The Facebook debacle & other issues

@BeyondTime Not from what I've seen, at least, not on Instagram. Dunno about his other media accounts.

This is so upsetting. I don't have any disabilities myself, but many of my friends and people I know from the community do, and I can't believe any person or any brand would do or say that. 

Does anyone have a link and/or screenshot of Danny's post? There are people who still don't believe me or think I'm exaggerating when I say I don't like the dolls anymore because of what he does. Maybe this will help open some eyes...

Nevermind, I found it. Sorry for the double post, it's too late to edit.

Smart Doll Eiji Cinnamon

 

7 hours ago, Selenae said:

 I honestly don't know how I'm not supposed to criticize Danny directly at this point.

It is frustrating how he can attack people without much consequence, and we are forced to play nice.
I am not saying that I approve of attacking people or spreading hate, but I understand the feelings and frustrations.
 

4 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

I’ve heard of his posts being deleted after outcries, but has an apology even been given publicly for any of the things he put in those posts?

The closest thing to an apology was when he posted a sort of idea of a non-binary doll (..?) He used he-she-"sglee" - something like that, offensive word, was the outcry at least.
And the only thing he said was "oh, I didn't know". That has been the closest to acknowledging any wrongdoing. IF my memory is correct.
I'll see if I can find it.
 

2 hours ago, Yumeiro said:

It is frustrating how he can attack people without much consequence, and we are forced to play nice.
I am not saying that I approve of attacking people or spreading hate, but I understand the feelings and frustrations.
 

The closest thing to an apology was when he posted a sort of idea of a non-binary doll (..?) He used he-she-"sglee" - something like that, offensive word, was the outcry at least.
And the only thing he said was "oh, I didn't know". That has been the closest to acknowledging any wrongdoing. IF my memory is correct.
I'll see if I can find it.
 

It was ‘she, him, shim?’ which is a pretty offensive word although I can understand that it’s a lesser known one. In that instance he definitely did not seem to be acting knowingly maliciously. He did technically apologise...but it felt a little hollow because he turned it into a weird post about how you can get a ‘public beating’ for not knowing about certain etiquette, using the correct way to give a business card in Japan as an example. Left a bad taste in my mouth because of the implication that people (politely!) explaining why he shouldn’t have used a certain word was a ‘public beating’.... and to make matters worse, a bunch of people just had to leave replies to the effect of ‘ugh people are offended by EVERYTHING these days!!!’ which he was liking and replying ‘lol’ to, so the whole thing felt more about saving face than actually being sorry.

And, it also felt different because it hadn’t been intentional.Most of the other questionable things he has done have been completely intentional, so he wouldn’t feel a need to apologise for them.
 

Even back when he made that one extremely tonedeaf BLM post (the gist of it was that he was making out that smartdolls and smartdoll fans were an oppressed minority themselves, discriminated against by other doll fans), that was actually so tonedeaf he could recognise it as such and so deleted it...there was no apology or acknowledgment. He only deleted it and replaced it with a much nicer post, (an image of the different coloured smartdolls all holding each others arms and supporting one another, with a message of tolerance and acceptance, that no reasonable person would take issue with)...and then tried to pretend he was getting backlash for THAT post instead of the one he swept under the carpet - that way he could  pretend the outrage was due to him taking a stand against racism and -not- people being rightfully offended that he would compare people not liking a doll company’s controversial business practices to racism, with the worst possible timing.

11 hours ago, Selenae said:

@BeyondTime Not from what I've seen, at least, not on Instagram. Dunno about his other media accounts.

 

4 hours ago, Monty said:

He did technically apologise...but it felt a little hollow because he turned it into a weird post about how you can get a ‘public beating’ for not knowing about certain etiquette, using the correct way to give a business card in Japan as an example.

 

4 hours ago, Monty said:

and then tried to pretend he was getting backlash for THAT post instead of the one he swept under the carpet - that way he could  pretend the outrage was due to him taking a stand against racism and -not- people being rightfully offended that he would compare people not liking a doll company’s controversial business practices to racism, with the worst possible timing.

Ok, so this sounds like the classic unpology with a healthy dollop of deferral of blame thrown in.

Basically: I'm sorry, but...

With the "but" used to shift attention away from his own error and onto others.

To really apologize you have to take blame upon yourself, accept that what you did caused harm, and genuinely express remorse for your actions. 

