Injection vs vinyl

On one of Danny's tweets in Japanese it reads "ソフビのNGは大赤字なのでこれが続くとコーテックスに切り替えるしかない。" which is translated as: "Soft vinyl NG is a large deficit, so if this continues, we have no choice but to switch to Cortex" (using automatic software).

I saw this coming once we knew Cortex was actually going to happen, plus some of the off to the side stuff he's said. So if you want a vinyl girl, I'd start making plans, just a heads up.

2 hours ago, kranberrijam said:

On one of Danny's tweets in Japanese it reads "ソフビのNGは大赤字なのでこれが続くとコーテックスに切り替えるしかない。" which is translated as: "Soft vinyl NG is a large deficit, so if this continues, we have no choice but to switch to Cortex" (using automatic software).

I saw this coming once we knew Cortex was actually going to happen, plus some of the off to the side stuff he's said. So if you want a vinyl girl, I'd start making plans, just a heads up.

The Mirai Store usually also sells B-stock items at a reduced price. I'd say that is, what he is referring to with NG (in Japanese this is used as the opposite of OK).

In the tweet Danny announces an in-store mega sale, where you can buy a bag at a fixed rate and stuff it full of vinyl parts. He goes on to describe how this works exactly and closes with the sentence above, that I interpret as follows:

"Vinyl production yields too much B-stock, if this continues we'll have to switch to cortex."

So the sky may not be falling immediately, but this is still worrying. The fact that he is sidelining vinyl before cortex is even properly out, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth...

 

Nonetheless @kranberrijam thanks for linking. Apparently he is also planning to sell body+head for ~30000Yen. I think I'll stop by and try to get me a Summer, Sana or Starlight.

Yeah, I'm not surprised at all to read that. My guess is that once Cortex has launched, vinyl will be gone within 2 years.

It does make me a bit sad 'cause I love the vinyl girls. Seriously, Smart Doll is one of the few companies that I follow and where I love a lot of their dolls and products 

Edited June 21, 2019 by Eiko82

15 hours ago, Tierparkzone said:

The Mirai Store usually also sells B-stock items at a reduced price. I'd say that is, what he is referring to with NG (in Japanese this is used as the opposite of OK).

In the tweet Danny announces an in-store mega sale, where you can buy a bag at a fixed rate and stuff it full of vinyl parts. He goes on to describe how this works exactly and closes with the sentence above, that I interpret as follows:

"Vinyl production yields too much B-stock, if this continues we'll have to switch to cortex."

So the sky may not be falling immediately, but this is still worrying. The fact that he is sidelining vinyl before cortex is even properly out, leaves a bitter taste in my mouth...

 

Nonetheless @kranberrijam thanks for linking. Apparently he is also planning to sell body+head for ~30000Yen. I think I'll stop by and try to get me a Summer, Sana or Starlight.

Sorry if I made it sound like "ohgods, get your vinyl tomorrow!!" which I didn't mean to (darn typing). I just found it very interesting that is was placed in a random Twitter thread, no English, and kind of just there. That's why I posted it here as soon as I saw it, just in case it disappeared or anything. Guess I should have mentioned the outlet sale too, but considering I don't live in Japan, I didn't even think about it. 😛

But I do agree, this does make me go 😕. While I think Cortex is interesting, there are definitely issues with it and I don't think it can replace vinyl. But we have seen other cost-cutting methods lately (such as limiting dolls and the clothes staining) so I figured vinyl would be out due to how much more cheaper he could produce the Cortex (wait for the hair to be plastic in the future too, that wouldn't surprise me either). I own a BRS RAH and while it's nice, she feels so much more fragile than my vinyl dolls, so I've never really played with her and will sell her one day when I can find a buyer. Compared to vinyl, she also feels, well, cheaper. That's the closest thing I can think of that I personally have to compare it, but if anyone can chime in with more information, please do! Will probably never buy directly from the company anyway, so please know that I don't actually own a Smart Doll, but I have held and played with several. Prowess is the first one that I've actually LIKED and would love to have one from the outlet sale, but ahwell, can't have it all.

