensor wanting "to pay less" would impact how many hours are spent manufacturing doesn't make sense because they're usually not paying anything at all!

Usually yes, but some DDs exist simply because the licensor wants them. In Volks situation, they get to pick between easy licenses to manufacture and difficult ones, so it comes down to what Volks' most profitable choice is. If the licensor is willing to pitch in and reduce the cost for producing a product (Idolmaster), then they win.

 

I'm not saying that Bandai foots the entire bill for producing the dolls, that's stupid. I'm saying that they give Volks enough incentive to dominate their production capacity for a period of time over other licensees. Overall, the licensor gets a profit per doll sold, which is related to the license fee. How much Volks produces is based on how much they think it will sell and how much capital it will take. If a licensor wants to release the product in a timely fashion (Yaya, Sinon, Alisa, Mio & Uzuki) they're either manufactured very far in advance so they can be released when needed (head sculpt numbers might reveal that) or the licensor is willing to pay something to make it a priority for Volks.

 

But for pre-order projects, I don't see what's in it for Volks to take on such a huge risk, and spend so much money to manufacture items up front. It can simply be that the licensor says, ok, we'll agree to terms for helping to produce the first delivery, after that we get more of the profit.

 

- Volks doesn't have, or isn't willing to commit, a large amount of capital to fund manufacturing (again they're a very small company, they say they only have 98 million yen -- less than $1 million USD -- in capital)

Volks did create a very large manufacturing capacity for Miku; that pre-order project was massive and went off without a hitch. They either did that because they wanted to expand their total manufacturing capacity when they're done with Miku, or... I'm not sure but they re-used it for Snow Miku at least. I thought they'd keep using it to pump out Vocaloids and keep doing simultaneous pre-order projects because Crypton paid for the capacity. The question is if they actually reduced production capacity after Snow Miku.

 

What I'm describing is,

 

• For limiteds, the number of dolls produced is dependant on the quality of the fullset (how difficult it is) and the license cost. These are things the licensor controls.
  
• They need money to produce anything. If they have less than $1 million in the bank, that's not what they use.
  
• They key focus for Volks is the revenue generated per time spent producing dolls. To maximize profit, you want to manufacture as much as you can (which also includes limitations on processing orders and shipping) and have a consistent (and hopefully high) profit per time spent. Most limited dolls are sold at around ~¥60000; that includes items that are fast to produce (high quantities) or slow to produce (low quantities). The profit ratio per production time stays the same for either type of product so they can sell it at the target price. Again, the licensor gets to control this.
  
• Volks gets to choose from licensees. This allows them to prioritize how much production time they're willing to associate with a limited run. If a licensor wants more visibility or product timing, they can make the choice easier for Volks. A small fry may not get Volks' attention even if they make the license free; Volks would rather do their own products like the After School Akihabara girls.
  
• Yes, whoever Volks uses to manufacture stuff is a company that they've always used, but it doesn't change anything. A company that has equipment pumping out vinyl doll parts will want to use that equipment as much as they can; if Volks is the only customer they can use it as much as they want if the profit per unit is high enough for the manufacturer to care. Considering how much a base body costs, and how many DDs Volks sells, that's probably not an issue. How much they're willing to expand their facilities for Volks is an issue though; this is the limit of Volks' production capacity.
  
• Pre-order runs would require capital to start production. Volks only makes money when they deliver the product to the customer; unless they have a fat bank account that allows them to spend 10 months producing product without getting paid, they will have to work with a licensor that's willing to share the cost, and allow a return on investment for the licensor and Volks. The quantity for producing the first product shipment (I'm guessing here, because it's associated with revenue amount) could be the baseline for recouping costs. The pre-order run is expected to sell much more than that number, which allows the licensor and Volks to get a return on their investment and profit.

 

Before when I wrote that the licensor "pays for" stuff, I expect them to recoup the costs on products sold as an overall profit for the licensor. Their portion of the revenue per doll ends up being the cost that Volks pays for the license. If a licensor isn't willing to put money down Volks can go to another that does, or do one of their own dolls. So when I wrote

 

When a doll gets only a tiny release from a lotto, it's probably because the rights holder was only willing to pay for 2 days of manufacturing or something

 

That means Volks made product for a Dolpa that took two days to manufacture because that's how much they were able to work out for the license holder. The alternative is that Volks has a fluctuating bank account balance whenever they do production. That's not likely, I only expect them to do that with their own products (base bodies and stuff).