 

7 hours ago, LuluChan said:

Nevermind, I found it. Sorry for the double post, it's too late to edit.

The "All great reasons not to buy this product" part sounds like his standard boilerplate "think twice before buying a SmartDoll, not everyone likes our products / company." He says that a lot, so I wouldn't necessarily read that as a ban of any sort.

I'm sure I remember the arm thing being a general point in one of the faqs before I bought a Smart Doll, because I remember it giving me pause. Like a lot of people I have RSI in my wrists (thanks, computers) and because of that never regained my pre-RSI strength. I can't find the old post though. It's probably been edited out of existence. 😥 

I think Smart Doll Land has always been the kings/queens of non-apology and deflection. I can't remember a single genuine "oops, sorry", and certainly not one that didn't go into ramblings.

Every time something is posted I feel takes a condescending "mother knows best" tone. It's this absolute cultivation of the fan base and ,frankly, the actions taken makes equating it to cult grooming easy. I suppose that's why the joke has been around so long!

I had started to write out a Smart-Doll specific list....but man just dump "cult behaviour" into google and tell me it doesn't become Smart Doll. I cut the list down/edited it and added express examples in some places

• The group is focused on a living leader to whom members seem to display excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment.
• The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.(No attention or support is really given to current owners)
• The group is preoccupied with making money.(Well, it's a business can't fault him there. Though I suppose you could argue about the "Garage" section.)
• Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
• Mind-numbing techniques (such as chanting,denunciation sessions) are used to suppress doubts about the group and its leader. (Something not mentioned here is also the creation of short hand/buzz words."Mantras" if you will. Haters gonna hate, Don't give a Sheep and short hand for concepts are created. Example: "non-members"(The entitled))
• The leadership dictates sometimes in great detail how members should think, act, and feel
• The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and members
• The group has a polarized us- versus-them mentality, which causes conflict with the wider society.
• The group's leader is not accountable to any authorities (The only authorities we could really apply here are 1) Toy Regulation Agencies and 2) Customers)
• The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify means that members would have considered unethical before joining the group
• The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.
• Members' subservience to the group causes them to cut ties with family and friends, and to give up personal goals and activities that were of interest before joining the group.( I'd argue your just not allowed to like other dolls because OtHeR CoMpAnIeS aRe MeAn and NoT LiKe Us!!!)
• Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.
• Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

Next thing you know he'll have them handing out pamphlets.

And it makes me upset! At least getting a doll secondhand eases the pressure, but frankly it's like reading an L Ron Hubbard book and not thinking about Scientology.

 

1 hour ago, HazelMaze said:

 

• The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.

 

It's definitely true that fear is used to control people. And that can be worse/equal to guilt. I'm gonna psychoanalyse, and say that both get used effectively within abusive relationship dynamics ('look what you made me do', vs 'why did you do this to me')

The fun of having a "fawn" response in Smart Doll Land...

I'm certain this was pointed out already, but his trashy word salads are disturbing considering he is marketing towards young children.

@AzDoll123 Yes, I voiced my own deep discomfort with how he markets to children several pages back.

15 hours ago, HazelMaze said:

Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group.

This is definitely already happening. 

 

He actively rewards people who buy more stuff (people who post the most product photos, judged by number of different products get free stuff).

 

Also his stuff drops randomly, sells out in minutes and he now has a twitter account for people to sign up for alerts to.

 

It's not explicitly stated that you have to do any of this, but you need to if you want to get a popular item.  Heck I have read in groups that people pull all-nighters routinely on nights they suspect there will be a drop.

15 hours ago, HazelMaze said:

The leadership induces guilt feelings in members in order to control them.

Also this. My friend is brand new to smart doll and is afraid of saying ANYTHING remotely negative cus Danny has called for people to roast customers who complain. I've also seen people say that they feel guilty about questioning the quality of a product

 

It's unbelievable how the group fits into that cult list.

@AzDoll123 and @Selenae... At least the younger kids are less likely to see that stuff, being too young for instagram etc. It's the tweens and younger teens I'm more worried about, as one has to be conscientious when writing for/to them. 😨 

Although I most likely feel this way because I've had some baaaad experiences with YA literature, so it's a touchy subject for me. Needs a content warning bad.

2 hours ago, Katsudon said:

@AzDoll123 and @Selenae... At least the younger kids are less likely to see that stuff, being too young for instagram etc. It's the tweens and younger teens I'm more worried about, as one has to be conscientious when writing for/to them. 😨 

Although I most likely feel this way because I've had some baaaad experiences with YA literature, so it's a touchy subject for me. Needs a content warning bad.

