Injection vs vinyl

Resin recast is possible because there are big chunks of resin and one can fairly easily make silicone molds for it, even at home.

The exterior parts of plastic SmD are thin and will be hard to replicate that way.

Basically, for injection molding you need precise metal molds and a factory. When you have factory, in most cases you have better things to do than bootleg dolls.

Bootlegging is all about making money, so the easier the process the better. If someone wanted to bootleg Smart Dolls it would be easier to just cast the parts in resin and string it like a conventional resin without making any of the relief cuts necessary for the elastics at the joints, most notably the one at the hip joint.

Resin recast is possible because there are big chunks of resin and one can fairly easily make silicone molds for it, even at home.

The exterior parts of plastic SmD are thin and will be hard to replicate that way.

Basically, for injection molding you need precise metal molds and a factory. When you have factory, in most cases you have better things to do than bootleg dolls.

 

Yes- very expensive to set up an injection molding process. The end product doesn't cost as much but it is a lot in set-up.

That is certainly much more reassuring. I was scared there was some way to cast it in a dirt-cheap method like hollowing out the limbs and stuffing it with even more obscure materials just to cast it regularly n such. It's good to know that at least, that would take a ridiculous amount of effort, and resources.

 

After all, recasting is the resin world's biggest fear. A feeling that no one would want to see here.

Im collecting model kit as well, so this injection msd somehow like a model kit, and theres a lot of bootleg model kit on the market, its 100% possible now to bootleging SMD if danny decided to release injection SMD, vinyl recast are possible but its cost a lot to just recasting vinyl doll, the recaster better making their own doll line rather than recasting branded vinyl doll.

Of course it is possible. But it will be rather financially unprofitable, that's our hope.

Dolls like SmD still don't sell in tens of thousands, the target group is much smaller than, say, Barbie, Pony or model kit collectors.

In resin world the recaster's profit is huge, because the silicone molds and resin are cheap, even the fake printed certificates too.

With model kits You can probably make a mold out of original, with all the sprues, runners, and gates.

In case of SmD the bootlegger probably will have to make it from scratch - You will only have individual, already separated parts (probably). And like we said - injection molds cost big money.

And it's still only a body.

Mind You - in the resin recast business You can only buy a nude, blank doll.

Ever seen a bootleg fullset doll, with all the clothes, shoes, wigs and other things?

No, because the profit margin will be so small it will make the whole thing inviable.

Probably it's simpler and better to make own brand than that

I bet the sale will be great, a naked body model kit are a good base for custom, even if danny still sell the body for $300 (pichen body that cost 100-200 still sells like a hot cake)

a lot of mokit buldier will buy it to make custom, and the abs plastik would be a great bases for custom rather than vinyl, and because of a high demand there would be a lot of bootleg appeared haha

So how the mokit recaster make profit then?

When gundam or Frame arms girls has more parts than smd to be casted

I think You're kind of comparing apples and oranges here

 

Small figure (1/6 or smaller) is much easier to manufacture than big one.

1/3 is 2 times larger than 1/6, most people think so.

But it's 8 times the volume - it's more like 8x bigger molds, 8x more material, 8x production time, cost and supplies.

When You can sell 10 000 small kits and 100 big dolls, You will make much more profit from the small kits, even when the dolls are more expensive.

At least I can hope, that they will stick to the kits...

Here's another thought, Danny could use injection molds for the 1/6 Smart Dolls. Maybe that size was too expensive to make in vinyl, plus there's might be a good market for them with figure collectors.

I'm not interested in having a cheaper, shinier looking plastic doll with seam lines at all. Depends what the quality is like, but I fear that if he's going down the "quantity over quality route" then the plastic is bound to look (and feel) rather cheap. I've always preferred vinyl, staining has never worried me I always use common sense and put white undergarments on my dolls before putting on other clothes and checking them now and again for colour transfer. Then I just put the undergarments in the wash if need be, I've not had any problems with my Dollfie's anyway. But ugly seam lines are a turn off. I can contend with the seam lines on my far cheaper fashion dolls but I certainly wouldn't want it on my large ball jointed dollies. They'd have to be REALLY cheap for me to even consider a smart doll with seam lines and i'm doubtful somehow that they'll be that cheap. I'd rather pay the extra money and stick with vinyl so as long as Danny continues to offer the vinyl options i'm happy.