Wait, do you really think a company like Bandai -- who makes $5.4 BILLION dollars in sales every year -- is seriously invested in whatever teeny amount of royalties they get from Volks' DD releases? Enough that they'd be willing to give Volks money (literally the OPPOSITE of how licensing agreements work) to get their dolls made, because they're... So profitable for Bandai? So essential to Bandai's sales and marketing strategy? So necessary for Bandai's Idolmaster property? Bandai really wants them that badly?

 

None of that makes sense.

 

Volks makes Idolmaster dolls because they have a license (they probably licensed the entire Idolmaster franchise up front, so they don't have to negotiate a new licensing agreement for each doll -- they're probably all covered under a single agreement) and because it's profitable to Volks. Sure, Bandai is probably happy that they're being made, but Volks entire annual sales (across ALL product lines, resin dolls, DDs, figures, etc.) is equivalent to only 1.2% of Bandai's sales. If anyone is offering an incentive, it's Volks offering one to Bandai so they can keep cranking out profitable Idolmaster releases, not the other way around.

 

But now I see that we're arguing from different starting points -- you think Volks is a key player that other companies are actively seeking out; I think they're a tiny bit player begging other companies for their licenses.

 

Right now, I work for a company that makes $83 million in annual sales (more than TEN TIMES what Volks makes) and has a worldwide customer base of 2+ million. And we're tiny. Insignificant. No one cares about us except us. We're the ones chasing partners, begging for agreements, bending over backwards to get bigger properties to let us play in their sandboxes. No one would offer us a license for free, or pay us to enter a licensing agreement. The idea that Volks is sitting there choosing from a bunch of different licenses (or that bigger companies are competing for their attention to the point of paying them for a licensing agreement) is laughable to me because they're even smaller than we are, and I know -- in the grand scheme of things -- we're just bit players, and Volks is even more of a bit player than we are.

Wait, do you really think a company like Bandai -- who makes $5.4 BILLION dollars in sales every year -- is seriously invested in whatever teeny amount of royalties they get from Volks' DD releases?

By that logic, no anime would ever be made. Anime are always purely for marketing purposes to sell another more profitable product, usually light novels and manga (yes, the IP holder funds an anime to sell more manga). An anime only profits if the BDs sell well, which is usually used to justify another season of anime. Anime isn't funded by television advertising, that's why they have new shows every season, and why anime airs after midnight. The license holder pays for the anime to market their core product, which is the opposite of how television works in North America.

 

So yes, funding production of dolls or anime for the purpose marketing a core product is the way business works in Japan. This is why DDs all have anime/manga/VN origins.

 

Volks makes Idolmaster dolls because they have a license (they probably licensed the entire Idolmaster franchise up front, so they don't have to negotiate a new licensing agreement for each doll -- they're probably all covered under a single agreement) and because it's profitable to Volks.

That's probably true.

 

If anyone is offering an incentive, it's Volks offering one to Bandai so they can keep cranking out profitable Idolmaster releases, not the other way around.

The Idolmaster dolls wouldn't sell for years on end unless Bandai is also selling Idolmaster stuff. Idolmaster is a core property for Bandai.

 

But now I see that we're arguing from different starting points -- you think Volks is a key player that other companies are actively seeking out; I think they're a tiny bit player begging other companies for their licenses.

Actually I don't. Volks makes products for a niche market with a high income demographic. That's the marketing proposition they have for IP holders. They're customers that are more likely to buy into multiple parts of the media mix at once. That's why limiteds need to be timely.

But anime isn't a good analogy for a licensing agreement... Apples and oranges, imho.

 

It's a super-complicated process, but if you boil it down to the simplest form, anime works like this:

Group A (your anime production committee) contracts Group B (your anime studio) to make a product (anime) to support Group A's interests (TV studio needing something to fill air time, manga or light novel company looking to boost sales, advertisers looking to place in-show ads, music companies looking to sell CDs). Group A provides initial funds to get production started, but doesn't get money back from Group B even if the anime sells exceptionally well. This is more like a company hiring an advertising agency to make them some nice ads to sell their core product (and quite unlike a licensing agreement), and it works because anime is free to the consumer and thus a great strategy for luring new customers (since they have to make no investment other than time).

 

(Also, "an anime only profits if the BDs sell well" is untrue -- they also make money via licensing deals, by licensing the show for international distribution or licensing the anime designs for figure companies [like when Volks pays for an anime design to use for a DD!].)

 

The comparison only works if you assume that Volks Idolmaster DDs somehow help sell a significant number of Idolmaster games, despite costing the consumer multiple times the cost of a single game. In all likelihood, the buyers of the Volks Idolmaster DDs probably fall into two main categories: people who are already Idolmaster fans and already purchasing Idolmaster merchandise, and doll collectors who are primarily interested in dolls and are less likely to purchase Idolmaster merchandise that isn't doll-related. Here, the DDs are not free to the consumer -- they require a huge investment, likely one only made by an already-committed consumer. It's a poor strategy for luring new customers.