Hehe, I guess anyone "young" is a child in my eyes. :P 

It can be a touchy subject for sure, and I'd say that parents can only do as much as they can when it comes to responsibility over what their kids see and how they react. Parents should also teach their kids about that responsibility, but again, there's only so much they can do (If there's a will, there's a way, I don't think an age barrier stops anyone). 

I just find it absurd that DC/CJ preaches "kid/family-friendly" vibes, showing pictures of young folk with Smart Dolls, etc. while he has all this problematic stuff out in the open.

Quote

14 hours ago, lucidium said:

This is definitely already happening. 

 

He actively rewards people who buy more stuff (people who post the most product photos, judged by number of different products get free stuff).

 

Also his stuff drops randomly, sells out in minutes and he now has a twitter account for people to sign up for alerts to.

 

It's not explicitly stated that you have to do any of this, but you need to if you want to get a popular item.  Heck I have read in groups that people pull all-nighters routinely on nights they suspect there will be a drop.

 

Asking to roast people is sure a fancy way to say "please cyberbully these people." In America there are several states where cyberbullying is actually against the law. In essence they are asking people to break the law..  over dolls? Just in case anyone was curious Cyberbullying laws by state in the US.

When, where and how will the line be drawn? After they have to legally add choking hazard labels to packaging, or they become banned in the US due to not following laws about toys vs collectables? Or even Facebook or Twitter removing or blocking accounts of people due to aforementioned cyberbullying?

It seems like public outcry over certain representation just doesn't seem to stop anything. Lack of identifying non-binary or other LGBT characters with the excuse of "I didn't know", isn't going to work as a stopgap forever. Tbh it takes 10 seconds to Google "terms for when someone isn't a boy or girl". In many cultures and groups they have gotten to the point of cultural exhaustion, having to explain themselves over and over. There are so many resources that can do the same thing without taxing your BIPOC and Queer friends. A better explanation of this phenomenon is here.

While on the topics of marginalized groups things, things such as stomas or artificial limbs for dolls, are awesome and inclusive. And yet, at the same not recognizing that many of the disabled who are basically being fetishised could not handle the dolls because of the very disabilities that have been so lovingly pointing out. Have you ever tried to assemble a doll with only one working hand? Or tried to even take your doll in public when you also have to use mobility aids? It's such a grey area of how to make it more inclusive and yet not changing things around because they work as is. But then they are not more accessible, which seems to defeat the purpose. 

In America there is the ADA; Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990.  (But I'm not sure if this would extend to dolls, collectibles or toys.) This law was only passed after people in wheelchairs physically blocked access for law makers to the capitol. Would something equivalent in doll terms be needed? What would something like that look like. Keeping in mind this is a private business we are discussing, and they have no responsibility to make things inclusive or accessible. And yet they seem to want to do so? 

I will acknowledge that my opinions are based on being a queer, disabled, and non-cis person in America and that things in Japan are most likely very different. But thanks to the internet the online culture has become somewhat homogeneous. In that it's no longer just white, straight, cis, and able-bodied people in online spaces. With a main market being America, and English speaking people, it seems there is a lot of both playing to your own market and trying to say it's my way or the highway, in regards to things like returns, people who are allowed to use the product and even quality control via wabi-sabi. 

I've been asked when has this happened and here is just one example. 

On 4/30/2021 at 3:46 AM, LuluChan said:

Nevermind, I found it. Sorry for the double post, it's too late to edit.

Smart Doll Eiji Cinnamon

 

And the counter thought of wouldn't you say the same about a resin doll though? But the owners of other doll companies aren't coming out and saying "don't buy this doll". In an effort to highlight other people and point out faults, folks have argued that they haven't gotten the same complaints and charge backs as Smart Dolls have. We honestly don't know that for sure one way or another because no other company has talked about it. At all.

If all this seems too daunting, breaking it down into smaller parts can be as simple as speaking with your wallet and choosing not to buy. Or on the flip side calling out people who openly hate, and stopping the cyberbullying in its tracks. Keeping in mind though that it should be done in a kind and respectful way. I can't really explain that you should care about other people if you are lacking empathy. But that doesn't mean we as a community shouldn't give up on trying to be better. 