 

I wonder if he'll make the 1/2 scale Mirai with injection molds? The large size appeals to me but the potential cost of a doll that size is scary. If the cost was lowered, maybe 1/2 Mirai would be a more feasible option for customers.

 

My thought exactly. Actually it would make sense to make the 1/2 Mirai with injection molds because the vinyl would be so heavy- as he stated himself in a photograph carrying the 1/2 doll. Also the Pocket Mirai would make sense with injection molds.

 

I have handled Hujoo MSD-sized dolls in the ABS plastic and I agree with the person who commented earlier in this thread that they just don't have the same "feel". Also the ABS plastic is more prone to chip because it is a more brittle material.

 

As far as not staining- I'm not sure that's true. I think any material -vinyl, resin, ABS plastic or human skin- is going to stain if there is excess dye in the fabric of the garment. Vinyl may soak the dye in deeper, but I think dark clothes can stain plastic as well.

 

I wonder if he'll make the 1/2 scale Mirai with injection molds? The large size appeals to me but the potential cost of a doll that size is scary. If the cost was lowered, maybe 1/2 Mirai would be a more feasible option for customers.

 

My thought exactly. Actually it would make sense to make the 1/2 Mirai with injection molds because the vinyl would be so heavy- as he stated himself in a photograph carrying the 1/2 doll. Also the Pocket Mirai would make sense with injection molds.

 

I have handled Hujoo MSD-sized dolls in the ABS plastic and I agree with the person who commented earlier in this thread that they just don't have the same "feel". Also the ABS plastic is more prone to chip because it is a more brittle material.

 

As far as not staining- I'm not sure that's true. I think any material -vinyl, resin, ABS plastic or human skin- is going to stain if there is excess dye in the fabric of the garment. Vinyl may soak the dye in deeper, but I think dark clothes can stain plastic as well.

 

I agree, I own two Goodreau "Make It Mine" (or MIM) dolls, they are plastic (abs I believe). My first one became stained by putting black, pre-washed, arm sleeves and socks on her. After a week of acne treatments the staining has been reduced, but still very visible. The clothing was made for cheaper play dolls and must have been of poor quality because her dark grey TTYA leggings have never caused staining. All the same, they can stain.

I can also second the chipping, both my first MIM and all 6 of my Pullips have tape around the wrist or ankle joints to keep the cracks they have from spreading.

Light colored plastic also yellows much faster and is more noticeable than resin or vinyl, keep them out of the sun as much as possible.

 

I will probably get an injection mold just to see what the difference is and maybe keep as a more "play based" doll, but plastic dolls definitely have their own issues. There is no "perfect material" for doll making if they do anything but sit on a shelf behind glass, except maybe metal. . . lol.

There is no "perfect material" for doll making if they do anything but sit on a shelf behind glass, except maybe metal. . . lol.

 

There is a problem with metal--it'd cost a ton to ship, and would probably be problematic taking it on airplanes.

I wonder if Gourai would be switched to this injection version... But then again, I guess it depends on if Danny would run at a loss then...

I just thought that maybe he is planing two versions. One regular, or "human" version, out of vinyl and one with the armor/frame parts injection-style. It should be easier and/or cheaper to make a mecha version in that case, I believe.

A little late to the conversation, but wanted to throw in my two cents.

 

While this is an interesting development and I'm extremely curious to see how it goes, I honestly don't like the fact that the plastic version is basically the same exact thing as the expensive vinyl version. Like some said earlier it reminds me of when expensive clothing designers sell a cheaper brand to target or something. Even if smartdoll is marketed as a "first doll" they are still every bit as expensive as a DD. So as a snobby collector (lol) I feel like it cheapens the original a bit.

