Are aftermarket sellers becoming a little unrealistic?

Now like all good discussions, before I start with my discussion point... let's lay out all the stipulations so no takes immediate offense (hopefully!).

 

When I make this subject statement, I am not referring to any one individual. This has become a steady trend over the past couple of Dolpas/year.

 

Ok so the Lottery rules changed at Volks recently which might have caused this upswing, but I've noticed with some girls that their after market has just been astronomical on either forums, ebay, individual sellers etc.

 

I am not talking about YJA (yet there are sellers on there that do exist). on YJA in general the aftermarket usually raises a price of a doll about 300-400 or so more than the original MSRP. So it's easy to use that as a benchmark to help determine price because that's the core market that *really* loves that hobby and determines the price collectively.

 

What I've noticed are Ebay sellers residing within Tokyo have their prices set 400+ *more* than the average YJA price. So a doll averages for 800$ on YJA, they are asking for 1200$ if not more and *not* willing to budge in the slightest on that price. (are those sellers dropshipping perhaps?)

 

Same can be said of individual sellers for certain dolls. For example, at AX someone won Sasara and put it up on ebay for almost 3k, even though on average her current sale price (someone correct me if I'm off base) is about half that on YJA.

 

No amount of proxy/shipping fees would equate to that kind of a markup, so I wonder... where do people get the idea on those kind of prices?

 

Has this hobby garnered a reputation that we as a group just spend money too easily and earned the stigma that these extra high prices are acceptable and encouraged?

 

Or do you think it's a factor of a lot of things such as decreased availability, increase in popularity of the hobby, or mindset of collectors? Or are we in the midst of a market fluctuation that eventually will settle out?

 

In no way am I trying to tout the idea of "OMG how dare these people sell these dolls for that high, that's not fair they should go to real fans of the hobby for less"... that's not how economics works. And I get it (even though I dislike it lol)

 

But I've noticed girls have been kind of restricted in the aftermarket because people are withholding them at the super high price that seems to kind of never be achieved? Which maybe in time after another year or two the prices will level out.. but I've been hunting around for a few girls lately and talked with ebay sellers and indie sellers and their price point vs what is current to YJA's price point confuses me. Indie sellers might have custom fees and other issues that factor in, but mathematically it still seems skewed.

 

Am I alone in this idea or is all same old same old of this hobby and I'm now at a breaking point? XD

And again no, I'm not referring to any one individual - this just seems like a common issue I've encountered while trying to amass my plastic army of cuteness.

(Hi :3 I'm still new-ish here so I hope I'm doing this right and not totally missing the point...).

 

I think aftermarket prices have been silly for a long time, but recently the things I've seen like selling dolls BEFORE they're actually released just boggles me!

 

I can understand a certain amount of markup to cover currency exchange fluctuations, travel expenses, and auction selling fees, but I also wonder about the dolls that are on auctions for like $3k and are there for years. Why doesn't the seller ever decrease the price after so many years I wonder? Because even if it did eventually sell, the amount of time it took for them to sell that is maybe like $1/day or less? I guess any passive income is good income, but to me it just doesn't seem worth the time to keep up with relisting and such. Not to mention the space in house required to store dolls for so long.

 

I'm not sure I have room to speak since I'm not in many hobbies besides doll hobby but I'm sure it's not restricted to this. Wherever there's an issue of supply v demand, there's gonna be people buying up stuff to make a quick buck off of people who really want it. Even to the point of head-scratching prices.

I too think that aftermarket prices have become extremely unrealistic. I understand maybe a couple of hundreds of dollars, but to practically double the price in an already expensive hobby seems unfair. Like many others on this forum, I love what I see from this hobby and would love to join it, but things like this are just one of the factors working against us.

I'm not sure that I understand what you're seeing.

 

Are you observing that the eBay price doesn't equal the YJA price? That's true, and it probably won't, because selling on eBay is ungodly expensive for things like dolls. With eBay fee (10%) + PayPal fee (3%) + PayPal USD->JPY conversion fee (~2%) + allowance for exchange rate fluctuation + compensation for extra risk because eBay is unfairly biased toward buyers in disputes... then indeed, that can add up to a $400 premium for the same doll because of all the extra fees, risks, and hassles.

 

Are you observing that aftermarket doll prices are high in comparison to the dolls' already spendy retail price? Sure, that's true, but it's been so for a long time as I'm sure you know. Although, it's actually better (for buyers) lately in that many historically-expensive dolls like Sasara and blue Saber can be had for hundreds to a thousand bucks less than before, thanks to a softening of the Japanese market for them plus the better exchange rate.

