Dollfie Dream F3

@Noxxbunny and @BeyondTime you guys are awesome at answering questions! I know I can deal with little differences, but a huge one would be a deal breaker for me. It sounds like there wouldn't be much of a shade difference. I've been looking at the new body because it seems like the leg joints are less likely to pop off and that has been my biggest problem with Miku. Most of the time it is my fault, but I would like them to be sturdier.

(I apologize for the nerco, but I didn't want to start a new thread just for this.)

Anyways, I've fallen hard for the DDP body, but I /really/ do not like the idea of having to go in and tighten all these screws myself, since I'm disabled and lack the hand strength to do so. The less sturdy dollies are out of the box, the more frustrated I am. This idea also makes me very wary of stability being lost over time far more quickly than, say, the older DD3 frame would.

Does anyone who's owned a F3 body for awhile have thoughts on this? I'm planning a new character and I'm wondering if I should just grab a SWS MDD3 before they vanish altogether, despite having had a bad experience with my MDD3 Liliru and her uneven legs. I'm also wondering if the more recent F3 bodies are sturdier, too, because it definitely seems that Volks pushed out the new frame without working out all the kinks properly.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Selenae

My observation would be if you have the hand strength to pose them, tightening them shouldn't be an issue. Disassembly might be. I would say it's a bit harder to remove the upper torso from the F3 than it is with the DDIII.

The only part I've found needs tightening right off is the ankles, but if there is a screw for that I have yet to find it.

1 hour ago, Selenae said:

Does anyone who's owned a F3 body for awhile have thoughts on this? I'm planning a new character and I'm wondering if I should just grab a SWS MDD3 before they vanish altogether, despite having had a bad experience with my MDD3 Liliru and her uneven legs.

Definitely get an f3 body. I have three f3 bodies,

• DDP Iori: Fine out of the box, still fine after almost 2 years.
• Melty's new DDS-f3 body, a few months old. No issues.
• MDD-f3 body I picked up at Doll Point in Akihabara. Loose hip.

For the MDD I used the Dream Choice service in Japan where you make a custom doll. They actually give you the body to let you check before buying to see if there's any issues with it. I tried moving the joints and it seemed fine, and everything moved smoothly. A couple days later, the day I was leaving I noticed that the hips were kind of loose. It only mattered if I raised the leg a little bit; if I raised it a lot (like a 30° angle or more), it had no problem keeping that position. But it could 'jiggle' a little bit if you moved the leg, it wasn't stiff. I didn't notice that when checking the body the first time 😛

When I did notice, I was actually at Doll Point taking pictures, and the guy who help me build the doll came up to say hi. I felt like mentioning it (they give you a 1 year warranty but you have to be there), but my flight home was in a few hours, so oh well.

The loose joints were the hip joints #11 on both legs and #10. Dealing with joint #10 was really easy. It was surprisingly easy to take out, and it didn't even need to be tightened all the way. I just gently turned the screw to increase tension. It was capable of turning a lot more, all I was doing was setting the tension I wanted, not making it tight.

The #11 hip joints OTOH are a royal pain in the butt because you have to pull the part out of the vinyl. If you have to deal with that I'm guessing you won't have much luck. They also need to be really tight because they have to hold the weight of the entire leg by themselves. TBH I think there's a limit to how stiff they can be, they were actually pretty stiff already when I was holding the part alone in my hand. If you receive the doll and and the hips are too loose just get it exchanged. In my case whoever assembled my doll's frame was a bit lazy around the waist, and I didn't notice when they let me check it before buying.

You really want an f3 MDD though, it poses beautifully. If you compare the MDD f3 frame and the DD/DDS/DDdy f3-frame they're nearly identical in terms of where the joints are and how you can bend them. The only thing holding back the MDD from posing as well as the larger bodies is that the vinyl gets in the way more.

