Recasted BJDs/DDs/Others

What are your guy's opinions on it?

(Basically friendly, neutral or anti*)

 

The main reason I brought it up was out of curiosity, and the fact that there seems to be a distinct lack of recasted DDs.

 

 

 

 

(I actually am a little too friendly for DoA's standards)

 

 

*For DoA members, I know you'd be (Or appear) anti-recast.

I'm pretty sure it can't be done on a DD because of the different material and the internal skeleton...

 

That said, I don't want to buy/own them because I think it's wrong and doesn't give me the quality I pay for, but I will never stop to be friend with someone for their different choice.

Yeah, I agree with your opinion, it's just I think its okay or someone to have one, but I dunno if I personally would get one.

 

The DD internal frame in itself would cost a lot to make, it truly is unique, and complex. It would be a little more than hard (Heh heh... that's what she said. Okay, not funny. ) to recreate. The vinyl parts itself wouldn't be OVERLY hard (...That's what she- No. I need to stop) to make those, but they'd still be expensive.

 

Thanks for taking your time to reply, I love a good opinion!

I'm extremely anti-recast and honestly think less of people who know knowingly purchase a recast.

 

(It's a different story if you thought you were buying a legitimate doll and later discovered it was a recast -- that's not your fault, the blame lays entirely with the dishonest seller.)

 

Thankfully, it seems like a "recast" DD would probably cost more than the real thing because of the complexities of the manufacturing process for vinyl dolls and the internal skeleton, so it's not been an issue in this community.

Ah...I see, Cauldroness. I may not completely share your opinion (Again, I'm way too nice and accepting of people to really think less, but in any case, I see where you're coming from.) but I do understand with innocent people unknowingly buying recasted BJDs.

 

 

Yeah, DDs being recasted are extremely unlikely.

I don't think I have a reputation for being "nice," but I'm OK with that. I'd rather be just than nice.

 

Here's how I think of it: Someone steals your phone. Your friend buys that phone, knowing it's your stolen phone. Your friend totally admits they have your stolen phone, but refuses to give it back to you and refuses to give you any money for your loss. And, because your friend paid the thief, when you get a new phone, he steals that one, too! Your friend says they are OK with your phones being stolen because now they have the phone they really want (you know, the one that used to be yours) and they got it for really cheap. Do you really want to be friends with that person?

 

That's basically how I view recasting. It's encouraging theft from doll artists, even if the person buying the recast isn't doing the actual stealing.

Here's how I think of it: Someone steals your phone. Your friend buys that phone, knowing it's your stolen phone. Your friend totally admits they have your stolen phone, but refuses to give it back to you and refuses to give you any money for your loss. And, because your friend paid the thief, when you get a new phone, he steals that one, too! Your friend says they are OK with your phones being stolen because now they have the phone they really want (you know, the one that used to be yours) and they got it for really cheap. Do you really want to be friends with that person?

 

This is a really fantastic and easy to understand explanation and I completely agree with you, Cauldroness.

 

I'd also like to add that there are ways to lessen the likelihood of accidentally purchasing a recast through research (I believe there are master lists of known recasts somewhere on DoA), careful communication with the seller (requesting additional photos, certificates that may have accompanied the doll when first purchased), and being aware of common pricing/general "going rates" for dolls you might be interested in. Absolutely the fault and blame lies with them if they sell you a bootleg product, but it doesn't hurt for you to do your due diligence as well.

 

It really isn't a matter of "niceness." Turning a blind eye to people who (willingly) engage in transactions with bootleg artists is not being "nice," it's condoning dishonest behavior that is ultimately damaging to the hobby as a whole.

I hope I didn't come off in a bad way... I just meant I'm WAY too careless about what others do. I myself don't support recasts, and wouldn't buy one, but if a person buys one, I'm gonna be happy with them, I guess because they're excited and say "Hey! I got my doll at a better price, yadda yadda..." because in reality, we're all spending money on expensive hunks of resin and vinyl, and if a recast makes them happy, then so be it, I just wouldn't say it's okay. An old conversation with a friend.