 

My gut reaction was that this is to expand the market to parents and teenagers, who cant/won't spend the money on the original. I immediately thought of American Girl, if he makes the cost $200- $300, I know it would sell well. Parents buy cell phones, computers, video games and tablets for kids all the time in that price range. Also at $200 kids could use christmas/birthday/saved allowence money to buy them. Speaking as a mom of two kids, my kids get that kind of money for birthdays and stuff from grandparents. And honestly (I might get some flack for this) but if one of my kids REALLY wanted one... I would probably buy for Christmas (as I usually spend that much on multiple presents) so it would just be one big gift instead of small gifts, and at $200 it's the same price as the 3ds I bought my son last year.

 

Finally, though I'm not crazy about it, it seems like a very smart option for that 1/2 beast mirai that he made... (that thing honestly frightens me... it's bigger than my daughter) and the pocket dolls. I wish that the plastic smart dolls were being made a different size like 1/4 so they would be a bit cheaper and not nessicarily be basically the same as the original... but I guess he would have to make a different frame and molds so this is the cheaper more profitable version for him.

 

Tldr: I don't like it, but it'll sell well to kids/teens.

I'm just going to be greedy and say I don't really like this move.

 

Having a much cheaper almost identical doll just screams an 'official recast' to me. It's very much like he's making bootlegs but of his own product.

 

When you compare them fully clothed in jeans, and long sleeves, they'd be harder to tell the difference compared to the vinyl line, and I don't like how you can 'appear' to have the same quality as as the more expensive doll (that's what he's marketing it as, by the tweet asking us to tell the difference)

 

I really had hoped he had used this to make a 1/4 scale, something that is not a straight rip-off of the vinyl line of dolls, and not in direct competition. But I guess then he can't get the sales on the official clothing. But if you're not wanting to spend that much on a vinyl doll, you're likely not going to spend hundreds on his official clothes, I don't get it.

Having a much cheaper almost identical doll just screams an 'official recast' to me. It's very much like he's making bootlegs but of his own product.

 

'official recast'...꒪ᴗ꒪

 

I don't like how you can 'appear' to have the same quality as as the more expensive doll

 

Many companies produce a cheaper line to extend availability. So as long as he does not plan to replace the vinyl dolls, then what is so bad about it? Is it not a good thing to extend the brand, or rather, to add a cheaper alternative, to keep the business lucrative/afloat?

 

Your comment strikes me as an entitlement, or, so called, elitist-"issue"... To appear to have a more expensive item than one does...

 

I am not saying that everyone has to like it, no, I just want to know if I am missing some aspect here.

So could you clarify what you meant? - Why do you not like it?

I'm just going to be greedy and say I don't really like this move.

 

At least you're being honest about that point I guess...

 

Having a much cheaper almost identical doll just screams an 'official recast' to me. It's very much like he's making bootlegs but of his own product.

 

Wew lad.

If it's officially made by him then it's not a bootleg or a recast. A bootleg is a knock off product produced by somebody else, and an "official recast" is an oxymoron because a recast is made by taking an existing thing, making a new mold based off it and then making copies based off that secondary mold. firther more the idea is to make something that's imitating the original with the intent of fooling people into believing it is in-fact the original Your point doesn't even make sense in the spirit of those terms...

 

When you compare them fully clothed in jeans, and long sleeves, they'd be harder to tell the difference compared to the vinyl line, and I don't like how you can 'appear' to have the same quality as as the more expensive doll (that's what he's marketing it as, by the tweet asking us to tell the difference)

 

They are going to be the same level of quality as the vinyls. It's literally just a different material with different drawbacks and plus sides. It's going to be just as functional and professionally done as the vinyl dolls. Quality is a complete spook here. It's only lower quality in your mind because the material happens to be cheaper to construct things with. To someone who hates the staining issue with vinyl this would be higher quality by far. He's marketing it as a good alternative to vinyl. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

I really had hoped he had used this to make a 1/4 scale, something that is not a straight rip-off of the vinyl line of dolls, and not in direct competition. But I guess then he can't get the sales on the official clothing. But if you're not wanting to spend that much on a vinyl doll, you're likely not going to spend hundreds on his official clothes, I don't get it.