1 hour ago, Selenae said:

it definitely seems that Volks pushed out the new frame without working out all the kinks properly

I don't see how 🤔 When the DD3/DDS was released it was a total trainwreck with the shoulder and hip joints cracking. It took them a couple years to fix that. There aren't any design flaws with the f3, you just have people dealing with a new, unfamiliar body. We're talking about loose joints, but if you get a DD3 with loose joints there's no good way to deal with it, you've got a bad doll. OTOH my MDD girl is perfect now  

53 minutes ago, foo said:

Definitely get an f3 body. I have three f3 bodies,

• DDP Iori: Fine out of the box, still fine after almost 2 years.
• Melty's new DDS-f3 body, a few months old. No issues.
• MDD-f3 body I picked up at Doll Point in Akihabara. Loose hip.

For the MDD I used the Dream Choice service in Japan where you make a custom doll. They actually give you the body to let you check before buying to see if there's any issues with it. I tried moving the joints and it seemed fine, and everything moved smoothly. A couple days later, the day I was leaving I noticed that the hips were kind of loose. It only mattered if I raised the leg a little bit; if I raised it a lot (like a 30° angle or more), it had no problem keeping that position. But it could 'jiggle' a little bit if you moved the leg, it wasn't stiff. I didn't notice that when checking the body the first time 😛

When I did notice, I was actually at Doll Point taking pictures, and the guy who help me build the doll came up to say hi. I felt like mentioning it (they give you a 1 year warranty but you have to be there), but my flight home was in a few hours, so oh well.

The loose joints were the hip joints #11 on both legs and #10. Dealing with joint #10 was really easy. It was surprisingly easy to take out, and it didn't even need to be tightened all the way. I just gently turned the screw to increase tension. It was capable of turning a lot more, all I was doing was setting the tension I wanted, not making it tight.

The #11 hip joints OTOH are a royal pain in the butt because you have to pull the part out of the vinyl. If you have to deal with that I'm guessing you won't have much luck. They also need to be really tight because they have to hold the weight of the entire leg by themselves. TBH I think there's a limit to how stiff they can be, they were actually pretty stiff already when I was holding the part alone in my hand. If you receive the doll and and the hips are too loose just get it exchanged. In my case whoever assembled my doll's frame was a bit lazy around the waist, and I didn't notice when they let me check it before buying.

You really want an f3 MDD though, it poses beautifully. If you compare the MDD f3 frame and the DD/DDS/DDdy f3-frame they're nearly identical in terms of where the joints are and how you can bend them. The only thing holding back the MDD from posing as well as the larger bodies is that the vinyl gets in the way more.

I don't see how 🤔 When the DD3/DDS was released it was a total trainwreck with the shoulder and hip joints cracking. It took them a couple years to fix that. There aren't any design flaws with the f3, you just have people dealing with a new, unfamiliar body. We're talking about loose joints, but if you get a DD3 with loose joints there's no good way to deal with it, you've got a bad doll. OTOH my MDD girl is perfect now  

Ah, thank you very much for detailing your experience so far; I really appreciate it. Yeah, my biggest concern is that I'll wind up with a body with loose joints that I can't easily access like the hip joints. I've never dealt with having to de-shell a vinyl doll part before and it really sounds difficult. I'm wondering if I might be better off piecing a body together, that way I can tighten parts as I go along instead of worrying about needing to tighten a full body right out the box.

I suppose my thinking that the F3 release was rushed comes from the idea that more screws = less stability. By the way, how do you like the DDP body? Do you have elbow issues with your Iori?

21 minutes ago, Selenae said:

I've never dealt with having to de-shell a vinyl doll part before and it really sounds difficult.

TBH I never had to do that before but it's pretty easy with the f3. All the body parts are designed to just pull apart and plug together, and they connect snugly. Like the hips on the old bodies, the legs often liked to migrate outwards as you used the doll over time making you squish them back into the body. Same thing with the arms.

Actually this is worth pointing out; on the f3 the part of the arm/shoulder that does the rotation is separate from the peg that you plug into the body. 

You can see the peg for the arm goes into a socket, but that socket is attached to a ball. It's the ball that rotates when you move the arm. On the old bodies there were no moving parts like that, if you rotated the arm, the shoulder peg would rotate inside the shoulder socket. So as you kept moving the arms or legs, they would gradually come apart over time until you squished them back into the body.

