This went well... (new blue meets old blue)

junior000

 

Shrimp

Gorilla-Woman

Washboard

Granny!

....

Junior~

! -- MUuu!

Dont call me "Junior"!

Ju-Ni-ooooor~~

Big sis you idiot!

 

Now that we've gotten the initial introduction over what this post is going to be about, lets get to it.

 

this is going to be a slightly long winded thing I guess, since I thought Id go about why's and how's about both dolls, but there are still pictures to ogle if the text isn't your thing.

 

as a side note, Yes I am using bases this time, because I am way too out of practice for non supported posing, and these two are quite unwieldy to even try to pose without stands.

 

junior001

 

So about 10½ years ago I managed to get my original blue Saber.

 

At first I thought that she would be unobtanium since during the original post Dollpa release, the auction prices for her were pretty absurd... I think the highest I saw was 400k yen for the most impatient ones.

Luckily the initial hype died down a little and later on during the After-event release the prices were quite a bit more reasonable, and mine was a buy it now deal at a modest premium.

 

This might rub some people the wrong way but, first of all I am not a huge Type-Moon fan, it was only around Fate/Zero were I sort of found actual substance to the overall concept, but that, as an anime was still some time away from this doll's release.

 

saber193

 

So even at that price point Saber was not cheap, so why get her as my second doll?

 

saber194

 

I just adored the gender-bender idea of a female King Arthur. the concept just went click in my head, and apparently quite a few other people's heads, and as a result Type-moon has been chasing its tail to try and recapture this lighting into a bottle again -- hence the saber-face thing.

 

Also as with Feena, Saber looked like a solid piece of craftsmanship, which I wanted just for that. she is imposing, and regal standing in my shelf.

 

From here on I've managed to gather three other Sabers. Two Alter mk2's, and one Nero. -- If you are curious, I actually had the means to go after Lily when she was being released, but... she never went click for me ... apart from her lingerie which is spectacular in her set, otherwise I wasn't infatuated with her as most seem to be.

 

So, fast forward almost ten years, and we got to the Grand-Order pre-order, so why a fifth Saber and not a Jean ?

 

junior002

 

First of all Milla Jovovich, and Luc Besson managed to take most of my interest out of the Maid of Orleans concept quite nicely, and also I find the Grand order gacha concept a bit ... erosive to the whole original Fate idea.

 

I also took minor offense at the whole Ruler-class, which seemed like a half baked effort to out-saber saber. And returning to the whole trying to re-catch that lighting in the bottle, rebooting Saber as a Lancer-class.

 

and thus we get to my favorite gripe of this convolution... Sabers true name.

 

junior003

 

Originally in the Fate Stay night anime you hear Ayako Kawasumi introduce her character as Arttuuria Pendragon -- which works ... then later in Zero its Arttooria ... and now its Altria? -- just so they could now throw Arttuuria for Lancer-saber -- *sigh* -- really?

 

But.. its not like I've named my other sabers by their true names, and while my original saber goes by Arttuuria, I have Elizabeth, Mary, and Albert ... New girl might be named Diana, but Im not sure yet.. so its Junior for now.

 

But quickly back to the choice that was, apart from the charming deep purple color scheme, Jean's design just doesn't have appeal for me. But if there ever is a Jean Alter DD, they will have my money for that.

 

So now that I have an old Saber, and new Saber ... how do they compare?

Was there a similar wow-factor when un-boxing Saber ten years ago? -- ummmm.. no.

 

junior004

 

Old blue is a tough act to follow, and even though she's been on display for most of the ten years I've had her, she still is.

 

The more I went through this photo set the more I started to dislike things about the new design.

 

There are cool-ish features build into the new armor, like the armadillo sideplates that actually move about, where the original's are solid. and the front most flaps on the arm-covers also move about. But the way they are put together will make any Kos-Mos owner cringe on sight... and just so you know, one of my side-armors hinges was already cracked.

 

I also take a bit annoyance at the finish of the pieces...

 

junior005

 

The biggest annoyance is the new Excalibur in my case having paint issues. There's a noticeable spray edge beneath the rune's. and also the metallic blue could have used a bit more attention in the church-window section.

 

But the biggest issue is... I have a prop, which in all brutal honesty -- I cant use.

 

Despite having that hideous split line in the handle, for the life of me, I cannot get this sword onto the gripping armor hands of the new Saber... and there is no reason for this, which I'll get to later.

 

junior006

 

Comparing the two sets of armors is a bit ... weird.

 

There is ten years difference in these two, and while there are some technical tricks in the new set, which I've already mentioned... I just don't like the look of the new armor in person.