 

I'd be shocked if he didn't plan on using this with the Mirai Machine or pocket dolls, both of which are a different scale but that's beside the point. They're not a rip-off because at no point is Danny trying to falsely advertise the product as better than it is, or trying to trick people into thinking this is the same as the vinyl line. I don't think these terms mean what you think they mean. They're not in direct competition either because they're not the same kind of product. They're not made of vinyl. There are people who would much prefer vinyl myself included. This is a different product for a market of people who don't want or care about vinyl but still want an anime styled third scale doll. One of the benefits happens to be a lower price point which makes them more accessible to people who can't just drop 500-600 bucks for a doll.

This is like getting your knickers in a twist over a high end brand of sunglasses making a branch off brand that sells different styles of sunglasses made of different materials for a cheaper price because how dare the plebs have nice things! That's for rich people!

 

This is not a bad thing. Vinyl is not being replaced. This is not a rip-off, knock-off, recast, or anything of the sort. Those are objective terms for things, not insults to use because you have an issue with a company expanding it's potential market to those less financially off than yourself. There's no logical reason to be so butthurt over this. You look down upon it because it costs less, and the logical conclusion of that is that you'll look down on people who would take this product over the vinyl one. I don't think I'm the only person here who finds that kind of attitude unwelcome here.

Yikes.

Well- I personally will always prefer vinyl to the plastic ones because I think vinyl is sturdier and less prone to chipping.

I don't care if someone prefers to spend less on the plastic version, and once dressed, there probably won't be a huge difference. In fact I would not be surprised if he still uses vinyl heads on the plastic bodies (I don't know anything about his plans, just guessing).

I think if you are someone who likes to dress your doll and display her on the shelf, the plastic ones will be fine. If you like to haul them around and take pictures, etc. in my opinion it might be worth it to go ahead and spring for the more expensive version. Although granted the plastic ones should be lighter to carry around, so there is that.

 

But one thing for sure: there are no rules, in spite of what a lot of people seem to think. There is no right or wrong. Do what is right for you. If I take my Smart Doll to a meet-up and find someone there with a plastic one- I'm not going to look down on them or think mine is better. In fact, I will be interested to see one in real life.

 

So- you have to make the choice that is right for you. I personally prefer vinyl but it doesn't bother me one whit if someone else chooses the plastic.

Yeah, I believe the injection molded dolls will be most successful if marketed to a different niche--ie, as an alternative to American Girl, or maybe in the style of the Disney/Barbie limited editions, which are shelf babies where the clothes and faceup are the main draw.

 

Though, in order to hit those market niches, Danny will have to modify his approach for the injection line: cheaper, more innocent clothes for the American Girl type niche, and window boxes for limited editions for the shelf baby crowd. And so far I haven't seen any indication of branding the injection mold line in any such way, so it's hard to call which direction he's taking it.

 

I do think that if he tries to use the same packaging/clothes/marketing model for the injection dolls, though, it'll be a mess. His current market of vinyl lovers, like us, are clearly Not Interested. We are NOT the ideal market niche for the injection molded dolls.

 

TL;DR: The injection molded dolls could succeed if they fall in a different market niche--and those of us on this forum are not that niche, for the most part. We'll see if Danny actually finds the right niche for the injection molded dolls, though, since so far he's revealed exactly zero differentiation besides the material/molding technique.

I think what he's going for is literally just people who are interested in a 1/3 scale anime doll but can't really get into it because of the cost. I have quite a few friends who fall into that group and they don't really care about whether it's vinyl or not, and some of them even said they'd like to not worry about stains so much. They're very interested in this for obvious reasons, and there's a lot of people that fall into this catagory certainly, just we're a bit disconnected from it I'll bet. We don't really have the financial trouble of getting into this hobby and we're all used to vinyl so naturally we'd be picky about it, lol. This is kinda like how we keep complaining about Danny's flat sculpts when most of us are used to volks dolls, while your average person either wouldn't care too much or would outright prefer Danny's aesthetics. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

I have to say though if I had a kid who wanted a doll like this, I'd much rather they pine after a smartdoll cause then I at least wouldn't get the creeps from the doll. It's the eyes man... And if I had a kid who I felt would be responsible with it, I'd totally get it for them. Then again I love to enable those close to me to get all the dolls! lol

I'm definitely considering the injection molds; guess that makes me a small minority here, huh? Most people my age don't have the money to even consider this hobby, and I also collect scale figures and nendoroids. And yes, I saved up and earned the money myself, besides the pity money I got for having cancer (in remission now). When I was 13, or even younger, I fell in love with Dollfie Dream Beatrice, but there was no way in hell I could afford her or any Dollfie Dream. As a high school teen, I definitely would have wanted an SmD injection version.