Edited June 22, 2019 by kranberrijam

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Edited June 6, 2020 by AmaFromEU

I hate to say it but I saw this one coming.    I have no idea what his costs are for the vinyls or the Cortex but assuming it's as big a difference as he keeps hinting at, he only stands to gain by phasing out vinyl dolls.  He already has all the molds for the Cortex and can pump out thousands of them a month compared to the 1000 he says is his maximum output of vinyl dolls per month.  

 

He may still produce vinyl heads and hands tho, reserving them for special collab projects or licensed characters.  But that's a guess.

 

My only issue is that if he does replace vinyls with Cortex then the aftermarket pricing for the vinyls is going to skyrocket.  Just look what happened when he changed the old cocoa color for the new one.  While in production, that color wasn't super popular overall.  But once it was discontinued, the aftermarket went nuts and pricing for those girls doubled.  Seriously.  I have had 2 offers on my Moonlight Diana for $1000 and another for $1200.  While there's no way I'm planning to sell her, this does show that there's a demand for that skin tone as well as discontinued girls.  Just check for a Kurenai on the aftermarket.... she's the same head as Moonlight ( which it turns out was one of the most popular head molds AFTER she was discontinued ) and is pretty rare.  I saw one listed on YJA that sold for $900 USD and she was nude.  No wig or clothing, just her eyes, head and body.  

 

So yeah, while it may not happen overnight, the vinyl purge is coming.  So grab whatever vinyl pretties you're after while you can.  I personally am going to grab a Prowess ASAP because I really love her look and style.  I asked Danny when she is coming out in Cortex and he said there were no plans for her yet so that means I either have to pray she's released sometime in the future or I grab one now before the switch is made.  

 

 

Billy

Him mentioning of the possibility of vinyl being discontinued in favor of cortex has me feeling a flood of emotions, none of which are good. Say he does discontinue vinyl not this year or next but in the next few years. What happens if parts on our vinyl dolls break? Are we just SOL then?

 

I  really upset over this and upset that someone had contacted him to confirming this statement to which he has yet to respond (as of this post), but then he responded to someone who asked if he could make one of the rejected dolls an actual doll because people loved her so much. Is the elephant in the room going to be ignored now? I'm sorry, not meaning to upset anyone if I am as I am just flustered myself.

 

I love my Harmony I just recently purchased, but had I known that vinyl would possibly discontinued (in the future?) I may have considered an alternative or even a DD. If the price of vinyl dolls skyrockets, it wouldn't tempt me to sell my girls but only because if they break, game over. I'm almost afraid to handle them now as if I am trying to preserve them, and that is the opposite of why I originally purchased them.

 

I wish Danny would just offer to sell vinyl parts for our dollies when they break. Heck, even B grade vinyl parts for sale online would be awesome.

 

(Side note: Danny had mad 10 Moonlight girls in the new cocoa skin and then said the mold broke, so that was the end of her. Why is there a Moonlight up for grabs in the outlet sale? He's had a few of these that I know of in the past year.:( )

On 6/22/2019 at 4:28 PM, Deyja said:

Him mentioning of the possibility of vinyl being discontinued in favor of cortex has me feeling a flood of emotions, none of which are good. Say he does discontinue vinyl not this year or next but in the next few years. What happens if parts on our vinyl dolls break? Are we just SOL then?

 

Aren't we always SOL when our dolls break? I have a couple of resin BJDs and if any of them would break, then yeah, there is no replacing their broken parts. The same goes for limited Dollfie heads. If I damage my DD Rise head, the only way I can get a new one is through the secondary market. 

As for the Moonlight head in the outlet store, Danny said that she is actually a darker shade than the new cocoa. My guess is that when Danny was doing colour samples for new cocoa, he printed several heads in several shades of cocoa to see which one he liked the best. That shade of cocoa never made it into production. 