21 minutes ago, Selenae said:

I'm wondering if I might be better off piecing a body together, that way I can tighten parts as I go along instead of worrying about needing to tighten a full body right out the box.

Honestly don't worry about it. Like I said stuff is easy to take apart, as long as you don't have to deal with the hip joints (~_~#) If you do have to deal with those, buying in parts won't help you because that part comes assembled.

21 minutes ago, Selenae said:

By the way, how do you like the DDP body? Do you have elbow issues with your Iori?

I love it ٩(ˊᗜˋ*)و It's such a great size and poses so nicely. It is smaller than the DD/DDS frames, so poseability is more limited because vinyl bumps into itself like with MDDs (it's nowhere near as bad as MDD of course). Honestly the size is a lot more playful, and she's much easier to take with me if I need to. She fits into my regular messenger bag, my DD/DDS dolls don't even come close to fitting.

I haven't had any elbow issues, I just checked them actually and they're healthy !(•̀ᴗ•́)و ̑̑

45 minutes ago, foo said:

TBH I never had to do that before but it's pretty easy with the f3. All the body parts are designed to just pull apart and plug together, and they connect snugly. Like the hips on the old bodies, the legs often liked to migrate outwards as you used the doll over time making you squish them back into the body. Same thing with the arms.

Actually this is worth pointing out; on the f3 the part of the arm/shoulder that does the rotation is separate from the peg that you plug into the body. 

You can see the peg for the arm goes into a socket, but that socket is attached to a ball. It's the ball that rotates when you move the arm. On the old bodies there were no moving parts like that, if you rotated the arm, the shoulder peg would rotate inside the shoulder socket. So as you kept moving the arms or legs, they would gradually come apart over time until you squished them back into the body.

Honestly don't worry about it. Like I said stuff is easy to take apart, as long as you don't have to deal with the hip joints (~_~#) If you do have to deal with those, buying in parts won't help you because that part comes assembled.

I love it ٩(ˊᗜˋ*)و It's such a great size and poses so nicely. It is smaller than the DD/DDS frames, so poseability is more limited because vinyl bumps into itself like with MDDs (it's nowhere near as bad as MDD of course). Honestly the size is a lot more playful, and she's much easier to take with me if I need to. She fits into my regular messenger bag, my DD/DDS dolls don't even come close to fitting.

I haven't had any elbow issues, I just checked them actually and they're healthy !(•̀ᴗ•́)و ̑̑

Man, you're a godsend. Thank you very much for taking the time to address all of my questions, and for noting the difference about the arm socket on the F3. I was always having to push in the shoulders on my Liliru when I played with her or dressed her, so it's nice to see that I won't need to do that on the F3 MDD. I definitely see a either a DDH06 or 10 on a MDDF3 in my future.

Now just one more question for you: I want to ease the difficulty of changing hands by buying a bunch of wrist parts and attaching hands, then leaving them that way for faster swapping, so I can pull the whole wrist out instead of just fighting with the hand part. Have you tried this? Would it be doable?

Thank you very much.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Selenae

2 hours ago, Selenae said:

I'm wondering if I might be better off piecing a body together, that way I can tighten parts as I go along instead of worrying about needing to tighten a full body right out the box.

This would likely increase the chances you'd have to make the adjustments, since an assembled body should have had the parts tightened as a set, while size variations due to manufacturing tolerances could mean you'd end up with joints that are too loose or too tight by assembling it yourself. You also pay a bit more.

Also, at least on DD3 (I don't have an f3), the thighs are pretty difficult to put on, especially the very first time, and I could see this being difficult for you.

2 hours ago, Selenae said:

I suppose my thinking that the F3 release was rushed comes from the idea that more screws = less stability.

No, it was done to make the joints adjustable to account for manufacturing tolerances and wear. With DD3, in most cases if something is too tight or loose you're stuck with it being that way without actual modifications like sanding parts down.