At the end of the day, the more the cult like atmosphere with absolution of the main leader needs to stop and face ways to be held accountable. Holding someone accountable for their actions isn't just a fancy new political fad. Change starts with just one person speaking up, no matter what topic. We should be spreading love, not hate. We as a community should be pushing and striving towards accountability, accessability, and genuine acceptance of people of different races, genders, and abilities no matter who they are.  

 

TL:dr Call out and stop cyberbullying.  The doll community should be pushing towards accountability, accessability, & acceptance of people of different races, genders, and abilities.

Edited May 2, 2021 by AlmySidaKay

1 hour ago, AlmySidaKay said:

.

Totally agree with you. The ableism is ignorant because he has put a lot of effort into making prosthetics for the dolls. It just can't be explained by anything but a lack of researching and really bothering to understand others. That seems to be the general trend with DC.

 

2 hours ago, AlmySidaKay said:

And the counter thought of wouldn't you say the same about a resin doll though? But the owners of other doll companies aren't coming out and saying "don't buy this doll". In an effort to highlight other people and point out faults, folks have argued that they haven't gotten the same complaints and charge backs as Smart Dolls have. We honestly don't know that for sure one way or another because no other company has talked about it. At all.

The companies don't talk about it, but the customers do. Not charge backs per se, but complaints. It seems a lot less scary if there's something wrong with a resin doll, as I've so far not heard of a resin company having a tantrum over having to fix something. It'd be all over tumblr drama blogs if they did. The only bad stuff I've heard is if you buy from someone who isn't an official dealer, then the company won't offer replacement parts, which is fair enough really.

Every resin company I've dealt with has had good customer service, even fixing an issue which was my own fault for no charge! (I won't name the company, but they've since become one of my absolute favourites. I already bought two more of their dolls, and am saving up for another two.)

3 hours ago, AlmySidaKay said:

If all this seems too daunting, breaking it down into smaller parts can be as simple as speaking with your wallet and choosing not to buy. Or on the flip side calling out people who openly hate, and stopping the cyberbullying in its tracks. Keeping in mind though that it should be done in a kind and respectful way. I can't really explain that you should care about other people if you are lacking empathy. But that doesn't mean we as a community shouldn't give up on trying to be better. 

At the end of the day, the more the cult like atmosphere with absolution of the main leader needs to stop and face ways to be held accountable. Holding someone accountable for their actions isn't just a fancy new political fad. Change starts with just one person speaking up, no matter what topic. We should be spreading love, not hate. We as a community should be pushing and striving towards accountability, accessability, and genuine acceptance of people of different races, genders, and abilities no matter who they are.  

TL:dr Call out and stop cyberbullying.  The doll community should be pushing towards accountability, accessability, & acceptance of people of different races, genders, and abilities.

Agree with what you say. The Cult, however, keeps its ranks free of dissension by immediately deleting posts they deem negative towards the brand, as well as kicking out people who don't worship the ground the Shoe Child walks on. While other facebook groups that aren't exclusively for smartdolls may be places to speak out, it's easier said than done due to the fear of being discovered and banned from the store.

- It's also possible that SmD gets more complaints because they're also marketing to children/young teens and their parents who have no experience with BJDs and haven't felt the need to do any research beyond browsing the SmD site and related social media pages. Most BJD companies market to adult collectors and people already in the community; people willing to take the time to properly learn how to care for the dolls.

- Basically saying "I'll be inclusive, but only for things like skin color and prosthetics that I like the looks of."

(Although I guess the alternative would be to make an entirely new frame that's easier to manipulate for people? Actually that'd probably be better for kids too. But if he's not interested, it won't get made.)

 

I think we're yet to see the fallout from the push for kids to buy Smart Dolls tbh. I expect it to be spectacular!

2 hours ago, monkeypizzasonic said:

- It's also possible that SmD gets more complaints because they're also marketing to children/young teens and their parents who have no experience with BJDs and haven't felt the need to do any research beyond browsing the SmD site and related social media pages. Most BJD companies market to adult collectors and people already in the community; people willing to take the time to properly learn how to care for the dolls.

- Basically saying "I'll be inclusive, but only for things like skin color and prosthetics that I like the looks of."

(Although I guess the alternative would be to make an entirely new frame that's easier to manipulate for people? Actually that'd probably be better for kids too. But if he's not interested, it won't get made.)