 

Me: You got a new doll?

Friend: Yeah, it was an Iplehouse!

Me: Really? It must've taken a long time to save for and get made, huh? Imagine the satisfaction when it finally got there!

Friend: ...Actually, I didn't save too long, and it was made in a few weeks.

Me: Few weeks you meant a month?

Friend: No, lemme show you the shop!

(This was kinda sketchy, but I clicked on the link anyways. It led to a recasting shop on AliExpress. Agh.)

Me: ....Did you know these were recasts?

Friend: Yeah, why?

Me: Those are illegal.

Friend: Not in China.

Me: ...FOR GOD'S SAKES I WAS ON A TANGENT DO NOT STOP ME, (Friend name)! Whatever, I'm glad you got your doll, but I don't support recasts. That doesn't make your doll any less of a doll, but I'm just saying, sometimes it's better to buy a legit doll, your conscience will be clearer.

Friend: ...

Me: *Sigh for 38 years* But.. you got a doll. I don't condone your behavior, but what I do condone is to get some clothes on your naked doll.

 

Cauldroness, I'm pretty sure I really came off as rude, I apologize. I like your analogy, though!

 

buncho, I didn't mean to turn a blind eye (Although that's how I made it sound, I should have clarified) against it, like I said, I wouldn't encourage said behavior, because it is illegal. But the thing is, it doesn't really matter too much, imho.

 

I hope that my choice of wording gets better. I hope you guys didn't take this in a wrong way.

I have yet to see Dollfie Dreams get recasted, as others said, it would probably be too expensive because of the frames, so nobody bothers to do it. I DO see Super Dollfies get recasted though and personally I think it's sickening to see vendors knowingly selling these recasts at full retail price(This is rare but they usually sell it half of retail or a quarter of retail price) to the unknowing customer.

 

For people who own recasts and have 0 clue that they bought one, I don't mind. But those that willingly support recasts by constantly buying them is unacceptable to me. I know there can be many factors on why people would buy recasts(Such as low income or unavailability), but it still doesn't make it right to support these recasts in any way.

 

A lot of people would argue "Oh but (Doll company here) already makes enough money!" While this is true, this doesn't mean it's right for others to perform recasts of their products. It's like someone tracing/using your artwork and selling them to make profit without your permission.

 

I hope I never accidentally buy a recasted doll because that will make me extremely depressed. This is why I avoid buying dolls from China(the main place recasts are usually sold) but purchasing online(ebay/amazon) isn't always safe, there was even a vendor in Japan who was selling illegal/recasted SDs. I usually go for places like Mandrake or Volks USA/JP to ensure the product I get is legitimate.

Ah, thanks for replying Mario!

 

Apparently, VOLKS USA had a notice about recasted SDs. Honestly, it wasn't surprising.

 

 

Thanks for your opinion!

When I was brand new to the hobby (as in, I'd just discovered and started researching), I was only 13/14 years old and I was only ever acquainted with the US consumer culture, where you can get knockoffs of pretty much every product available. I never really thought too much on why recasts and knockoffs in general are bad, given that I had very little frame of reference, and the US companies being copied were usually large designer brands, like luxury handbags.

 

However, over the years, I've situated myself as firmly anti-recast. I've seen a number of companies take steps to do damage control on the recast issue and try to protect themselves, but there's only so much they can do. Certificates of authenticity used to not be the norm, and they were considered special (usually only used for limited releases). But now, companies send out numbered CoAs just to try and let their customers know that they're getting what they paid for. Recasts have also been part of the reason that the resin side's marketplace has come to such a standstill. It's not the entire reason, mind you, but it is part of it.

 

It's also hard when these are relatively small factories producing artist dolls for a niche hobby. They just don't have the funds to pursue the legal action needed to shut recasts down, and as their bottom line diminishes because people are buying the recast instead of the official release, then they either pull a Fairyland and release a new sculpt every few months to retain customers, or they just fold up and vanish.

