The Facebook debacle & other issues

12 hours ago, Monty said:

(and once again ‘this is different in Japanese Culture!’ is a stupid excuse when you and most of your team aren’t Japanese *nor are you marketing to a Japanese audience by your own admission*.)

Yes! Thank you. Well said. That was my point. Just because Japan does something doesn't mean it's outside of criticism (nor does it mean someone within a certain marginalized group can't be a supporter of problematic systems.) Like I said I don't know the full history of the Japanese usage and associations of armbands but I'm just saying that fascism itself doesn't exist only within a certain era or country. Furthermore, this issues around that post has always been about the optics (uniform, armband and armband color, pose and the words DC wrote). I don't think it's the same as calling anyone you disagree with a Nazi, not in this particular case. And obviously just because DC isn't an actual card carrying Nazi doesn't mean his behavior or actions isn't troubling, regardless of his intent. Sometimes being permissive of certain things can be just as damning as being an active member. But I get it. It's always good to be cautious. That's why I try to focus on what I observe and looking for patterns. If anything I get an Elon Musk vibe from DC than anything else. 🙄

1 hour ago, RetroKanojo said:

There's no harm in politely and respectfully pointing out that certain things might be interpreted in certain ways by some people and that perhaps a compromise can be made that doesn't detract from the original 'artistic vision' while also not alienating or otherwise causing people inside the community to feel uncomfortable.

Unfortunately Danny is too far up his own ass to admit (most) wrongdoings or mistakes. It's everybody against HIM and HIS products, at all times.

And he seem to like it that way - a sob-story to turn people against other companies or collectors, who aren't as "pure and well-intentioned" as Culture Japan, and their business philosophy, rather than bring people together...

5 hours ago, RetroKanojo said:

No, of course no one in their right mind would seriously look at your Anna and Elsa and read it as fascist propaganda or something of the like! There's always outliers, of course, some people just have their minds made up and they end up seeing stuff that isn't actually there.

For me though, there was an inward cringe when I thought about the arm positioning. I wouldn't seriously expect people to freak out, but there were some negative feelings on my part when I thought about it. I've never really been one for putting my dolls in military uniforms, so I'm unlikely to run afoul of this to that extent. Dress my girls up in pretty dresses and sexy outfits? Sure, but not so much with cosplay. Danny's post-apocalyptic focus probably pushes him more towards sci-fi type clothes and is in itself a kind of anime / game influenced cosplay. You can push acceptable boundaries very quickly with that kind of fantasy though.

 

5 hours ago, RetroKanojo said:

Just, like.. compare this picture.

There is a Wikipedia article on the Nazi salute, and it does have photos. There was some variation, and apparently Hitler often handled his return salute by "phoning it in." Kind of tells you something about how he looked down at his followers imo. With the variation though, it does leave room for interpretation, but I'd lay odds most people, including Danny, know what they see in films and that matches what you posted. Personally, if I stepped in it like Danny did, my next step would be to learn about the subject in order to avoid doing so again. He may not have known, but he darn well better know better now.

 

5 hours ago, RetroKanojo said:

but even re-reading it now, I find it hard to stomach.

It's one thing to tell someone you think they've made a mistake or point out something they aren't aware of that explains why something isn't what they think it is, but another thing to tell them they aren't a real Jew and to deny the holocaust. Reasonable discussion vs personal attacks pretty much. Danny might have blocked them and not been aware, but if he was aware and allowed anti-semites to bully someone because everything is all about him, then that's disgusting. 
 

5 hours ago, RetroKanojo said:

Despite what we might like to believe there definitely are Anti-semitics and Neo/Nazis within the hobby (Just like there are TERFs and Anti-LGBTQ+).

I once suggested adding a personal pronoun field to the profile side bar, and there was an outpouring of hostility to the suggestion. To my way of thinking it was a way of being inclusive and of preventing misunderstandings. I mean, people get banned from web services over pronouns today, so why not let people be clear? Our community is small and needs to work at recruitment and retention in order for the hobby to survive, so why not welcome marginalized groups whose marginalized status isn't relevant to the hobby community in any way?