When it comes to the Twilight/Kurenai/Moonlight sculpt, I know that I'm biased af but I'll never understand why Danny didn't re-release it. As Baldy has already mentioned, the secondary prices for this sculpt is nuts sometimes. Whilst it might not have been as popular as Mirai back in 2016, it's obvious that a lot of people would buy that sculpt if it was available again. Every time I've taken my Kurenai to a doll meet, I've always had people interested in buying one and it kinda sucks to have to tell them that she is a discontinued sculpt. 

Anyways, what I'm curious about is if Danny is losing so much money on rejected vinyl parts, do other companies like Volks and Azone suffer the same losses? Do they also have to throw away so many vinyl parts?

6 minutes ago, Eiko82 said:

Anyways, what I'm curious about is if Danny is losing so much money on rejected vinyl parts, do other companies like Volks and Azone suffer the same losses? Do they also have to throw away so many vinyl parts?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the high price tag was because Danny produced everything in Japan, which is definitely more expensive than outsourcing to different countries. Volks and Azone have also been in business longer so maybe they figured out a way to streamline the process and make it cheaper. This is all mostly speculations, but its not secret that Danny has chosen the more expensive way to produce vinyl dolls. 

Doesn't Volks own their factory?  Azone partners with Obitsu for their 1/3 scale dolls, and Obitsu totally owns factories.  Danby is contracting with a factory that most likely manufactures goods for other, unrelated companies, who take up time on the production line.  Probably why he can only do about 1000 vinyl dolls a month.  

Even if Volks can only pump out 1000 DDf-3 bodies a month ( I suspect they have more than one mold per body type, too), they own the factory, rather than "rent" as it were.  

So, yes, Volks and Obitsu probably have streamlined things.  Danny could buy his own factory, someday.  I think contracting out the way he did was the smart way to start the business, though.  

8 hours ago, Eiko82 said:

Aren't we always SOL when our dolls break? I have a couple of resin BJDs and if any of them would break, then yeah, there is no replacing their broken parts. The same goes for limited Dollfie heads. If I damage my DD Rise head, the only way I can get a new one is through the secondary market.

Yes, I suppose so. I'm afraid I am relatively new to vinyl dolls and know next to little about DD and nothing about resin dolls. I was under the impression that you could buy hands/parts for Volks dolls, so I apologize if I am wrong.

8 hours ago, Eiko82 said:

As for the Moonlight head in the outlet store, Danny said that she is actually a darker shade than the new cocoa. My guess is that when Danny was doing colour samples for new cocoa, he printed several heads in several shades of cocoa to see which one he liked the best. That shade of cocoa never made it into production.

That makes sense, but it seems like he would have sold off the head in previous outlets. Maybe it got overlooked. I agree with you though; I don't understand why Danny didn't/does not make another Moonlight/Twilight mold. Any version of her would sell like crazy especially after the popularity spike in Smart Dolls. I wasn't a fan of the face when I came into them, but I love it now and appreciate it because of how unique it is. I'm super sad that the old cocoa skin is discontinued it. I know it wasn't realistic, but it would have been perfect for a fantasy color; I think it is beautiful.

5 hours ago, Deyja said:

Yes, I suppose so. I'm afraid I am relatively new to vinyl dolls and know next to little about DD and nothing about resin dolls. I was under the impression that you could buy hands/parts for Volks dolls, so I apologize if I am wrong.

No, I do not know what Eiko82 is on about there...
You can pretty much buy a Dollfie Dream in all parts and build it yourself - Volks sells parts. Most resin companies will offer/sell replacement parts, when contacted, if your doll breaks too.
(And limited heads/parts aside in either case)

I'm pretty sure the internal pieces are the same between the vinyl and Cortex versions, so the only parts that would be hard to replace would be the external pieces, which aren't as likely to break. 

