Recasted BJDs/DDs/Others

I remember when a recaster got a hold of a kinokoJuice doll, a lot of people on the Spanish BJD comunity wheren't against it being recasted because "she (the original creator) is such an elitist and wont let people buy her dolls", "she deserves it for making her dolls so limited and expensive" and stuff like that...

 

The whole thing with piracy (movies, music, games, books, dolls, figures) is people thinking that they DESERVE to own/watch/play something, is what Torino said, people think they are entiled to things, just because they want it.

The problem with that is that original small creators stop creating, because they can't make a living from it. So I really can't stand people that dowlowad/buy piracy stuff, is like taking all the oranges from a tree and then not watering it, eventually it will stop growing fruit... and I do love my oranges!

 

Don't get me wrong, I can have a relationship with people that do piracy, mostly when they are long time friends that in the end know that what they do isn't right... But what I can't stand at all, and I've seen it a lot, is those people that not only justify themselves "I don't have the money", "it was too limited", "I don't want to pay for it", the worst is those that say "you're the same because you do it too with movies/mangas/games/clothes, so you can't judge me". Even if someones does dowload movies, is an entirely diferrent thing not paying for something, and paying someone that has stolen the original content. But what grinds my gears is that attitude of "you are the same as me". In Spanish we have a saying, "Cree el ladrón que todos son de su condición", which roughly translates as "believes the thief that everyone else is like him" and it applies so well to all those owners of recast that aggresivily respond to anyone that sais that recast is wrong...

 

This post doesn't intend to be an attack to anyone, but I do get pissed off with this issue, so I want to clarify it, in case I do sound rude.

I posed this question in a previous thread relating to recasting so i'll posed it here for those who didn't see it.

 

While its clear that the wholesale recasting of bodies is a nono for everyone here howabout the recasting of certain parts such as joints, parts of the inner frame etc- parts that can be difficult to find replacement parts for through official channels?

 

If someone was to recast and sell them - and only them - would you have the same opinions of them as you would someone who recast whole bodies?

If someone was to recast and sell them - and only them - would you have the same opinions of them as you would someone who recast whole bodies?

 

I think that you would have to have a no-tolerance towards it all.

You could pretty much go with the same argument as with limited dolls: "the doll is not available anyway, it won't hurt the company-in-question".

But what happens if the company decides to make said parts available for purchase? Would you want to risk purchasing a secondhand doll with recasted parts? What about the quality of said parts?

 

To put it simply - I would consider them the same as any other recaster.

One should put more effort towards the companies to make spare parts available, in some form, instead.

I posed this question in a previous thread relating to recasting so i'll posed it here for those who didn't see it.

 

While its clear that the wholesale recasting of bodies is a nono for everyone here howabout the recasting of certain parts such as joints, parts of the inner frame etc- parts that can be difficult to find replacement parts for through official channels?

 

If someone was to recast and sell them - and only them - would you have the same opinions of them as you would someone who recast whole bodies?

I'm anti-recast, but for maintenance/repairs parts only, I think I'd be okay with that. It reminds me of neck adapters people make, or the Cool Cat joint braces (although those are original pieces). But for DDs, Volks sells all the parts people need as far as I'm aware. It sucks if you just need a wrist piece and you have to buy a set of arms to get them, but you can't argue that they are unavailable.

 

Come to think of it, are any of the silicon bust parts out there cast from Volks' busts?

I posed this question in a previous thread relating to recasting so i'll posed it here for those who didn't see it.

 

While its clear that the wholesale recasting of bodies is a nono for everyone here howabout the recasting of certain parts such as joints, parts of the inner frame etc- parts that can be difficult to find replacement parts for through official channels?

 

If someone was to recast and sell them - and only them - would you have the same opinions of them as you would someone who recast whole bodies?

 

Eh...I'm only okay with this for one-time personal use. But only if the company really doesn't sell replacements and it's not feasible to buy secondhand.

 

As for the step further with selling them...I feel like I'd only be okay with that with the unrealistic expectation that they be sold for material cost + shipping only. And of course no one would do that lol because they'd want to be paid for their time too. AND the parts be marked in some way so people can't lie and say the doll has all its original parts. So...I don't think I can be realistically cool with someone selling them if there's not serious modification to them that basically makes them something new or different, like the CoolCat metal parts. But that's just me.

I posed this question in a previous thread relating to recasting so i'll posed it here for those who didn't see it.