 

As far as purchasing traditional BJDs go, I currently only order from official company websites or their certified dealers (like Nine9Style, Alice's Collection, etc.). DDs are nice in that I don't have to worry about whether or not a great deal is a scam in disguise. Here, a deal on a rare head is just a deal. There, it could be a deal, or it could be someone trying to make a quick buck by selling you a knockoff.

 

This is super long and ramble-y, and I apologize. I just wanted to get my opinion on this out there!

The low income reasoning always personally gets me to shake my head a bit more than usual. I say that as someone who grew up in a low income household until my teens. I get it that it sucks to not be able to have what you want, I've been there, but if they can afford a recast...they can afford a legit. Will it be that $700 doll they want? No. But sometimes you gotta work with what you got instead of always wanting what you can't have. That only brings misery upon yourself. That's what growing up without much money in my family taught me. I was much happier when I learned to let go of things I, or my family, simply couldn't afford and to appreciate them from afar if I had to. And like all bootleg merchandise, I also just think recasts are a ripoff in general. Money that was so hard to earn is better spent on people who create for this hobby instead of on the ones who destroy it.

 

I guess I just don't get it(and I'm glad I don't get it...) since all of my dolls(head and body) are considered "cheap" at under $260. My cheapest one is my Hujoo Freya at $50. And I still have as much fun doing things with her as I do with my two Obitsu/DD boys. If I never knew the joy of having the others and she was the only doll I had, I'd still be happy with her.

 

I'm glad though that recast DD don't exist and likely never will. I like that I don't have to watch my back here for people trying to trick me into buying a fake like in all my other collecting hobbies. It gets tiring to have to inspect every detail of every item and listing like I'm the freaking FBI or something. So in short, yeah, I'm anti-recast. :/ For more reasons than this too, but I rambled enough here lol.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Guest

I have never seen a decent justification for recasts. Ever. Every excuse I see either boils down to pure laziness, being impatient, or being spoiled enough to think that you deserve everything you want. It's a horrible attitude to have. Even worse is when they try to spin it into a pity party. We all have to save up for these dolls! They're not supposed to be toys for kids, they're adult collectables. It's beyond insulting to me when someone tries to use their own lack of money or even mental illness to try and justify why it's okay.

 

There are big BJD companies like Fairyland, Iplehouse and of course Volks who make a lot of money, and pro-recasters love to say that they're not going to missing out on any income through the loss of a sale. That's not the point, though. The people who recast BJD do not discriminate when it comes to what dolls they recast. You never know what your money is going towards. You might have bought a recasted Super Dollfie or Iplehouse, but it's not like the recaster is only going to use your money to put towards recasting more Super Dollfies or Iplehouses. Your money is most likely helping them recast smaller companies and artist dolls who are definitely hurt by this, companies that literally cannot afford the profit losses that recasts result in. And Volks aside, these 'big BJD companies' people go on about are rarely even very big. They're a handful of employees at most, and the smaller ones are often one or two people operating out of their own living room.

 

Even if I'm not a particularly good one, I'm still an artist, and I respect other artists. Liking someone's art enough that you have to have it, but not enough to actually pay them for it, is one of the most disrespectful things I can imagine. Me and my sister sell prints and stuff at anime cons sometimes. Recasts are exactly the same as someone buying one of my prints, photocopying it and then selling it for cheaper, and then someone buying the photocopied one and having the gaul to tell me that 'yeah i LIKE this pic but you charge too much sorry, I would rather pay this thief who did not put any effort into making this whatsoever other than to operate a photocopier'. Except it's actually a whole lot worse than that because I do not make a living off of selling these prints and that would not endanger my livelihood (it would my sister, on the other hand.)