 

I'm still convinced it's a simple licensing agreement:

- Volks approaches a company like Bandai that owns a popular property like Idolmaster and offers to pay them in exchange for the right to produce dolls in that property (the licensing agreement)

- Bandai agrees because, hey, they can profit with very little effort involved (via the royalties) and it keeps their current fans engaged in the property (via new merchandise to buy)

- Volks pays Bandai royalties for the license (usually a large chunk of royalties are paid upfront), and pays a manufacturer to produce the dolls (Bandai pays nothing)

- Volks only does $6.7 million in sales and has nearly $1 million in the bank -- that's plenty to fund their manufacturing needs given the size of their operations (so they don't need an additional source of income to fund manufacturing, even for big pre-order projects where they don't get their money until the very end)

- Volks sells the dolls directly to consumer, and makes their profit from that sale -- which is used to fund future projects

 

Why would Volks do this? Because an Idolmaster license means they can sell to the Idolmaster fanbase: the license comes with a clearly identified customer group for them to sell to, one that's already been advertised and cultivated and is known to buy products. Same reason why Hasbro fought so hard for the Disney princess license.

 

Now, maybe a company really wants a DD for some reason. There are lots of ways secure a licensing deal without paying Volks: they can offer really low royalty fees, waive any requirement for upfront royalty fees (collecting only after sales are completed), promise to invest money in brand marketing (feature the doll on their website or at their events), provide exclusive rights, etc.

 

The only scenario in which I can see a company actually paying Volks to manufacture dolls if is that company was also doing direct sales of those dolls. Since we've not seen DDs sold through a venue other than Volks (that I can remember), I think this is unlikely.

I just remembered that Danny is doing Love Live girls (at least Miho to begin with, preorder in Oct. I think...no limits) as SmDolls. I doubt that they would give the license to them both.

 

 

Actually, Miho is from Girls Und Panzer, not LL. So, Love Live is still possible (I'd honestly like a Nozomi first, or a Kotori.)

Oh, duh! I knew that. I don't know how or why I got them mixed up. I think because my friend and I had been talking about the possibilities of LL dolls and how great that would be.

 

Anyway, thanks for the correction. I need to read what I write once I wake up.

 

Nozomi and Kotori would be my favorites, too.

 

I would DIE for a Kotori DD oh my gosh. I just started watching Love Live and Idolmaster Cinderella Project. GIVE ME THE IDOLS!!

 

If it's another Miku I won't necessarily complain, I guess? But if it was a CCS doll that would just be my luck because I would absolutely die for Sakura too. Now that I've read this thread I'll be really disappointed if it isn't Sakura and Syaoran lol

 

(I'm still gunna quietly hope for a Kaori from Shigatsu even though it isn't very likely. Wehh)

I would die for a Sakura and Sayoran as a MDD preorder - have they ever done a MDD preorder?

 

But CCSakura isn't a show for older prevy men (ok that's generalizing, so if you're off the opposite sex don't take that too personal ;D). Just all the female targeted shows seem to just go via the resin route.. but then again Belldandy was from a series very clearly for men, and it was a resin doll - so. Well, I don't know anymore lol.

 

With it being the anniversary of CCSakura and the new story arc coming out, it would be very very timely... I would be sold in a heartbeat.

It's a super-complicated process, but if you boil it down to the simplest form, anime works like this:

Group A (your anime production committee) contracts Group B (your anime studio) to make a product (anime) to support Group A's interests (TV studio needing something to fill air time, manga or light novel company looking to boost sales, advertisers looking to place in-show ads, music companies looking to sell CDs).

 

I don't get it, who pays for the anime? How does an anime sell? Anime is not a profit-based product. This is not the American entertainment industry.

 

an anime only profits if the BDs sell well" is untrue -- they also make money via licensing deals, by licensing the show for international distribution or licensing the anime designs for figure companies [like when Volks pays for an anime design to use for a DD!

The "anime" doesn't make licensing deals. A-1 Pictures and Shaft don't make licensing deals. Kadokawa and Kodansha, the IP holders, make the licensing deals. International distribution isn't a focus for Japanese companies, something we've beaten to death here. Bandai shut down their American operations because the Japanese corporation didn't see the point, they're happy with Americans importing BDs if they want it, they make more money that way. FYI, a single BD contains two episodes and costs about ¥7000. So if a BD made a profit for an anime series, consumers spent a LOT of money on it (note: a doll is a relatively small price to pay for an anime fan). Again, that's why Bandai's US operations selling a whole season of an anime for $50, which people here consider overpriced, was just pointless for them. The American model won't work there, the Japanese model won't work here.