 

The old armor is made out of Vinyl, which makes it heavy and unwieldy to pose with, but at the same time, its basicly indestructible, and the faux patina given to it, while tacky in places overall it looks the part from start to finish.

 

The new armor seems plasticky to look at, due to the shiny matte finish of it -- but well... since it is New Saber and not Old Saber, so the whole Pika-Pika thing might be justified in a sense...

 

junior007

 

junior008

 

And then we get to the extra bits, which were not part of the original design, but more or less again relate to the gatcha-thingy ... giving new saber her super-duper-form...

 

junior009

 

The mantle is ok .. and by the looks of it, is also now available in white for general purchase. Although while cool in some shots, it makes for added difficulty to get it to sit without it seeming choking the poor girl in the process.

 

junior010

 

The crown is ... canon, I know -- it dating back to the Type moon tenth anniversary White-Saber illustrations ... but unfortunately it suffers from the same plastic syndrome as the rest of the armor with its matte finish... and quite frankly with Saber in a mantle .. I always think back to an illustration where Saber is wearing the Royal Queens crown of England for that added royal effect.

 

I think it was sleepywolf who was trying to make that style of crown happen in reality ... I have my own ideas for that, but shall see if I ever get around to it.

 

But back to why I am a bit annoyed at these all new designs...

 

junior011

 

The above, and following few pictures are of New Saber with Old Sabers armor, doing a pose you cannot do with the new saber items...

 

junior012

 

And all because you cant get the new gripping armor hands around the dern sword handle.

 

junior013

 

The more I think about this, the more I get annoyed .. since it already worked ten years ago, why make something that's not going to work.

 

junior014

 

There are some other peculiarities with the new armor, mainly the use of magnets in keeping it together. On the top armor piece I have no issues, since it does work, and you don't have to worry about pegs breaking as with the original armor.

 

The arm-guards are the same one piece idea, but they've split the shin pieces into two, and added magnets there to keep them together... ultimately adding cost to a place where there didn't need to be added cost -- ultimately ending with volks cheaping out on something else, that I will get to later...

 

 

As a humoristic side note, when I took the next photo I couldn't help but start to giggle.

 

junior015

 

One of the technical problems with old saber was that the DD S-bust was not invented yet, since the character was quite petit, and also short. The new release corrects this, but somehow the DDS S-bust seems almost ... too flat.

 

junior016

 

The new battle-gown is more true to Takashi Takeuchi's design for the lacing at the front, while the old design is more in line with Megumi Ishihara's who did character art for the FS/N anime.

Out of the two I actually prefer the older one, since the new one is a bit unwieldy to get straight, despite a good ten minutes trying to get it to sit properly.

 

junior017

 

The new dress, like the included mantle has also the annoying feature of having a wire put into the hem, which in theory give the possibility for more dynamic posing with the clothing, but its a right pain in the butt to get straight for normal positionals like these.

 

junior018

 

The new gown has more rounded shoulder-pads than the old one, which leads to a bit of a peculiar situation since as far as comparing to Takeuchi's art, the angular pads are still there in what most recent art I could find from him. I do like the continious arc with the embroidery on the new gown's pads though.

 

junior019

 

So finally with our peeling away, we get to the final layer, which is the inner gown... as a side note I did think of using another body for Old Saber at this point, since this her original body I use to display this dress, and as you have guessed it is quite the stain monster, along with the maid outfit (No matter what people say, given the proper climate, it stains like you wouldn't believe).

 

junior020

 

But I decided to go with the original body ... I thought it proper since she is a old girl, so she should be able to show her issues...

 

While on the subject of body parts, The new faceup is quite a bit more girlish in nature, I think they could have eased up on the blush for this, but it is still overall true to the original faceup, with more added layers to its execution.

 

The new eyes are a lot more bright, with the trend now being that, instead of the old style Hob-goblin eyes of Old Saber that require a specific type of light to really shine while doing indoor photography.

 

junior021

 

The new Inner gown has actually more attention to detail than the old one which always seemed like a bit of an after thought. and the New one could almost be used as a separate summer dress type thing. Although again I am left wondering why did they add the clear rubber shoulder straps to it, since the original never really needed it, and this new one is form fitting enough that it shouldn't have need them either. So again more money spent which was then saved from somewhere else...

 

junior022

 

And with that you probably have guessed by now what my biggest gripe with the New Saber has been so far, and for only reasons I can deduct to being that Volks cheaped out ... and its the wig.