 

Are you observing that the aftermarket price leaps up more than you think it should immediately after the doll is released? My suspicion is that when we were at a Y80 exchange rate, overseas people got used to buying a doll at 60,000 yen ($750) and then reselling it at the equivalent of 100,000 yen ($1250), for a profit of $500. Now that the exchange rate "tanked" from a seller's perspective, all that currency conversion leverage is going the other direction. The same 60K-100K transaction at a Y120 rate, if we let the Japanese marketplace set prices (buy at $500, sell at $833), only leads to a profit of $333 today. I think sellers want the old profit margins they used to get, so they want to buy at $500 and sell at $1000. Maybe that's what you're seeing in the forums/eBay marketplaces?

This is happening not just with the DD dolls, but in several hobbies I'm in. I think people are over valuing things. I think it also has to do a lot with the buying power of money, it seems overall, you can't get as much as you used to with the same amount.

I think the market has alot to do with the high mark ups.

 

Look at these two custom DDH-01 heads on YJA by the same guy.. nearly identical, sold only two weeks apart. One sold for 3 times as much, @56,000 YEN and 17,000YEN..

 

 

 

http://page23.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/o149423576

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g183740134

This is happening not just with the DD dolls, but in several hobbies I'm in. I think people are over valuing things. I think it also has to do a lot with the buying power of money, it seems overall, you can't get as much as you used to with the same amount.

 

Agreed. I've seen it with the resin dolls too as well as in other totally unrelated hobbies.

Has this hobby garnered a reputation that we as a group just spend money too easily and earned the stigma that these extra high prices are acceptable and encouraged?

 

Have to bump in here because when I was first looking into DDs I always felt everything was more expensive compared to BJDs.

And BJDs are not cheap either.

But as soon as something got the DD label it suddenly was more expensive, even if it was something as simple as a shirt or a standard looking wig.

I see that even on Taobao, the clothes made for DD are more expensive there too!

 

However, I agree with the others who said that things are over-valued nowadays.

Both by people IN the hobby (sorry, good ol' times are over, with more options the existing ones tend to be worth less) and OUT of the hobby.

The latter see how popular a hobby is, assumes that people are totally crazy and then hope for some to bite the bait.

The people on ebay who ask crazy prices know that they won't sell the doll fast.

But they are waiting for a poor soul who has no clue, too much money and REALLY wants that Dollfie Dream.

This is usually the case with first time buyers and people who aren't part of the community.

They don't know that this doll cost less, because it's probably the only place they know.

 

Prices on ebay are, and never were, realistic compared to community prices or other vendors (like Mandarake).

However, Mandarake got more and more expensive too, especially since more people from outside of Japan started buying from them :/

 

 

Megumin's example made me chuckle though.

It's really hard to determine how much something will go for...buyers can be weird

I think if you're thinking the price isn't right then don't buy it. Thing is the price is like that because there existed the demand for such a thing.

 

Look at it this way, a Supreme tee shirt can go up to $400 when they are no different other than the graphic to a regular $4.99 Hanes tee.

The people on ebay who ask crazy prices know that they won't sell the doll fast.

But they are waiting for a poor soul who has no clue, too much money and REALLY wants that Dollfie Dream.

This is usually the case with first time buyers and people who aren't part of the community.

 

That's very true. The two pieces of information that most first-time buyers don't have are the market rate of their Dollfie, and where to buy them. That, together with the impulse to get their first doll, is a recipe for getting price-gouged.

 

Not long ago, when I was searching for my first Dollfie (Kos-mos), eBay was the first place I went to and the cheapest listing there was about $1400 USD. Luckily, I had experience with proxy shopping from Japan before, and I eventually found one on Yahoo Auctions for about 80k yen. I can see how I could have paid hundreds more if I had not been patient and done my research.

I can see what your saying as I wanted an outfit and it wsa sold out on volks the day it came out. IT was like 80 dollars on volks website then like 180 dollars on ebay.

I think you're right about the unrealistic feel lately with the aftermarket DD's. I'm seeing this with resin dolls as well.

In particular I'm seeing this price gouging more from the typical vultures of any hobby aka scalpers. They seem even more desperate to scam someone than ever as their prices have become beyond bonkers.

I also partly blame Volks for the way they run limited events too as it's biased towards their Asian market rather than thinking about the rest of the world. Therefore you get even more scalpers, from this practice, hoping to make quick or passive money from international collectors who know they could never buy these things directly from Volks or attend one of their parties in Japan physically. I think it's such a shame too since the company has so much potential to be more welcoming to international fans, but again this is only my opinion. I could drone on and on of how much I lament lotteries in general too.