 

While its clear that the wholesale recasting of bodies is a nono for everyone here howabout the recasting of certain parts such as joints, parts of the inner frame etc- parts that can be difficult to find replacement parts for through official channels?

 

If someone was to recast and sell them - and only them - would you have the same opinions of them as you would someone who recast whole bodies?

 

If the item is a recast of the company's original piece I don't think is right, is stealling a property. But if the item is a redesing of the replacement part (as with coolcat necks joint) I don't have a problem, because its a different item that suplies a demand.

Is like the silicone bust, they do fit a DD but is the original desing of the people making them (even if some use de DD2 as a base)

Yikes, never thought I would see this topic pop up here. This will always garner the support and pure dislike from a lot of people and fights can ensue...but I totally dig how respectful everyone is regarding their opinions

 

I wholeheartedly dislike and do not support recasts. I will never give anyone an excuse for doing it, unless it was an honest mistake, such as being misled about its authenticity or being new to the hobby, etc. I really...I just can't understand people that do, though...

I cannot imagine a simple person who would put their heart and soul into something and sell it for a living and be okay with someone else stealing the entire design and re-selling it in low quality and cheaper.

 

When I first got into the BJD Hobby, I was about 12 and recasts weren't as prevalent as they are now, but they were there...and for someone who had no income or allowance, I never once considered buying one. My main thing was, how can I make enough money to buy the real thing? And I did. There is no honor nor should there be joy in owning a fake.

 

While its clear that the wholesale recasting of bodies is a nono for everyone here howabout the recasting of certain parts such as joints, parts of the inner frame etc- parts that can be difficult to find replacement parts for through official channels?

 

If someone was to recast and sell them - and only them - would you have the same opinions of them as you would someone who recast whole bodies?

 

That's a really good point, but still, buying a cheap, dollarstore knockoff of their skeletons is silly, they are fragile as it is, why take that risk? Besides, Volks is cool about replacements. When I wanted to get my Kirika a DDdy body, it arrived with a broken neck piece, I sent them a message and they shipped me a new one free of charge. Even if they charged me, I would have felt happy. I think you should at least try to ask to buy a particular part, if you need it, you might get the answer you want.

Out of curiosity, how do you (and this could be from any anti recast person) differentiate between a knockoff handbag/other bootlegs are recasts? I've always seen them as the same, but I know some people separate the the two and I'm curious as to why.

Out of curiosity, how do you (and this could be from any anti recast person) differentiate between a knockoff handbag/other bootlegs are recasts? I've always seen them as the same, but I know some people separate the the two and I'm curious as to why.

They're not remotely the same, because knockoff handbags are typically from multi-million dollar companies like LV and not small artist studios who have their livelihoods to worry about. These smaller companies are always getting recasted, and even if its a recast of a 'big' company like Volks, you're still giving money to a recaster who is going to use that to steal dolls from smaller companies.

(Not that i'm excusing knockoff handbags, I dont really know enough about the industry to say if it truly is a problem or not, because I cannot remotely understand why anyone would pay over $100 for a bag anyway, and I honestly think the designer ones are ugly as sin. -SHRUG- I dont understand why people even find it necessary to buy a knockoff bag when so many cheaper bags exist. I thought the entire point of having a LV bag was so that everyone would know you have a lot of money, so do people just buy fakes to make people think they're rich? I just can't believe anyone actually wants them for their appearance alone ._,)

Other bootlegs are similar but different, because of how the businesses operate. But I don't think you can compare them because most BJD companies are independent - they barely make enough to cover the cost of making the doll/shipping/website maintenace/packaging and paying the employees (if there even are any), unlike a massive music or movie company. It has some similarities to bootlegs of figures, but as far as I know those are largely looked down on anyway and there isn't some weird subculture of people with a victim complex who insist theres no harm in buying them. (it could also be because most bootleg figures look noticeably worse than the real thing)

 

I said this before but what it's most similar to is not other bootlegs/knockoffs, but somebody taking someone's artwork, printing it out and selling it as their own for profit, without permission.

My feelings on recasts are pretty straightforward, but here's my two cents and why:

 

Short version, not cool. It's easy to view these dolls as just another hobby and artists are being greedy by asking so much but...no. These are, like it or not, largely available or not, art dolls. It is a luxury hobby and if you wish to be in it you need to accept the price of entry. I don't know how more simple it can be put than that. I get it, it's expensive, but if the product isn't worth the price to you, maybe you should find another creative outlet. It is what it is.