In case you haven't already looked at this, here is Volks' page on where all the screws are and how to adjust: https://www.dollfiedream.tokyo/dd_en/support/howto_ddf3_ddp/

33 minutes ago, Selenae said:

I want to ease the difficulty of changing hands by buying a bunch of wrist parts and attaching hands, then leaving them that way for faster swapping, so I can pull the whole wrist out instead of just fighting with the hand part.

That's how I do it.

5 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

The only part I've found needs tightening right off is the ankles, but if there is a screw for that I have yet to find it.

If you remove the vinyl from the foot, there's a screw for the ankle tension, though I don't know if that's what you need. I imagine you need to heat the foot with a hair dryer in order to remove it. It's shown on that Volks page above.

Edited August 4, 2019 by cfx

44 minutes ago, Selenae said:

Now just one more question for you: I want to ease the difficulty of changing hands by buying a bunch of wrist parts and attaching hands, then leaving them that way for faster swapping, so I can pull the whole wrist out instead of just fighting with the hand part. Have you tried this? Would it be doable?

Yup, I do that too, it's so much easier. It's not an option with the DDP though because there are no option hands yet （ーー；） 

51 minutes ago, cfx said:

This would likely increase the chances you'd have to make the adjustments, since an assembled body should have had the parts tightened as a set, while size variations due to manufacturing tolerances could mean you'd end up with joints that are too loose or too tight by assembling it yourself. You also pay a bit more.

Also, at least on DD3 (I don't have an f3), the thighs are pretty difficult to put on, especially the very first time, and I could see this being difficult for you.

No, it was done to make the joints adjustable to account for manufacturing tolerances and wear. With DD3, in most cases if something is too tight or loose you're stuck with it being that way without actual modifications like sanding parts down.

In case you haven't already looked at this, here is Volks' page on where all the screws are and how to adjust: https://www.dollfiedream.tokyo/dd_en/support/howto_ddf3_ddp/

That's how I do it.

 

Ah, actually, the very first thing I did when Volks announced the DDP body was look at that page, and instantly went 'Oh, heck no. I'm not touching this.' upon seeing all the screws. My mistake was assuming the body would be a floppy mess, even right out of the box. Now that I've done more research, I'm much less hesitant. Also, yeah, I figured varying tension would be the case for separate parts, I'm just praying the full body I get won't have unfixable issues like my non-F3 Liliru does. Glad to hear that the wrist swapping works, I'll likely go ahead and order a few sets once Volks USA gets them back in stock.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2019 by Selenae

On 8/3/2019 at 9:11 PM, cfx said:

If you remove the vinyl from the foot, there's a screw for the ankle tension, though I don't know if that's what you need. I imagine you need to heat the foot with a hair dryer in order to remove it. It's shown on that Volks page above.

It looks like that was the screw I needed, and it did take a hair dryer. Much easier than swapping the vinyl parts of the feet on a DDII though.

It didn't tighten as much as I would have liked, but Uzuki no longer wants to flop over when I pose her without a stand so problem solved.

Now to take care of Shiburin.

On 8/3/2019 at 3:46 PM, Selenae said:

Anyways, I've fallen hard for the DDP body, but I /really/ do not like the idea of having to go in and tighten all these screws myself, since I'm disabled and lack the hand strength to do so.

I would say getting the feet off took a fair bit of hand strength, and if I hadn't been able to do it the dolls in question would have issues standing upright on their own. Mostly an issue if you want to photo them without stands, but it's a consideration. My Sailor Mercury & Sailor Mars don't have this floppy feet issue, so maybe the newer F3's had this corrected.

Edited August 11, 2019 by BeyondTime

4 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

Much easier than swapping the vinyl parts of the feet on a DDII though.

That might be another reason Volks changed the foot design where it doesn't cover much of the ball anymore.

While the extra flexibility can be nice, I still feel this change made the ankles less attractive.

10 minutes ago, cfx said:

That might be another reason Volks changed the foot design where it doesn't cover much of the ball anymore.

While the extra flexibility can be nice, I still feel this change made the ankles less attractive.

For photos it's easy to photoshop the slot, but for display it is just out there.