As far as European and North American DD sellers (that I've observed myself) within DOA, this DD forum and elsewhere I think they're far more reasonable in pricing and are willing to work with a potential buyer as they truly want to see the doll passed on to someone who can care for it, or whatever the reason may be. Most are not motivated in scamming fellow collectors and I appreciate that.

here's the thing about scalping.

 

Scalpers will set the price at what they believe to be slightly less than insanity in their minds. The 99.9% of the rest of the world, it's insanity, so nobody buys it.

 

All it takes is 1 person with more money than sense for scalpers to validate their own existence. Once they set a high price and some idiot with deep pockets just snatches it up, well that just tells the scalper that they didn't set the price high enough if it sold quickly. So the idiots with more money than sense will keep driving the price further away from sanity because for them, they really have no idea what things are worth. There's nothing we can really do about this as not supporting scalpers/scalper businesses won't affect that .1% of people that have that kind of money.

 

Furthermore on exchange rates: Find a credit card to use with paypal (or any online shopping overseas) find a card that has zero foreign transaction fees.

 

For those of us in canada, you can get the amazon.ca rewards visa. The exchange rate on this card is very close to market rates. Meaning what you see converted on xe.com the day the transaction will go through is going to be pretty much exactly what the exchange rate will be. If you are on paypal, you use this card plus you tell paypal to let the card do the currency conversion. A standard card will probably charge 2-3% of the purchase price in your home currency. Paypal I think is around that as well, though I think sometimes paypal can be cheaper. It doesn't help that so many goods are being made in asia, so the exchange rates are going to be bad when the economy slows down.

I unfortunately have many hobbies, mainly reading, video games, scuba, (one that I will not mention since it might make some uncomfortable), robotics, and anything I can build (legos, mecha models, papercraft, etc), and -of course- almost all forms of doll collecting.

 

Out of these, the only one I have seen a major price hike the last year and a half is dolls. I collect anime style (SmartDoll, DDs, Pullips), resin BJDs, soft-sculpture cloth, clay-sculpt, indie, play dolls (like American Girl and Monster High), antiqued, Disney LE, and even some porcelain and traditional vinyl.

Out of the dolls I collect, the only ones I have seen an astronomical price hike is the anime style. Some BJD brands have recently had aftermarket price increases, but most BJDs that I have seen stay close to their original price (or lower) if used. Only time they are more is if the brand no longer exists, the doll was a limited run, or it is a popular doll-type; and even then the price increase is not over $200.

Anime style dolls are much different. SmartDoll is staying around original market value in aftermarket, but Pullips, Blythes, Dollfie Dreams, and another type I forget the name of right now have skyrocketed. Like the author was saying, I have seen some DDs being sold on Ebay for double the original price. Even base models and blank bodies are going for more than they should.

 

I really hope this does not become the norm. Yes, I with spend a pretty penny on my girls and boys, but I have a limit that I will not cross.

I really hope this does not become the norm.

Unfortunately astronomic overpricing is the norm. When I got into dolls about 10 years ago I was astonished at the asking prices for dolls on ebay and other secondary market sellers, especially since many of these same dolls were still available from their manufacturers at original retail. There has been a reseller on Yahoo Japan Auctions trying to sell a Smart Doll with the original full set clothes at a starting price of 100,000yen. That's about 40,000yen over retail for a doll that can still be bought from the original source.

 

Dolls, with the exception of a few mass market brands, is one of those commodities the resale vultures have latched on to, knowing there is a lot of money to be made from desperate collectors. As long as there are limited runs there will be ridiculous aftermarket prices.

(sorry if this has been mentioned before, i read most of the posts but not all of them u_u )

I think a problem that 'helps' keep the aftermarket prices high in most cases in comparison to...for example, BJDs, is how many -more- BJDs are available at all price ranges. There are so many companies and artists who make resin dolls, that the aftermarket prices are low...although I think, because of this, the aftermarket is horrible in the opposite way. You can have a LE10 doll from a decently well known company not even sell at company price, rofl...FeelsBadMan.

On the other hand, DD-like dolls...are very limited. There was only Volks making them till Danny Choo, so now we have Danny Choo and Volks ^ ^; I think VMF dolls are more semi-realistic oriented and Azone don't have changeable eyes and hair, so they're a bit different. There are a couple resin companies too, but they're also very few (I can only think of SQlab and 2D right at the top of my head) and still different to vinyl ones...