There is clearly part of the community that rejects people based on differences, in spite of the fact that we're all a bunch of weird adults messing around with dolls. XD

 

5 hours ago, RetroKanojo said:

But I do believe that we as a community should stay vigilant and sensitive to these things. 

That's why you won't hear me calling something Nazi, unless it's really Nazi. If I say Nazi, you can know I have good reason, and I'm not just saying "I don't like that."

In the last 25 years quite a few public figures have been accused of being Nazis, and so much so that I don't think people take the word seriously anymore. A few of those public figures are Nazi's though, and I really think people should have looked up and taken notice when someone called them that. When things get watered down it makes it too easy for people to say to themselves "I don't need to deal with this difficult thing because it isn't serious." As I've said before, I think this particular incident was just him being clueless. I can understand people pointing the association out to him, and his reaction seems to have been his typical implosion. 
 

5 hours ago, RetroKanojo said:

Really, if Danny had actually apologized

How many public figures could have saved their careers with a genuine apology? I'm not an influencer with loads of followers like Danny, so I don't know what it's like to have losing that as a pressure. I do know that folks in that situation do seem to have an inability to publicly issue a genuine apology. Is it because position puts them between a rock and a hard place, or is it that people who seek that position tend to be narcissistic to start out? 

It's my own observation that Danny prefers to run from the issue rather than stand up and deal with his errors. I mean blocking people who disagree, banning them from his store, hiding behind his staff's "well being," and deleting unpleasant or contrary posts, is sweeping things under the rug and then running away from his own mess imo. 

 

4 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

Like I said I don't know the full history of the Japanese usage and associations of armbands but I'm just saying that fascism itself doesn't exist only within a certain era or country.

Armbands in Japan are used to signify role. They're used by leaders, but also by journalists, construction workers, medics, police, etc. they often have an organization name printed on them, and supposedly they date back to at least the 1920s. Red denotes leadership, but other professions use white or green. Unfortunately, in the west red armbands are associated with communism, socialism, fascism, Nazi uniforms, and Mussolini's blackshirts. Those associations, as negative as they are to us, don't imo give us the right to superimpose that experience on another culture. It boils down to context, and we're all supposed to be able to put things in context. I don't see any real harm in how Japan uses them today, but I do get how they can be perceived here. 
 

4 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

Furthermore, this issues around that post has always been about the optics

Optics still require context though. A thing needs to be considered from the perspective of the person, place, or time it originated in. If you lift it out of its original context and place into a new context that it doesn't fit, you're going to end up making incorrect judgements. Even if Danny isn't Japanese, and isn't marketing to Japanese, he is attempting to market certain elements of Japanese culture to the west. 

Edit:

5 hours ago, RetroKanojo said:

I don't have a hard time believing that some individuals straight up accused him of being a Nazi.

This entire thread started back in 2019 because of a tasteless image of Danny as a Nazi. 

 

1 hour ago, BeyondTime said:

Optics still require context though. A thing needs to be considered from the perspective of the person, place, or time it originated in. If you lift it out of its original context and place into a new context that it doesn't fit, you're going to end up making incorrect judgements. Even if Danny isn't Japanese, and isn't marketing to Japanese, he is attempting to market certain elements of Japanese culture to the west. 

Actually...
I wonder how that image was received by the "parents who buy for their little kids". (Assuming that not all are super familiar with anime tropes, or japanese culture)

1 hour ago, Yumeiro said:

Actually...
I wonder how that image was received by the "parents who buy for their little kids". (Assuming that not all are super familiar with anime tropes, or japanese culture)

Heh, that's a very good point. 

5 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

Is it because position puts them between a rock and a hard place, or is it that people who seek that position tend to be narcissistic to start out? 