 

I've thought about it a lot from the perspective of my own art. If I were to sell it, and someone stepped in and began making prints, how would I feel? That is my production and not only are they using it without my permission, they're making money off of it. It's not right. These companies are no different: artists, operating at whatever scale, large or small, trying to make a living off of their art. Which is hard enough as it is. Whatever they sell for whatever price you are buying their vision, and I think it is the artists call - not yours - to decide how much that is worth.

 

I will also say this: as a collector of resins, I resent the buzzword and hackles that go up as soon as someone mentions the term recast. I feel the need to carry my CoAs when I go to a meet, just in case I face a negative accusation. Do I disagree with recasts? Yes, wholeheartedly. Do I understand or agree with the sheer vitriol and hatred that so often gets verbalized? No. It's unhealthy both ways and it furthers no point - for pro-recasters it validates their feelings of anti-elitism, and on the whole it just brings a level of toxicity that I despise anywhere. Valid reasons or not. It doesn't bring anything new to the party, just gets everybody all shouty and heated.

 

It's been referred to also as the witch hunt, the strong words that are tossed about it. I'm a firm believer in words having meaning, and cutting deep: what's everyone's opinion on this part of the debate?

I think if people are seriously sending death threats and bullying others over dolls then they are trash. That much isn't really defendable. It does happen, and it shouldn't. Just like I'm not comfortable associating wth people who defend art theft I'm not comfortable associating with people who defend their right to harass and send death threats to people who defend art theft.

However, a lot of prorecast people have a very, very generous defenition of what actually counts as bullying. To some of them (more like a lot of them, from what I see on tumblr), the mere exclusion of bootleg dolls in legit spaces is bullying. Explaining that the practice harms artists is bullying. Explaining that almost everyone has to save up for the dolls they want is bullying. Merely stating that you are proartist at all is bullying! The persecution complex is unreal, and completely bizarre because it's all based on their feelings, but the feelings of the artists don't mean jack to them.

I'm against bullying, but only when it's...actually bullying.

I think that is an interesting and unfortunately valid point. Just because someone expresses an opinion that differs from yours, does not mean you're being marginalized, bullied, yelled at, etc. That's actually an extremely common internet phenomenon - mildly related but only mildly, I also will refer you to the echo chamber effect.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_(media)

 

I think that has something to do with it. When we put ourselves in personal echo chambers, surrounding ourselves by opinions we agree with - and NOTHING but - I think it becomes easier to be alarmed by the presence of a differing opinion. Regardless of what is right or wrong. For some reason a lot of people take pride in the ability to not have their opinions changed by the addition of new information, too, and I think that's a depressing state of mind. If you refuse to learn....that said, the victim complex seems to be an ALARMINGLY common one these days and...I wish I could say or guess why, lol.

 

It's a fascinating psychological rabbit hole without a doubt, in any case, but in a nutshell I agree. Overreactions are common, in any circle albeit, not just the recast vs. anti-recast debate. But, I've always opined that largely in this hobby it's because it's so personal. Dolls are....strange. A lot of us reflect our characters onto them, it's highly creative, and as such I think some of us might react to it in a similar way to if you told an artist their work was stolen or ugly or etc. More of an attack on the person, than their belief or possession.

100% anti recast

I didn't know this topic was here! Hmm...

 

I don't mind recasts at all. I'm a member of a recast-friendly forum, and have considered purchasing a recast in the past. Probably still will, one of these days. I'm just...very, very attached to vinyl and joints and this anime aesthetic that goes with it. Can't recast that.

 

Of course, no one will ever hear me say that, except for very rarely, for obvious reasons. All the hysteria and overreaction on Tumblr has sort of numbed me to the nasty names and various insults they would throw at me, ableism and very blatant classism, and whatever else. In the end, they're my toys, for me to enjoy, whether they come from Volks or from some bootleg shop in China. Maybe I'm just over it. I'm not worried about others. I just want to have a good time.

 

I still respect forum rules, though. If they don't wanna see 'em, I'll oblige.

I'm not worried about others.

And that is why there are recasts.

I'm not worried about others. I just want to have a good time.

 

I still respect forum rules, though. If they don't wanna see 'em, I'll oblige.

Too bad you don't respect artists and their work. What a lousy attitude to have.

 

For the very first time since joining this forum I'm very tempted to add someone to the ignore ("enemy") list.