 

I'm sure other anime figure collectors would be interested in a 1/3 scale anime-styled doll. Although, if customizing them to look like popular characters was more accessible, they would have even more of an appeal. That's basically like exclusive character Dollfie Dreams though, or maybe a better comparison would be Azone's take on anime characters. Not to mention, Real Action Heroes (not dolls, but you know...) that are actually plastic action figures with clothing. Someone actually called my Saber RAH a doll. I actually do have Azone clothing for my RAHs, and I guess that fueled my desire for an actual doll/DD even more. I think some would (and some already) see 1/3 scale dolls as XL actions figures, but prettier obviously.

 

I do prefer vinyl, as it's sturdier for my clumsiness and for outdoor photography. Plastic is still fine for it, just with extra caution. I actually dropped my Saber Alter DD at an anime convention recently but she's perfectly fine (not a high fall). I definitely can't do that with figures, or even bring them around like that. Not sure how well injection molds could hold up against accidents like that.

 

I really love Danny's new girls like Moonlight, Sana, Summer, etc. but realistically I can't buy all of them as I'm still figure collecting too (and going back to school ). If injection is available for all characters, I'd be a happy camper because I could probably get most of the girls I like. I think I would want to start off with a vinyl though, depending on who I think I'd take out most.

 

TL;DR, I think anime figure collectors, like myself, would be interested and wouldn't mind the material as much.

 

PS: Sorry for comparing DDs to RAHs if that somehow offends someone (?). Seems like there's a bit of elitism regarding materials lingering around...

I'm another in the injection mold camp. Resin, vinyl, plastic...Doesn't matter to me as long as the product is of quality and I like how it looks. I totally admit I am personally 100% not interested in a SmD at $500. Knock it down to $250-$300 and now we'll talk lol. Take the head off and offer only the body too...And now I am PRETTY dang interested. And from that, that's partially where Danny will be making extra cash. From people who will go from "no way" to "hey, now I'm looking at this as an option to me." Or from people who currently do want one but can't afford the vinyl price. And to anyone who wants to stick their nose up at people for not being able to afford the vinyl price...You got problems to work out with that elitism. Why don't poor people just make more money, amiright? /sarcasm Plus, not everyone is gonna want the vinyl version to begin with. Seam lines don't bother everyone and not worrying about staining is a big plus.

 

I don't give a rat's behind if someone looks down on me for not spending money unnecessarily though. If I can get a better deal and save money...Why wouldn't I? All my dolls are "budget" dolls. $300 or less head and body. Both for practicality reasons...And because yeah, I can't afford $600+ on one doll at this stage of my life. I have a sneaking suspicion that a character I want will be coming out maybe next year or the next after as a DD...I'm starting to save for that now. Because that's what's going to work for me. Sorry to make the "elite" associate with a filthy commoner such as myself :^) and I regret to inform people that there are a lot more people in this hobby like me out there. It happens for many through saving and spending strategically.

 

(Though I laugh at some post I saw a year or so ago on another site that was essentially "Vinyl Kiddies get out"/"They're basically playline dolls" so even if I do have an expensive fullset DD or SmD, someone STILL thinks their dolls' material is the "true" one lol! It's just ridiculous.)

 

So now I'll wait for pricing on these. I still hope he's gonna do pocket dolls though. Those are the ones I wanted the most.

Danny posted this on his social media yesterday:

The worlds first 1/3 scale injection molded fashion doll kit is brought to you by Smartdoll Technologies. Stress & impact testing phase. Just in time for our American action hero and game licenses to which require us to make tens of thousands per character.

 

It makes me simultaneously happy and worried.

Happy that he is becoming more and more successful.

Worried that it might affect production or slow down new releases of Smart Dolls.

Oooh, licensing weirdness. Somehow that hadn't occurred to me, but makes a ton of sense. Especially American licenses. I know the character of my own wonky home country.

 

Wonder what licenses he has/is courting, though?