I assume its a mix of both. This doesn’t really apply to Danny himself, but once I watched a video on influencer apologies. One of the points brought up was that a lot of influencers see apologies as damage control or a way to easily get forgiveness. 

7 hours ago, Yumeiro said:

Actually...
I wonder how that image was received by the "parents who buy for their little kids". (Assuming that not all are super familiar with anime tropes, or japanese culture)

tropes such as loli and huge bewbs

 

I have 2 smart dolls(starlight and prowess), but when I bought them I didn't know all of the issues concerning SD, I'm jewish so WW2 comes close to home. I do love prowess I don't really connect with starlight. of course I don't think I'll buy from CJ again. Even if there is no controversy all of DC's Instagram is all "look at the new dolls I created who will not be for sale. or I'll sell them as OOAK for like 3 time more than the normal dolls" it became really frustrating.

I'll just stay with DD and other brands.  

So I just read that people purchasing a doll for the first time in Australia will no longer be able to because he has had packages returned.

We have a 1k cut-off here in Australia, where at 1k or over you're charged import duties. He's saying most people who don't pay are Australian.

It seems like if it continues, he may just stop selling to Australians all together.

It's frustrating because heaps of companies deal with this, even Volks would and any other luxury company, but he is the only one I know who would ban an entire country from ordering - and also say they won't resell the returned dolls?

 

Also gonna say it - this being his ridiculous for not selling a returned and unused doll is silly.
If you care about being profitable as a business, and about losing money.. just.. sell the doll.

2 hours ago, Vampurrr said:

Also gonna say it - this being his ridiculous for not selling a returned and unused doll is silly.
If you care about being profitable as a business, and about losing money.. just.. sell the doll.

I see in the comment that people are agreeing with this WTF??? I really love smart dolls and the new frame looks very good but it's really hard to support stuff like this...:(  

I think this is a direct consequence of Smartdoll somehow getting so many people unfamilar with expensive dolls as first time buyers.

Australia probably has a higher rate of returned packages -because- we only pay import tax over $1000AUD, and while plenty of us are buying stuff from overseas all the time, the average Australian is usually -not- buying things over $1000AUD - therefore there are a whole lot of people who legitimately have no idea the tax is a thing because they havent experienced it and likely never will. Compare this to places like Europe, where there are taxes on almost any amount so almost everyone knows about it. Even a first time expensive doll buyer is probably already expecting a tax.

When you're brand new to expensive dolls and potentially have never been hit with the email that you have to pay an extra couple of hundred to even get the package, it's going to be a shock. AU BJD/DD fans, and particularly hardcore figure collectors with huge monthly orders, are well used to it and complain about it but we're not going to just not pay. These people not paying are definitely people who legitimately had no idea the tax existed, which is fair considering it doesn't for the average online shopper.

That's my theory, anyway - although i'm wondering wtf all these people are buying considering you'd still have to spend at least 90000 JPY yen worth right now to get over 1000AUD - so its odd its an issue now and not in 2020 when it was more like 70000. (Unless the better exchange rate made people go a bit nuts with the spending?)

EDIT: I wonder why Danny isnt using EMS...? I have never received a customs charge when the package is shipped by EMS, whether its over the threshold or not. Volks shipped 9S by EMS and he was something like $1200 at the time, and my friend shipped a doll by EMS to me that was well over the threshold, but neither got taxed on arrival. My SD Cecile Volks shipped during 2020 was DHL and got the ransom fee. Now they're back to EMS again. I was under the impression that DHL was more expensive for him to offer than EMS, so why....?

Anyway, Danny cutting out an entire demographic over something that could have easily been solved with a disclaimer while punishing people that behaved, what else is new.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Monty

45 minutes ago, Monty said:

I think this is a direct consequence of Smartdoll somehow getting so many people unfamilar with expensive dolls as first time buyers.