I'm 100% pro artist. While for the end user they may be simply toys, for the people who create them this is their livelihood. The numbers that dollmakers see is nowhere near the numbers that companies who sell products to the general public (or rich elite, if we're talking high fashion) see. The difference is so much that recasting has forced many artists to stop producing dolls altogether.

 

If somebody really loves the hobby, then they owe it to the artists whose sculpts they love to buy the genuine doll.

Pro artist here, as well as an artist (though not sculptor) myself, I understand the discouragement when someone just takes anything you did like it's nothing and then even tries to profit off of it. It's a horrible feeling.

 

I will always support artists whose work and quality I love and admire, be they bigger or smaller companies. It's always very disheartening and sad to see an artist stopping their work because of re-casters. If the original artist quits there won't be any new and exciting items from them anymore to look forward to but it's an understandable choice. I'm more than willing to pay for quality work that suits my tastes, preferably always straight from the source if only possible -- be it dolls, their clothes or anything else at all really.

For anyone who is "pro-recast" or "recast-neutral," I strongly recommend reading about what's happened:

 

https://denofangels.com/threads/bjd-makers-threatened-by-chinese-counterfeiter.773786/

 

This is why I am 100% anti-recast and will not socialize with pro-recast collectors. I do not hesitate one second to say, yes, I do shun pro-recasters, I do think poorly of them, I do not hesitate to say how much I dislike them. Pro-recasters are actively harming the hobby I love -- no way am I going to be OK with that, or pretend to be OK with that so that these thieves' feelings aren't hurt.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Guest

For anyone who is "pro-recast" or "recast-neutral," I strongly recommend reading about what's happened:

 

https://denofangels.com/threads/bjd-makers-threatened-by-chinese-counterfeiter.773786/

 

This is why I am 100% anti-recast and will not socialize with pro-recast collectors. I do not hesitate one second to say, yes, I do shun anti-recasters, I do think poorly off them, I do not hesitate to say how much I dislike them. Pro-recasters are actively harming the hobby I love -- no way am I going to be OK with that, or pretend to be OK with that so that these thieves' feelings aren't hurt.

Totally agree with all of this.

 

It's the exact same way I feel about game and software piracy, in which those who do it often claim the same total nonsense about it being a "victimless crime."

yes, I do shun anti-recasters, I do think poorly off them

I think You lost me here. Or it's a typo, probably

 

There is no explanation for stealing someone's work, be it making copies or the new case of copyright trolling. Just no.

If You can't afford a legit BJD just now, wait and save money.

Maybe buy a legit second-hand, or a legit cheaper brand than this 2k$ big ultra limited Super Gem.

"I want this now and dirt cheap because reasons" is not a valid point.

 

I saved and waited a whole year to get my Saber Alter, just for example (man, she was expensive... most expensive of all my dolls) And then another months to get her fullset clothes.

If someone is lazy and making poor excuses... well, it's their own fault.

 

"about game and software piracy" is the same thing.

Yes, I used to have some "copies" long ago, when I was young and dumb (and poor ).

But there are so many discounts, black fridays, mag versions, giveaways and freewares, that except laziness there isn't a single reason to do so anymore. I support the creators and I have the tech support from them. I have the rights for upgrade and so on. Win-win.

Now my legit game and software library is so big, that I don't have time to play with all this.

Unfortunately, there is no way to buy additional 4 hours a day...

yes, I do shun anti-recasters, I do think poorly off them

I think You lost me here. Or it's a typo, probably

 

Yessss, haha, definitely a typo, thanks for catching that. I've fixed it now. That's what I get for typing too quickly and not re-reading before posting.

For anyone who is "pro-recast" or "recast-neutral," I strongly recommend reading about what's happened:

 

https://denofangels.com/threads/bjd-makers-threatened-by-chinese-counterfeiter.773786/

 

Gads that seems little different from patent trolling.

I just saw this warning post about a possible DD Miku bootleg/recast.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1547831568650898&id=446751988758867

I'm not so sure. Someone has Snow Miku to compare the face, box etc?

And it's not made in China, the listing says Made in Japan.

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.1.7f837d6eYkC1Ip&id=581447863248&ns=1&abbucket=13#detail

 

The store was established in 2011 and has opened a physical store in Tsim Sha Tsui, Hong Kong.

Main selling: Japanese toys, movie peripheral products, American comic doll toys, and so on. All goods in this store are genuine brand goods, welcome to inquire.

Shop Address: Room 1204-1206, 12th Floor, Lishi Commercial Building, 5~11, Jialanwei, Granville Road, Tsim Sha Tsui.