I think the problem with Moonlight/Twilight was that, while Danny could make another mold for her, it'd cost the same as making a mold for a new head.  And he seems more interested in creating new dolls than replacing/keeping up with current dolls.  I feel like his release schedule is more similar to someone customizing a new doll for their personal collection rather than a typical business plan.

The biggest disappointment to me is his lack of investment in his boy dolls.  It feels like he only made them as a way to claim he had a unique product, but he doesn't really care about them at all.  Of course they don't sell as well as the girl dolls; there's only one sculpt, only two out of three skintones, and only one version per skintone.  Plus, they're not advertised nearly as much and don't have as many clothes and accessories available.  As a creator, he should be attached to all his dolls, not just the ones that are attractive girls.

Yeah, slightly of topic, but the plethora of new vinyl girls coming out is certainly s stark contrast to the two boys that don't even have alternate faceups. Now that Volks is releasing their boys as Dream Choice options, well...

https://twitter.com/dannychoo/status/1149956706979336192?s=19

New tweet from Danny. Cortex Gaia is going on sale in limited quantities. 

Price?? 29 800 yen (about $277USD) for the most difficult assembly, the Final Boss Grade (FBG).

I've seen some people say that the cortex is hard to put together. Is the 42.5% price decrease worth it you think??

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Edited June 6, 2020 by AmaFromEU

1 hour ago, MaKayla_Panda said:

https://twitter.com/dannychoo/status/1149956706979336192?s=19

New tweet from Danny. Cortex Gaia is going on sale in limited quantities. 

Price?? 29 800 yen (about $277USD) for the most difficult assembly, the Final Boss Grade (FBG).

I've seen some people say that the cortex is hard to put together. Is the 42.5% price decrease worth it you think??

From the pricing he shared above, I'm still confused by what the kit names mean.  I got the "Ninja Grade" kit from him and it would only take about an hour to build with no distractions.  Supposedly, the "Final Boss Grade" kit is supposed to have everything built by you, including the inner frame.  The NG kit I have already had the frame built, I just had to put it together along with the body.  But if the FBG kit has you building the frame from pieces then I can see why it costs less.

What's confusing to me tho is the photo he supplied with the announcement.  It shows Gaia with one large bag of parts on her left ( which looks identical to how my NG kit arrived ) and several bags to her right ( supposedly the FBG kit? ).  But the separate bag with the frame only inside it looks like it is completely built already, just like in my kit.  So what are the differences between them?  Maybe he will be more clear soon.

Also to answer your other question, I had fun building my Cortex body so the discount is well worth it to me.  The only bad thing is that the only clothing available so far is just the bra and panty set.  Sure, it only costs $50 more for that which isn't terrible but it's still more than a Volks bra and panty set.

Hopefully more info will be available soon to answer these questions so we all feel a bit better about where all this is going.  I'm wanting to build a Cortex from the ground up tho, meaning I want the frame and everything still on the plastic sprues like when you build a Gundam kit.  He said he would release that style eventually and if he did, it would be the least expensive version because there would be no work involved for him or his staff.  If I could get one of those for like $100-$150 then that'd be great.  A full blank doll ( head included ) would be great for customizing and such!

 

 

Billy

As far as I'm concerned, the discount for building the frame yourself would be worth it, as the difficulty doesn't bother me and I'd love the challenge of doing it - a still-on-the-sprues version of the Cortex kit would be even better imo. The only thing that concerns me around building the frame is the tools required, specifically for the spine, as it looks much like the toy skeleton by Parabox and that requires special pliers to put together. As long as I can get hold of any tools I'm missing then that's great, I just wouldn't want to buy a kit and then discover that I simply can't get hold of a vital tool needed to put it all together.