 

The comparison only works if you assume that Volks Idolmaster DDs somehow help sell a significant number of Idolmaster games, despite costing the consumer multiple times the cost of a single game.

Idolmaster is a media franchise. It sells video games, arcade games, card games, books, music, anime and figures. They're going to keep producing new Idolmaster series, and keep pumping out merchandise on all fronts as long as they can. They make money on all that merchandise. That includes dolls. This is how they make their money, consumers buying stuff. Volks' customers are very attractive to property holders because they pour money into a franchise.

 

The Xenosaga games completely flopped but Namco Bandai kept the merchandising game going for years because they were making money off of it; it's how they recouped the costs for the thing. That includes the pre-order project for the dolls. The only reason Bandai did the Xenosaga DD project was because they wanted to profit off of the Xenosaga franchise while it was still relevant. They probably wouldn't have profited from a limited production run. Bandai had no other way to make money off of Xenosaga than to create merchandise.

 

DDs are not free to the consumer -- they require a huge investment, likely one only made by an already-committed consumer. It's a poor strategy for luring new customers.

That's how merchandising works in Japan. You have a property, and you make as many products as you can from it while it's hot. A property holder doesn't just sit back and expect that their property is more popular than all the others and companies will come to them to asking to make merchandise. Unbreakable Machine Doll is an example; they did a merchandising blitz at the end of 2013 with an anime, a DD, a bunch of figures, trinkets, tons of stuff, and once all that was done there hasn't been a single bit of merchandising since, other than some art books. The only thing that's being sold still are novels, with the most recent published Sept 2015. Sword Art Online however has had a constant stream of products since the anime ended including things like keychains, and a movie is coming out next year. They're not done merchandising that one yet.

 

I'm still convinced it's a simple licensing agreement:

- Volks approaches a company like Bandai that owns a popular property like Idolmaster and offers to pay them in exchange for the right to produce dolls in that property (the licensing agreement)

- Bandai agrees because, hey, they can profit with very little effort involved (via the royalties) and it keeps their current fans engaged in the property (via new merchandise to buy)

- Volks pays Bandai royalties for the license (usually a large chunk of royalties are paid upfront), and pays a manufacturer to produce the dolls (Bandai pays nothing)'

That's a perfectly American way to do business.

 

I'm done arguing about this. This isn't the American industry, and Volks isn't an American company. Something that's repeated often over and over on this forum, why Volks only cares about their Japanese customers. It's because their entire business is built around it, and has been for decades.

 

Also, Volks' annual sales was $50 million as of 2008. Their web site states that their annual turnover is 7 billion yen, which is about 66 million USD.

Obviously we're just not going to see eye-to-eye on this one, since what you're saying doesn't jive with what I've read/experienced and obviously what I'm saying doesn't jive with what you've read/experienced, and we're running quiiiiite off topic at this point (and honestly it could go on until Volks actually does announce the pre-order doll!).

 

Plus, I think all we're really disagreeing on is who pays for manufacturing, and whether the licensors are actually paying Volks or not. Two questions we'll never answer 100% unless we can shake down a Volks accountant!

 

Everything else we're in the same ballpark although maybe not on the same base: We agree that both companies make profit off the deal, that it's in both companies best interests, that both companies probably have some degree in say in how a doll is sold (lotto vs pre-order), that Volks really only cares about their Japanese market; and that Volks is unlikely to change any of their practices anytime soon, as much as that might disappoint their international fans (though I'll be eternally baffled why their resin division is so US-friendly while their DD division is so... not).

 

(You're also right that companies probably do shop their properties to Volks, I said that earlier that sometimes it's the licensee who approaches and sometimes it's the licensor, in an attempt to simplify my last post I mis-stated this item. I do believe it's both Volks soliciting and Volks being solicited, depending on the property.)

 

Also, Volks' annual sales was $50 million as of 2008. Their web site states that their annual turnover is 7 billion yen, which is about 66 million USD.

 

This is my mistake, they wrote out "billion" and I had to guess which of the "billions" they used since the term doesn't mean the same thing in all places (or I just lost one of the many, many zeroes).

 

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Back to the "Who could the mystery doll (or dolls) be?" topic:

- Volks has never done an MDD pre-order and I'd be really surprised if they did. They don't seem to like MDD much since she's had very few releases? But they did just do Arle so maybe!

- I somehow suspect it's only one doll... I feel like Volks would have said something like "guess one of the two dolls" or something in their contest if it was two?