Australia probably has a higher rate of returned packages -because- we only pay import tax over $1000AUD, and while plenty of us are buying stuff from overseas all the time, the average Australian is usually -not- buying things over $1000AUD - therefore there are a whole lot of people who legitimately have no idea the tax is a thing because they havent experienced it and likely never will. Compare this to places like Europe, where there are taxes on almost any amount so almost everyone knows about it. Even a first time expensive doll buyer is probably already expecting a tax.

When you're brand new to expensive dolls and potentially have never been hit with the email that you have to pay an extra couple of hundred to even get the package, it's going to be a shock. AU BJD/DD fans, and particularly hardcore figure collectors with huge monthly orders, are well used to it and complain about it but we're not going to just not pay. These people not paying are definitely people who legitimately had no idea the tax existed, which is fair considering it doesn't for the average online shopper.

That's my theory, anyway - although i'm wondering wtf all these people are buying considering you'd still have to spend at least 90000 JPY yen worth right now to get over 1000AUD - so its odd its an issue now and not in 2020 when it was more like 70000. (Unless the better exchange rate made people go a bit nuts with the spending?)

EDIT: I wonder why Danny isnt using EMS...? I have never received a customs charge when the package is shipped by EMS, whether its over the threshold or not. Volks shipped 9S by EMS and he was something like $1200 at the time, and my friend shipped a doll by EMS to me that was well over the threshold, but neither got taxed on arrival. My SD Cecile Volks shipped during 2020 was DHL and got the ransom fee. Now they're back to EMS again. I was under the impression that DHL was more expensive for him to offer than EMS, so why....?

Anyway, Danny cutting out an entire demographic over something that could have easily been solved with a disclaimer while punishing people that behaved, what else is new.

True, though even at his website its marketed towards kids(a lot of kids photos with the dolls). but who will buy a 500usd doll for their child and that it's not that sturdy for children, also in my country we pay customs from 75 usd so I knew it was coming  

47 minutes ago, Monty said:

I think this is a direct consequence of Smartdoll somehow getting so many people unfamilar with expensive dolls as first time buyers.

Australia probably has a higher rate of returned packages -because- we only pay import tax over $1000AUD, and while plenty of us are buying stuff from overseas all the time, the average Australian is usually -not- buying things over $1000AUD - therefore there are a whole lot of people who legitimately have no idea the tax is a thing because they havent experienced it and likely never will. Compare this to places like Europe, where there are taxes on almost any amount so almost everyone knows about it. Even a first time expensive doll buyer is probably already expecting a tax.

When you're brand new to expensive dolls and potentially have never been hit with the email that you have to pay an extra couple of hundred to even get the package, it's going to be a shock. AU BJD/DD fans, and particularly hardcore figure collectors with huge monthly orders, are well used to it and complain about it but we're not going to just not pay. These people not paying are definitely people who legitimately had no idea the tax existed, which is fair considering it doesn't for the average online shopper.

That's my theory, anyway - although i'm wondering wtf all these people are buying considering you'd still have to spend at least 90000 JPY yen worth right now to get over 1000AUD - so its odd its an issue now and not in 2020 when it was more like 70000. (Unless the better exchange rate made people go a bit nuts with the spending?)

EDIT: I wonder why Danny isnt using EMS...? I have never received a customs charge when the package is shipped by EMS, whether its over the threshold or not. Volks shipped 9S by EMS and he was something like $1200 at the time, and my friend shipped a doll by EMS to me that was well over the threshold, but neither got taxed on arrival. My SD Cecile Volks shipped during 2020 was DHL and got the ransom fee. Now they're back to EMS again. I was under the impression that DHL was more expensive for him to offer than EMS, so why....?

Anyway, Danny cutting out an entire demographic over something that could have easily been solved with a disclaimer while punishing people that behaved, what else is new.

Yes! Exactly.
People don't just buy things for the fun of denying them and getting them returned. I'm sure most people were incredibly excited to get their dolls, until they saw the import charge.
It's why I haven't ordered the new Sony AIBO off of eBay yet - I know I'd have to pay an import charge as it's over $1000, so I'd need to have the extra money on me.