Edited July 13, 2019 by Zaliayn

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Edited June 6, 2020 by AmaFromEU

Cortex prices are up on the website now. This is for Smart Doll - Gaia (Cortex Version) that will only be available in the store tomorrow. You can’t buy them online yet. I’m not sure if these will be the official prices for the full release, but it brakes down to this:

$368.81 for the sports bra set 

$322.48 for the ninja kit with no sports bra.

$276.14 for the final boss kit with no sports bra.

Edited July 13, 2019 by 20blackbags

Copy/pasting this from the release thread:

I ran the Japanese text through Google Translate and the Bra set is an assembled doll. So the price difference between a bra set Cortex doll and a bra set vinyl doll is 12.400 JPY (approx 100 EUR). I can only speak for myself but for that amount, it's not worth it for me to switch to Cortex.

It also says that there are no instructions for the kits and no warranty for broken parts. If you break a part during assembly, you can buy the extra parts for these prices:

ARMS SHELL (both arms shell) - 6.900 yen
TORSO SHELL (shell of the body) - 7.900 yen
LEGS SHELL (both legs of the shell) - 8.900 yen
FRAME COMPLETE (assembled frame) - 18.000 yen
FRAME (not assembled) - 9.900 yen

2 hours ago, Eiko82 said:

Copy/pasting this from the release thread:

I ran the Japanese text through Google Translate and the Bra set is an assembled doll. So the price difference between a bra set Cortex doll and a bra set vinyl doll is 12.400 JPY (approx 100 EUR). I can only speak for myself but for that amount, it's not worth it for me to switch to Cortex.
 

I think the draw for Cortex are new doll owners. The cost of entry into this hobby is definitely a steep one and having a cheaper option around definitely eases the mind. People who are more used to vinyl are least likely to switch and definitely aren't the target demographic. 

4 hours ago, baldylox said:

From the pricing he shared above, I'm still confused by what the kit names mean.  I got the "Ninja Grade" kit from him and it would only take about an hour to build with no distractions.  Supposedly, the "Final Boss Grade" kit is supposed to have everything built by you, including the inner frame.  The NG kit I have already had the frame built, I just had to put it together along with the body.  But if the FBG kit has you building the frame from pieces then I can see why it costs less.

What's confusing to me tho is the photo he supplied with the announcement.  It shows Gaia with one large bag of parts on her left ( which looks identical to how my NG kit arrived ) and several bags to her right ( supposedly the FBG kit? ).  But the separate bag with the frame only inside it looks like it is completely built already, just like in my kit.  So what are the differences between them?  Maybe he will be more clear soon.

Also to answer your other question, I had fun building my Cortex body so the discount is well worth it to me.  The only bad thing is that the only clothing available so far is just the bra and panty set.  Sure, it only costs $50 more for that which isn't terrible but it's still more than a Volks bra and panty set.

Hopefully more info will be available soon to answer these questions so we all feel a bit better about where all this is going.  I'm wanting to build a Cortex from the ground up tho, meaning I want the frame and everything still on the plastic sprues like when you build a Gundam kit.  He said he would release that style eventually and if he did, it would be the least expensive version because there would be no work involved for him or his staff.  If I could get one of those for like $100-$150 then that'd be great.  A full blank doll ( head included ) would be great for customizing and such!

 

 

Billy

It appears that those pictures are the ninja grade on one side and the replacement parts on the other side...at least they match up with the description of the replacement parts and how they will be sold?

I had the cortex and didn't care for it. I was willing to consider switching from vinyl if the price was right, but I feel that for this price I will stick with the vinyl. I know the price can change so we will see what happens over time. Right now I am in no position to buy anything so for me it is a moot point. Eventually I hope to be able to buy again, and as it stands right now vinyl will be my choice.

57 minutes ago, jenlovesdolls said:

It appears that those pictures are the ninja grade on one side and the replacement parts on the other side...at least they match up with the description of the replacement parts and how they will be sold?

Ahhh, that makes sense.  I didn't see the connection before but now with the Japanese text translated, it clicks.  Thanks for that bit of info!

 

 

Billy