- I desperately hope it's a new property (not Vocaloid, not Type-Moon, etc.) but I won't be shocked if it's not

Plus, I think all we're really disagreeing on is who pays for manufacturing

Agreed

 

though I'll be eternally baffled why their resin division is so US-friendly while their DD division is so... not

I think part of it is that SDs aren't really Japanese, like the anime-themed DDs are. That should increase the potential market of people interested in the products with build-to-order FCS dolls. If they can't grow that business, uh....

 

I don't know what Volks USA could do for DDs other than doing a better job regurgitating whatever Volks Japan sells and keeping stock of parts. At least looking at the Volks USA site right now, all the base bodies and almost all the heads are in stock but the Japanese site... hey look, even the MDD3 semi-white base body is in stock (low stock) at Volks International.

 

This is crazy, almost everything's in stock at Volks International right now, even all white skin body parts and heads (basic normal skin hands? of course not). I feel like a loser for not needing anything.

 

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I REALLY think the pre-order will include a DDS Boy. I also think I might be wrong.

Are they plan to announce the pre order DD's right on DD Fes on this saturday?

They havent said - that could just be when the guessing entries close. It would make more sense to unveil the new doll at Dollpa in 2 weeks but you never know, they could show it earlier. I'll be very surprised if they dont have one on display at Nagoya Dollpa though. Unless they plan to keep it quiet until the Dollpa in December, although that's cutting it pretty fine for this years preorder.

I think Cauldroness gave the best explanation on how it works. My own initial view is that Volks covers 100% of the manufacturing and then just pays the licence fees either as a fixed amount or a percentage of the sales. (maybe even a mix) My other half here was saying that for companies it's very prestigious to have a dollfie dream made of one of your characters so there is maybe a motivation to pay some of the manufacturing costs but if they're just going to get them back it wouldn't really make sense why they would pay in the first place especially as Volks aims to nearly always sell out on release.

 

The quantities of dolls I think are dependant on how many they can manufacture in the time as it can take ages to make the dolls and how popular they think the doll will be. I assume they make about 1000 DD's per doll for each lottery event give or take a hundred. With Miku it was probably about 3000 of them. The quantities are really not as big as some people might think as the hobby is very niche.

 

Just even look on facebook at the dollfie dream page and it's about 7,500 people worldwide that have liked it and that would include people with casual interests and people that no longer follow the hobby so we can assume there's just a few thousand active collectors outside Japan and lots of them would be happy with just one or two dolls. A lot of people in Asia don't use facebook so there would be more but I still think it would only be a few thousand.

 

Anyway I don't want to get too much off topic here so maybe back to what people think is the pre-order project?

I had a dream yesterday that they announced it and there were two girls and a boy from a series I wasn't familiar with, but the boy was wearing a stylized blue military outfit even though he was young.

 

That's of course not at all likely. There's no way they'd run three dolls, and the boy is maybe wishful thinking...

I had a dream yesterday that they announced it and there were two girls and a boy from a series I wasn't familiar with, but the boy was wearing a stylized blue military outfit even though he was young.

 

That's of course not at all likely. There's no way they'd run three dolls, and the boy is maybe wishful thinking...

I'll be watching to see if those three show up!!

 

Linda S.

galatia9

I doubt they'd do the MDD ver. but if they did CCS....does anyone else think it'd be amazing if they did a pre-order outfit of Sakura's Inline skates/Rollerblades set? o3o

 

I keep seeing a cute Sakura. I totally expect it not to be but because I'm rewatching the show I can't help but think about it.

....does anyone else think it'd be amazing if they did a pre-order outfit of Sakura's Inline skates/Rollerblades set? o3o

You mean this one?

I'd rather have her in one of these 2 outfits, wanting the white one more.

I meant as a secondary thing. That's why I phrased as a "pre-order outfit." Not default outfit.

 

They often release multiple outfits (Macross girls is a good example). So, why not have it if we get it as a secondary? I like the fact it's different and you could pair it up with her school uni, which is so adorable!

 

I feel like it is safe to say if they did her it is kinda obvious they'd do one of her magical girl looks. That's the the look that sells the most.

I meant as a secondary thing. That's why I phrased as a "pre-order outfit." Not default outfit.

 

They often release multiple outfits (Macross girls is a good example). So, why not have it if we get it as a secondary? I like the fact it's different and you could pair it up with her school uni, which is so adorable!

 

I feel like it is safe to say if they did her it is kinda obvious they'd do one of her magical girl looks. That's the the look that sells the most.

 

The outfit options would be fantastic for Sakura, she has so many cute ones. Even her casual outfits in the show are great

 

The possibility of a plush kero! I'd die.