I thought I might get a snippet of advice here. I'm very new and I was wondering if Mandrake is classed as an aftermarket seller? There is something I would like but I can't tell if it's a decent price or not. Is Mandrake one of the stores you can count on for having reasonably priced items?

 

http://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/detailPage/item?itemCode=1034878324&ref=dos

I thought I might get a snippet of advice here. I'm very new and I was wondering if Mandrake is classed as an aftermarket seller? There is something I would like but I can't tell if it's a decent price or not. Is Mandrake one of the stores you can count on for having reasonably priced items?

 

http://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/detailPage/item?itemCode=1034878324&ref=dos

I find most DD stuff on Mandarake to be rather expensive. For example, you might find v2 Rin Tohsaka for $8-950 on the forums or YJA, but on Mandarake she's 120k yen. Sometimes you can find acceptable prices, usually if the doll has some damage or missing items.

I'm very new and I was wondering if Mandrake is classed as an aftermarket seller? There is something I would like but I can't tell if it's a decent price or not. Is Mandrake one of the stores you can count on for having reasonably priced items?

I was under the impression (and I could be wrong) that Mandarake was a consignment shop, mostly because their prices seem to be all over the place. Two identical dolls can be on sale with one priced at 60,000yen and the other at 24,000yen. It doesn't seem to me they have one person or office judging market value and setting prices, unless it's done independently at each brick and mortar store.

 

Also some doll makers have Mandarake sell their dolls new for retail price. The dolls I'm familiar with that are sometimes sold that way are the Visuadolls, another Obitsu based vinyl doll series.

-stares woefully at the outfit, conflicted about buying it or not-

-stares woefully at the outfit, conflicted about buying it or not-

 

buy it!! my lovely Arturia has the blue plaid (oh wait, u saw that) and it's one of my absolute fav Volks outfit sets! All those pieces can be mixed and matched with everything, and the boots.. oooh man, those boots *__*♥♥

I was under the impression (and I could be wrong) that Mandarake was a consignment shop, mostly because their prices seem to be all over the place. Two identical dolls can be on sale with one priced at 60,000yen and the other at 24,000yen. It doesn't seem to me they have one person or office judging market value and setting prices, unless it's done independently at each brick and mortar store.

 

Hmm, I don't think that's the case at all. When I was over there back in 2010, my buddy was all about taking me to Mandarake stores ( not like I *wasn't* going to find some anyways ) but his description of how they did things was that they buy used and new items to resell kind of like Second and Charles here in the states does. Basically you bring in items, they look them up on ebay, yahoo japan and other online sales areas.... see what the going sales rates are and then make offers based on that.

 

Prices are kind of odd at times tho and I think that might be due to them seeing what sales are doing at other stores or Yahoo auctions, which aren't always listed properly and end at lower than market pricing. Hell, a Mandarake had an original Saber DD in a showcase years back priced at 20,000 yen. A friend of mine saw it but his buddy was too quick and snapped it up right in front of him. LOL Needless to say, they left off a zero on that price but there was nothing the store would do since it was tagged at that price. So screw-ups do occur on some things, it's just not too often.

 

But you are correct that each Mandarake store does its own purchasing and pricing so there's another possibility for screw ups to occur. If you look on their site, you can search for stuff at either every store or individual ones.

 

I find Mandarake to be a little over priced on the DD clothing at times but as for the DDs themselves, they pretty much fall right into the market pricings.

 

 

 

Billy

Mandarake prices can be off sometimes, I feel lately they skew high for DD and certain Volks ltd outfits that are popular in Japan.

Also I don't think they ever revise prices for online items, so as dolls lose popularity the price can stay high. Prices may creep down over time, too, as unsold stock acbleepulates. You can find a list of their DD purchase prices online if you're curious about their markup

 

When you consider proxy fees for mid and low price-range dolls on auctions, then Mandarake isn't a bad option. They do make significant markdowns for damage and incomplete sets. Plus you can throw in some cheap wigs and accessories from the same shop and combine shipping.

From what I have noticed,the market has been insane all across the board for dolls

When I first visited Manadarke Akiba like 4 years ago, there were just 2 or 3 shelf with DD stuff. Last week I had the chance to check out the store again and now almost the hole 2nd floor is filled with dollfie and other doll stuff. Tons of character dollfies, heads, clothes, wigs, etc.. Most prices are a little bit to high in my option and for my wallet Well, I already bought to much at the volks store.

I wonder what will happen in the feature: Will they lower the prices to get rid of the items? Will they stop to buy doll items? I also wonder if many people are gettings out the hobby in Japan now, or is it just that they sell to get money for new things?