 

Also...there are SO MANY types of dolls in this hobby, so many affordable ones and so many other options available that I simply cannot comprehend how anyone could look at them all and decide to go with the option that harms the hobby. That's why I have zero respect for anyone who buys one on purpose with full knowledge of what they are doing, and that won't ever change. Accidents happen, so its completely different if someone bought one by mistake. I even understand if someone bought one by mistake or received one as a gift but didnt want to get rid of it because they grew attached to it. (Besides, getting rid of it wouldnt change anything) People call anti-recasters elitists but I honestly think the pros are far more elitist than we will ever be - how is not thinking YOU deserve this doll cheaper and easier than anyone else not elitist? How is refusing to settle for a doll from a cheaper company because its beneath you not elitist? Gaah.

 

Sorry for the rant, but those are my thoughts. I dont even really wanna call them 'just my opinions' because the harm recasts do are actual fact. I know it sucks when you're young and a doll seems impossibly expensive and that you'll never own it. I'm 28 now and even when I was 25 it seemed like an impossible price to me and that I'd never be able to get one. But if you save up, it will feel far more rewarding in the end, and you'll be paying artists and companies for their hard work instead of giving them a middle finger covered in snot.

 

But yeah, I am really glad that bootleg DDs don't exist because I would hate to have to deal with selfish people trying to convince me how they are perfectly fine over here as well. 8') I think the DD community is closely connected with the anime figure community though, and I have literally never seen people in the anime figure try to push the rhetoric that its fine to buy bootleg figures and that they have a 'place' in the collectors community - opinion is pretty consistent that they're trash, with some people only buying them for modding. (even so, bootleg figuers dont hurt figure companies as much as recast BJDs hurt bjd companies)

Yeah... There's literally no good reason to knowingly buy a recast. The only excuse someone who does that has is that they're severely entitled. If you can afford one of them you can save up longer and buy a legit one. I'm also glad it really isn't a thing for dollfie dreams, and I'm really not looking forward to getting a certain resin doll when I get around to it since she was a limited fairyland release because of how carefully I'll have to go about getting her. She was pretty well liked so I'm sure she got recasted.

 

As for figures, imo the only bootleg that has a place in any collection is the legend, the one and freaking only...

 

 

Sader. No one is buying that thing in place of the original.

Thanks for sharing your views with me, guys.

 

AND MIMI WHY?

 

omg saber why. saber no

Honestly, I have knock offs of bags (mostly gifts from my mom), and I watch movies online and read mangas and download games that I don't want to buy... I can't say I'm one to judge people on what they do.

But I am extremely anti-recast and I do judge other people on their choices (as I allow others to judge me based on my bad choices).

But I also don't go in spaces where people talk about their gucci bags saying that my fake should be accepted by them, or that my watching movies and reading mangas online doesn't hurt the makers. I am pretty much fully aware of what I'm doing and I'm not excusing it (besides that I don't have money for -every- single movie and game I want, and I -have- spent a LOT of money on them already).

As for figures, imo the only bootleg that has a place in any collection is the legend, the one and freaking only...

 

 

Sader. No one is buying that thing in place of the original.

I'm sorry, but I would totally buy that

I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but I think that my beliefs align most with Shailara on this one.

 

EDIT: Gamma Ray, I would too. It's the facial expression that really matters. Beautiful.

I personally am completely anti-recast. As Torina said, I see no real reason to ever buy a recast. I have no sympathy, or real respect for people who actively buy recasts knowing what they are doing.

 

And I'm probably on the unfavorable opinion that I believe if you don't have the money for what you want then, maybe, this isn't the hobby for you. If you can't go for the lower priced options (like myself, because aesthetically I'm not a fan generally) then put this hobby on observe and wait till you can. I waited 3 years (till I was 16 and employed) before I could purchase a doll.

 

Also, if I remember correctly, when they sometimes make the initial cast for which they use later to make their recast they actually sometimes severely damage the doll they use. So, think about it, not only do they steal someone's hard work, but they may have even damaged the legit one...sometimes these molds are very, very limited. To lose even just one to such a nasty thing is awful (very limited or not).