I only know ONE person who knows of the import charges, and that's because he's a mechanic who sometimes has to order parts from Europe and America, and he owns a business. Otherwise I never would have even known it was a thing until he told me.
I also believe the $1000 import tax is kinda/sorta recent? At least of 2018. People who just got into the hobby especially wouldn't know with this being put into place from 2018, as it's really not common knowledge at all.

Smart Doll were basically the first vinyl dolls I heard about. There were way more people talking about them to me than Volks, for some reason.
I'm not sure why, but I've met more Australians whose first dolls were SMD over DD.

I've actually always been curious about how much time you get to pay. I'm sure most people would try to pay it when they find out about it, as most people would want their girls really badly

I just went onto the SmartDoll site just to look, and it just says "Courier Shipping" which is odd.. It used to say DHL

2 hours ago, TVXD said:

I see in the comment that people are agreeing with this WTF??? I really love smart dolls and the new frame looks very good but it's really hard to support stuff like this...:(  

He says it's bad if it were meant for someone else to resell.. but to me, it's worse that they may end up as just being stain testers 😕

5 minutes ago, Vampurrr said:

I've actually always been curious about how much time you get to pay.

Might depend on the region, over here DHL is a bit finicky as a first time import experience.

Here you get seven days to pay the duties starting from the date of arrival if you want to declare the item yourself. or pay 20 euros on top of the duties to have them do the declaration stuff and somehow extract the duties from you.

EMS on the other hand uses the general postal service, and gives you two weeks time to declare the item.

So in a really bad example, if the contact information on the shipping information doesent include a phone number or email address, a physical arrival notice will eat up a few days of the payment window.

Tracking information is a bit cryptic, since DHL boxes might have several customs notices along the way, depending on where they go through.

 

Just now, finnleo said:

Might depend on the region, over here DHL is a bit finicky as a first time import experience.

Here you get seven days to pay the duties starting from the date of arrival if you want to declare the item yourself. or pay 20 euros on top of the duties to have them do the declaration stuff and somehow extract the duties from you.

EMS on the other hand uses the general postal service, and gives you two weeks time to declare the item.

So in a really bad example, if the contact information on the shipping information doesent include a phone number or email address, a physical arrival notice will eat up a few days of the payment window.

Tracking information is a bit cryptic, since DHL boxes might have several customs notices along the way, depending on where they go through.

 

Oh damn.
That sounds confusing and annoying.

I plan on buying some items over $1,000AUD, so I guess I'll get to experience it first hand soon enough, but I plan on calling our border service first to see what I have to do in regards to making it easy.

5 hours ago, Vampurrr said:

If you care about being profitable as a business, and about losing money.. just.. sell the doll.

He's made clear on a few occasions that making money on all of this is not his priority. If you look back over his comments on protecting his staff from being victimized by "the entitled" you'll see his comments on his lack of concern over how profitable his business is.

My 2 cents on the bad karma thing. 

 

In Japan they do believe that dolls have a soul and that it is indeed bad karma if a doll gets discarded and/or returned. It is not something Danny invented, but rather how (some) people in Japan view dolls. They even have doll burials for when an owner has to part with their doll. They thank their dolls for the time spent together and stuff. They see dolls as living things. Of course with the costs of Dollfie and SmD it is a bit less dramatic and we're free to resell and such. But for some types of dolls it is not done to resell. 

For people outside Japan this may be odd and may be regarded as wtf dude. But it is really a thing.

 

Then again, regarding the tax. It seems confusing when you only have to pay above 1000$ AUD. I can imagine that people get surprised by that and depending on whether they can afford it they'll pay or not. And it also depends on how it is notified for example. With DHL I often get an email but once it got in spam. Before the use of DHL it was a letter through the actual mail and that was often late and it would get sent back. So it is not always on purpose to "refuse" a payment.