 

They've done this wig five times now, and this is the third one with the ahoge... and here they failed spectacularly. The original Saber, and Nero wigs apparently have a separate waft of hair sewn into the wig-cap for the ahoge, but this latest effort takes a strand of the wig itself, leaving it a limp, flat dangling mess with a very ugly wig-cap shining from its base, so it had to be eradicated post-haste.

 

 

junior023

 

Unfortunately the right side bangs are also a bit flat, and wonky, but they might be able to get sorted out as time passes ...

 

junior024

 

So yes... my fifth saber did not come without some issues or dislikes ...

 

Anyways.. thanks for looking...

Edited December 22, 2018 by Guest

Haha love it~

Love it.

 

Now you'll have to do a post and compare the two in detail.

Thanks...

 

Once I get my santa's workshop thing cleared out in my house I might have time to do a comparison update to the first post... since there is actually quite a lot to compare, and not all of it good.

 

but first the more immediate things out of the way...

Ha! made my day when I read this

Thanks...

 

and the first post updated with comparison pictures for those still interested...

Thanks for all that.

 

While reading through the post I was thinking how much worse the new wig looks even before getting to you talking about it. It looks worse in profile too as can be seen in your comic. Wigs with the hair pulled back always have the issue of how the edge of the wig cap looks, but it's worse on the new one with the side hair not even appearning to cover any of it.

 

I think the new wig looks too small for her head; it's not as poofy as the old one.

Wow! This was an excellent comparison thread! I love it!

 

Thanks so much for going into all the details on the differences between the new and old versions. I always wanted the original Blue Saber but could never afford one. So when the new pre-order came out, I had to get her. I really like mine but I see where your concerns are between the two. I agree on several points but the most obvious one was the chest. I think the S bust is too small for her and think they should have left her as an M. But not many people agree on that and since I want mine to wear her default set often, I have to leave her as a small bust girl.

 

 

Anyways, thanks again for the amazing photos and info!

 

 

 

Billy

Thanks..

 

@ cfx

 

ummm, to be fair, the angles in these photos manage to flatter the original wig quite a bit. The new one in terms of the back part isnt any worse than the old one, actually upon harder scrutiny the danish bun on the old wig is actually off center a bit, and when I got it, it needed a bit of wrangling in terms of stray hairs that should have been underneath the bun.

 

The new wig was much better in terms of the rear cap and didn't need that much fiddling to be presentable, only the non-existing ahoge, and the right (the dolls right) side bang are things that manage to annoy me, since they are key parts of the character its supposed to portray.

 

Ultimately this style of wig is a compromise, its the same with the others I have with this type. Beatrice, the Miku's, Alter, Nero, Yoko, and Sakura. there's just no other real way of going about it that wont look weirder, or worse. Its mostly a matter on how the front edge shows up in photos I guess...

 

 

@ baldylox

 

I might come off a bit harsh on the new girl, but there were reasons. Since its going to be one of the last dolls I might get, I would have preferred it to be perfect... also that she was #40 held some importance too in terms of performance.

 

The biggest real issue is the hands, and I find it very unpleasing that at least with mine, I was taking small chunks out of the vinyl from the hands trying to wrestle the handle through them. temperature could be an issue since its heating season over here, but I still think they overdid the tightness of the fit.

 

But I still think people did get a good chance with the set. As I mentioned in the release thread, yes this set was more expensive than the original, but all things considered, inflation, the F3-body (A dubious upgrade compared to a DD3 in my opinion, but...), the mantle, crown, and the extra pair of hands, it comes to just that little bit more for your yen than the original had.

 

Its also brand new, in box, and compared to the alternative.. buying a sun-burned second hand original saber from mandarake for about the same money as this new set, it is the better option. (I find it interesting that with mine, its been the opposite than the manda sabers, with mine, the face is intact but the wig has stained the head from where its been for the past years.)

 

But I think people need to be a bit more careful with this new one. After Kos-Mos I really am not confident that the pieces will hold together that well if people start to play and pose with it more aggressively.

 

Overall new girl is a bit more Bell Cranell compared to the old one's Goblin Slayer in terms of stoic presence, but she'll make a nice sentry for my living room non the less, while the old girl finally gets to go on a spree of china dresses, lingerie and other forms of debauchery... (as I had imagined in the original new girl ordering comic I never did make...)

Actually there's a trick to getting the new sword handle into the new gripping hand. One of the fingers on the new gripping hand comes off. (I forget if it is index or middle.) Once removed the handle bottom slides into place and you can then put the finger back and attach the top half of the handle.

There are seams for the middle finger to the pinky on the right hand, but mine seem to be glued together, at least they are not coming apart even with some persuasion.