I also took Rin's legs apart to tighten the knees, because they were pretty floppy too. I would say this is another area of the F3 where you would need some hand strength to deal with the parts. The part that goes into the thigh is larger than it is on the old DDIII, and it has a bump where the screw is. It was easier to disable the knee than the feet, but getting it back in involved aligning the thigh frame with the calf frame and that took some effort both holding the frame in place and squeezing the vinyl.

I also had to pull the thighs off the hip, and that part is challenging on the F3. I'd done it before, but this is the first time I had done it after disassembling the legs, and it was harder to get it all back into position correctly. I ended up taking the torso off, so I could freely align the hip frame. All of these bits may be challenging if you don't have a lot of strength in your hands.

There may be a trade-off here because it's not like disassembling the DDIII is easy, but you have less reason to do so if there is no adjustment to make. The other side of that is you might end up replacing parts that wear out over time and cannot be adjusted on the DDIII, and as time passes you won't be able to get new parts for DDIII. 

I wonder how long DDIII parts will be available. Some aren't orderable now but say they'll be restocked, though Volks websites say that for some other things that aren't likely to ever be restocked too. The most ominous bit is how Volks removed all DDIII parts from all of their stores except Dollpoint, at about the same time DD-f3 was made available--I don't remember the exact date, but this was explained either in Volks News or the Dreamy DD blog...I think it was the blog, it showed a picture of a unitorso but it wasn't just about those. I used to think that the fact some DDII parts are still available now was a good sign, but that's really no indication it will be the same way this time.

Logically, we'd expect replacement parts for dolls to be available a while, but as there were never replacement parts at all for licensed dolls that didn't have standard parts i.e. Kanu or Yoko, there's no requirement for Volks to keep them available.

I start to wonder if I should get replacement parts, but then there's no real way of knowing what might break or get untreatably stained and it's too expensive to have spares for everything.

Hi! I've been reading this thread and finally got a DDS-f3 body! ^_^

I've done a little comparison post about DDS-F3 vs DDSIII so here you have, hope it's useful!

 

https://orchiddolls.com/body-comparison-dds-f-3-vs-dds-iii

 

Basically, my body has loose ankles but the rest is just fine. Also, I'm not in love with the back of the knees of the f3... Anyone feeling the same? 

The loose ankles should be adjustable with a screw, but you have to pull the vinyl part of the foot off. 

@Orchid This comparison is exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you!

15 hours ago, Orchid said:

Also, I'm not in love with the back of the knees of the f3... Anyone feeling the same?

I agree; it looks like they went back to the DDII design for some reason.

On 8/18/2019 at 3:38 PM, BeyondTime said:

The loose ankles should be adjustable with a screw, but you have to pull the vinyl part of the foot off. 

Yeah I have to try this when I have a moment! ^^

 

On 8/19/2019 at 12:31 AM, rainglow said:

@Orchid This comparison is exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you!

You're welcome! I'm happy to be helpful 😄

 

On 8/19/2019 at 1:48 AM, cfx said:

I agree; it looks like they went back to the DDII design for some reason.

Yep I noticed it comparing them with my Yuuko's knees (DDII Beato), they're exactly the same º-º

On 8/18/2019 at 1:37 AM, Orchid said:

I've done a little comparison post about DDS-F3 vs DDSIII so here you have, hope it's useful!

Such a wonderful comparison I love your photos too & how you use pink and blue to for each one.

On 8/22/2019 at 2:51 AM, foo said:

Such a wonderful comparison I love your photos too & how you use pink and blue to for each one.

Thank you very much! I'm glad you liked it! >u<

Thank you so much @Orchid for posting this link. I'm new to the whole Dollfie Dream scene and to be honest all the Roman numerals and abbrevations had me totally puzzled. Not to mention all the different versions of bodies and heads. This one really showed me plain and simple what the differences were on the older bodies which makes me appreciate the new one even more. I love the swivel possibility on the torso/hip. It helped me make up my mind to save a little longer for the F3 version of the body.

Is the ddp f3 feet the same as the MDD f3 feet?

6 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Is the ddp f3 feet the same as the MDD f3 feet?

No, they're different parts.