 

It's such a weird and tricky slope when it comes to accessability too. I'm not saying I have all the answers or even any of them, but that's part of what talking about our shared experiences is about. Hopefully other people will help where I am unable to due to lack of knowledge or ability. 
 

As an aside, all this press about chargebacks, honestly it should be posted just like any other shitty transaction in groups or forums. But in my opinion it seems a lot like it stems from the not wanting to cause a fuss that is ever so popular in Eastern culture. 

50 minutes ago, Katsudon said:

I think we're yet to see the fallout from the push for kids to buy Smart Dolls tbh. I expect it to be spectacular!

It's been at least 6 months to a year now that the website has been like this. I doubt anything special will happen.

2 hours ago, bbotss said:

Agree with what you say. The Cult, however, keeps its ranks free of dissension by immediately deleting posts they deem negative towards the brand, as well as kicking out people who don't worship the ground the Shoe Child walks on. While other facebook groups that aren't exclusively for smartdolls may be places to speak out, it's easier said than done due to the fear of being discovered and banned from the store.

That's where having friends helps. Imo I'm not gonna hand hold a bunch of folks on the internet who think it's ok to behave poorly to other people in the doll hobby. 
 

And yet on the flip side, do I love my Smart Dolls? Absolutely. Will I buy more of them? Also yes. Will I be an objective adult who's trying to balance cancel culture with accountability? Also yes. And I know there will be times when people screw up, myself included. I just.... Want to bring the community up to a higher level of expectations because I value my peers. 

3 hours ago, monkeypizzasonic said:

- It's also possible that SmD gets more complaints because they're also marketing to children/young teens and their parents who have no experience with BJDs and haven't felt the need to do any research beyond browsing the SmD site and related social media pages. Most BJD companies market to adult collectors and people already in the community; people willing to take the time to properly learn how to care for the dolls.

This is purely speculation and anecdotal, but a possible reason as to why SmDs are so popular with Americans. If you compare SmDs with most major brand fashion dolls in the US, they're pretty identical in terms of have 1)Premade/Stock Characters with a back Story and 2) An exclusive line of apparel made "only" for them. Most people in the hobby I know were very into dolls as children and I wonder how many of these people simply see Smartdolls as just...large Barbies. I took my Dollfie Dream to work and one of my coworkers said it was insane to get such an expensive "Japanese Barbie". If you're marketing to a young teen and they randomly show their parent a Smartdoll, they're probably going to liken them to Barbies or American Girls (in terms of price point, not looks). Yes, these dolls are based off of anime, but even people super into anime have never heard of Dollfie Dreams or Smartdolls, so the only form of reference most Americans have are the more popular fashion doll brands. Despite having all this read tape on the website, there will be people who buy these dolls WITHOUT doing any kind of research on vinyl dolls at all. Danny tries, but there is simply no way to avoid stupid people and he's really hurting his brand by trying to do so. 

5 hours ago, MaKayla_Panda said:

Despite having all this read tape on the website, there will be people who buy these dolls WITHOUT doing any kind of research on vinyl dolls at all. Danny tries, but there is simply no way to avoid stupid people

It is so poorly designed on the website though. Even if he's got lots of text, he's not making it easy for people.
It is word-vomit! Important info. blended with cringey movie references and facts on human behavior would make anyone go "too long-didn't read". So I don't blame people in the slightest for not reading up properly on the product pages.

When you search for answers on the web, you do not want a whole essay on the human condition on why you are looking for knowledge or something like that, you want the basic matter-of-facts answer, THEN you can decide if you are satisfied with the answer you got, and if you want to scroll down and read more.
I think the Smartdoll product pages would benefit from having text in sections. One for pure facts of "included items", one for his non-mandatory-reading word-vomit-texts/"backstory", one for "FAQs" for shipping and quality, and one for read more/link-drops to his policies.

But all for the sake of being original, I guess...

re: the essay you have to read before you buy, I can only imagine how difficult it is to read when English isn’t your first language. (There’s the japanese version too, but it’s considerably more condensed with just a bunch of dot points, so I don’t know why the English can’t be like that?). It’s long and rambly enough but all the weird pop culture references and lame jokes are an unreasonably high demand to expect an ESL (or no English at all) person to decipher.

But if he’s going to laser-focus on American children(‘s parents), having any other languages or at the very least simple English that is easier to run through a translator unscathed is probably low priority to him. (Although, there are plenty of ESL/non English speaking parents in the US....)