 

the index and thumb dont seem to have seams, and thats where in my case the handle when split is digging into the vinyl with cutting results.

Sorry. I guess I just got lucky then and it wasn't glued well. (Or it was a running change - I intentionally ordered last day from USA to get last batch and for example had no issues with needing to sand any pegs.)

 

It's the only way the handle goes in though. I figured it would be like Lily where the painted handle just gets scratched wedging it into the hand so I didn't want to push real hard. Noticed that one finger came off and went back easily and removing it makes the handle slide in easily far enough that the top piece can be inserted from the other side with a little effort.

This post is everything I ever wanted! Congratulations and thanks for this amazing post

@nehelenia

thank you very many.

 

@ scripple

mmm, no problemo.. someone else might find that tip useful, so its all good to share. unfortunately my problem is just elsewhere on the hand, but I can still get her into one of the canonical sentry poses with the sword, or just use the older bits in a pinch so its not a total disaster.

Originally in the Fate Stay night anime you hear Ayako Kawasumi introduce her character as Arttuuria Pendragon -- which works ... then later in Zero its Arttooria ... and now its Altria? -- just so they could now throw Arttuuria for Lancer-saber -- *sigh* -- really?

 

I feel the need to comment on this, mostly because I'm also super triggered by the name "Altria." Saber's true name has always been the same in terms of katakana - "アルトリア" or "Arutoria". However, there are lots of different ways that could be romanized. Traditionally, the English-speaking fandom translated this as "Artoria" or "Arturia," with the former gaining slightly more prominence because of its similarity to "Artorius," the name of a Roman general who was one of the historical inspirations for King Arthur. The name "Altria" technically dates back to an old material book, but it had a number of terrible romanizations, including spelling one character's title as "Load" instead of "Lord."

 

Unfortunately, with the release of FGO's NA server, which is heavily controlled by the Japanese parent company, they decided that the official English spelling of Saber's name should be "Altria." I honestly feel this is a result of poor English skills; "Altria" and "Artoria" are basically pronounced the same way in Japanese, but very differently in English. Also, "Altria" is a terribly confusing name when you also have "Alter" versions of characters, as well as a completely separate character named "Altera." But it is officially used for ALL versions of Saber, so her Lancer version is "Altria Pendragon" as well.

 

Anyways... your dolls are gorgeous, and sorry for text-walling at you.

@Tira

 

Thanky you very many, and no biggie about the text wall, which to be honest is still in hedge category for what Im occasionally used to. I shall reply with commencing with a bigger wall of text...

 

The romanization option is a thing which I knew of. Another franchise that has some similar issues is Ar Tonelico, for instance Cloche, vs. Chrosche in Ar2. So its not like stuff like this hasn't happened elewhere.

 

Arutoria, Alutoria, Alutolia or Arutolia, the syllable per syllable katakana translation leaves options in terms of how you want to go about Ri/Li or Ru/Lu (also Ro/Lo and Ra/La Re/Le and whatever Im forgetting)... which also applies in how people want to actually say it, since the katakana ル or リ do not firmly denote which way you should go, instead of for instance Do/To, were you have the " in the katakana triggering the softer consonant.

 

So technically anybody in japan could choose any of the four aforementioned options and they'd be in a awkward way correct. This has lead to some hilarious anime seiyuu moments with engrish... Divergence Eve has an example where half the cast say's Rampart, a quarter Lampaluto, and the remainder variations between the two.

 

as I mentioned, i've just latched onto Artturia since it was how I first heard it through Kawasumi originally (props for her on the pronunciation in any case), and it fit the image in my mind of a feminized Arthur name without any further investigation into the matter (Im not that big of a TM fan, as I mentioned). Arthuria/Artoria/Arutoria is still ok in my books.

 

But outright Altria is just bad form, especially with the alter variants as you mentioned ... also in local meaning its one letter away from being the analogy of Oscar-Meyer for the american audience.

 

As for Lancer-Sabers name ... I have to concede her official name apparently is also Altria ... though I could have sworn at some point it was Arutoria on places like amiami (but this could have been before TM clamped down on how its supposed to be) ... and while I recall going through wikipedia about it while doing my research for the initial text (Not that, that's the best place for info to be taken as gospel to begin with, but...), I cant find the lancer-saber connection under Saber anymore which I remember basing my initial text on -- at which point I think it was Altria for Saber-Saber and Arutoria for Lancer-Saber -- then again its been edited 30 or so times after I made my post.

 

To my defence at least my image board of choice has Lancer-Saber still as Arutoria, but ultimately that's what I get for relying on such things.