3 minutes ago, Cas said:

It is not something Danny invented, but rather how (some) people in Japan view dolls

Not to say that its not a thing, since even Volks has "doll return bags" for sale, but at the same time there is a thriving aftermarket industry in japan that deals with second hand dolls.

So is this just a case of a cherry picked superstition to suit a narrative, or an actual fear of doom.

45 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

He's made clear on a few occasions that making money on all of this is not his priority. If you look back over his comments on protecting his staff from being victimized by "the entitled" you'll see his comments on his lack of concern over how profitable his business is.

I know it's not his priority, but at the same time, if it's happening as frequently as he says it is, and affecting the business, it seems like a pretty clear way to help your bottom line by selling the returned dolls that are just decoration in the shop or as stain testers.

40 minutes ago, Cas said:

My 2 cents on the bad karma thing. 

 

In Japan they do believe that dolls have a soul and that it is indeed bad karma if a doll gets discarded and/or returned. It is not something Danny invented, but rather how (some) people in Japan view dolls. They even have doll burials for when an owner has to part with their doll. They thank their dolls for the time spent together and stuff. They see dolls as living things. Of course with the costs of Dollfie and SmD it is a bit less dramatic and we're free to resell and such. But for some types of dolls it is not done to resell. 

For people outside Japan this may be odd and may be regarded as wtf dude. But it is really a thing.

 

Then again, regarding the tax. It seems confusing when you only have to pay above 1000$ AUD. I can imagine that people get surprised by that and depending on whether they can afford it they'll pay or not. And it also depends on how it is notified for example. With DHL I often get an email but once it got in spam. Before the use of DHL it was a letter through the actual mail and that was often late and it would get sent back. So it is not always on purpose to "refuse" a payment.

 

* Some people in Japan believe that. It's not an everyone thing. Hence that there is a thriving second-hand culture there. If most people believed that, Mandrake wouldn't have a doll section.

Even other companies will sell their returned dolls in Japan.

Maybe Danny believes in that, I don't know, I can't speak for it entirely.. But I do remember him getting rid of his Dollfie dolls when he got irritated with Volks lmao

39 minutes ago, finnleo said:

Not to say that its not a thing, since even Volks has "doll return bags" for sale, but at the same time there is a thriving aftermarket industry in japan that deals with second hand dolls.

So is this just a case of a cherry picked superstition to suit a narrative, or an actual fear of doom.

 

6 minutes ago, Vampurrr said:

 

* Some people in Japan believe that. It's not an everyone thing. Hence that there is a thriving second-hand culture there. If most people believed that, Mandrake wouldn't have a doll section.

Even other companies will sell their returned dolls in Japan.

Maybe Danny believes in that, I don't know, I can't speak for it entirely.. But I do remember him getting rid of his Dollfie dolls when he got irritated with Volks lmao

 I did say "how (some) people view dolls". I didn't say anywhere that the whole of Japan believes this. Maybe I worded it a bit wrong, I am not English, but I meant that it is an existing belief in Japan for some people. 

Just now, Cas said:

 

 I did say "how (some) people view dolls". I didn't say anywhere that the whole of Japan believes this. Maybe I worded it a bit wrong, I am not English, but I meant that it is an existing belief in Japan for some people. 

True, apologies for that!

In general I just get weird vibes from Danny with his behaviours. The fact he got rid of his Dollfie dolls easily makes me feel he doesn't strongly believe in it, and he acts like a victim a lot when people call him out on things.

36 minutes ago, Cas said:

 I did say "how (some) people view dolls". I didn't say anywhere that the whole of Japan believes this. Maybe I worded it a bit wrong, I am not English, but I meant that it is an existing belief in Japan for some people. 

As I mentioned it is most definately a thing. But its more about the subject matter having a tendancy of picking japanese or asian concepts, traditions, and superstitions that suit to support a view on any given narrative that happens to be on topic that week for whatever reason. and given how western the whole product line seems at the moment, is there any merit in even trying to hide behind these local traditional concepts.