 

Volks Suigintou (My Holiest of Holy Grails) is one of the most popular recasts. To imagine that one may have been destroyed for the sake of making illegal copies literally sickens me.

I'd probably be labeled recast friendly. As for the ethical issues - well, that's capitalism. I'm in other communities - blythe and formerly lolita - and they never really cared about counterfeits/bootlegs, so I've never understood why it's such a big deal in the BJD community. It has the same effects across the board.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Guest

Ah, thanks for replying Mario!

 

Apparently, VOLKS USA had a notice about recasted SDs. Honestly, it wasn't surprising.

 

 

Thanks for your opinion!

Could you please link it to us?

Here it is. http://www.superdollfie.net/otoiawase/illegalcopies_en/

 

This topic still makes me pretty angry/upset, and my feelings on the issue haven't changed so there's not much point in me saying anything that hasn't already been covered in the post I wrote. I still think anyone who is even 'neutral' doesn't care about the hobby or just doesn't understand the damage it does. Artists made it possible. It's not comparable to bigger industries like music/movies etc, it's a niche hobby (not to say that kind of piracy isnt also harmful)

 

Recently I found out that recasting is not something only affecting the 'toy' hobby industry - apparently it's present in, of all things, the fishing lure hobby industry. I don't know a ton about that - and I certainly had no idea special/limited edition lures existed, but apparently there are people pretty angry about it happening there. People will do anything to get cheap things they feel entitled to (because that's all it comes down to - entitlement), but just because it happens in all kinds of areas doesn't mean the problem should be downplayed.

Just a couple months ago I was offered an SD Lorina, it's one of the SDs I actually want since she's just irresistibly cute. But anyway, I was offered a Lorina from a seller(I don't want to release names since I don't want to involve myself in drama.) Apparently the owner said she was leaving the hobby and just wanted to sell their Lorina cheap($600). They had contacted me since I was in search for one, I was just about reply with a "yes, I will buy it" until I found out that their Lorina was TAN and it had really awful discoloration.

 

I started asking if the doll was a recast, but they told me they had no clue they purchased it from some "random bjd website".

 

I think what really upset me is the fact that they could of just let me know beforehand that she was a recast but oh well, even some people don't know what they are buying. >< So I had to politely decline the transaction. If I didn't know about recasts I'd probably would of been scammed :/

 

Edit: Researching about a recasted Lorina, she goes for less than $200

 

Basically if I did buy her from the seller they would of scammed me out of $400. Yikes

I admit, I've been tempted by some recasts were I ever to get into the resin side of the hobby, but I always talk myself out of it because I'd feel guilty if I did purposely buy it. It sucks for me that there are probably some sculpts I may never see for a reasonable price on the aftermarket, like Volks' Creamy Mami or Luts' Soony (and if there are reasonably priced ones, please point me in that direction!!) but it's not like I'm hurting for more options that I could grow attached to.

As it is, though, I prefer the feel and aesthetic of vinyl dolls more, so it's definitely easy for me to stay on the legit side of things since it seems harder for those to be bootlegged.

 

I wasn't aware that dolls get ruined in the recasting process, though, which makes me really upset. :c That's one less legit doll in the world to be found, and it hurts even more if they were super limited!

I'd probably be labeled recast friendly. One of my pals collects recasts and I have no problem with her, haha. As for the ethical issues - well, that's capitalism. I'm in other communities - blythe and formerly lolita - and they never really cared about counterfeits/bootlegs, so I've never understood why it's such a big deal in the BJD community. It has the same effects across the board.

 

I'm pretty much with you on this one. I just don't care enough to shun people who buy them. Bootlegs are part of life, as long as someone isn't trying to sell it as legit I don't care. I probably wouldn't buy one myself, though I have considered getting a "copy" head of a doll I bought legit so I can mod it without feeling really anxious.