The Facebook debacle & other issues

@Roserolls

What can you buy that isn't listed on the site? (O_o)

I also find the marketing of SmDs with children weird. Young children are not gentle with dolls; they wouldn't find activities like posing and photographing dolls interesting until they were at least 12, and they would still be neglectful of the doll in various ways.

Playing with the wig by braiding / tying / cutting it, not being aware of stains from dark outfits, bending the limbs in ways which make them break, attempting a "face up" with human makeup or crayons and markers... there is so much that could go wrong.

There are also pictures of schoolchildren using Smart Dolls for education. Seriously, outside of fashion design classes and a few crafts, Smart Dolls are a luxurious toy for adult collectors. TT_TT

2 hours ago, meteorite said:

@Roserolls

What can you buy that isn't listed on the site? (O_o)

I also find the marketing of SmDs with children weird. Young children are not gentle with dolls; they wouldn't find activities like posing and photographing dolls interesting until they were at least 12, and they would still be neglectful of the doll in various ways.

Playing with the wig by braiding / tying / cutting it, not being aware of stains from dark outfits, bending the limbs in ways which make them break, attempting a "face up" with human makeup or crayons and markers... there is so much that could go wrong.

There are also pictures of schoolchildren using Smart Dolls for education. Seriously, outside of fashion design classes and a few crafts, Smart Dolls are a luxurious toy for adult collectors. TT_TT

crazy isn't?

6 hours ago, meteorite said:

@Roserolls

What can you buy that isn't listed on the site? (O_o)

I also find the marketing of SmDs with children weird. Young children are not gentle with dolls; they wouldn't find activities like posing and photographing dolls interesting until they were at least 12, and they would still be neglectful of the doll in various ways.

Playing with the wig by braiding / tying / cutting it, not being aware of stains from dark outfits, bending the limbs in ways which make them break, attempting a "face up" with human makeup or crayons and markers... there is so much that could go wrong.

There are also pictures of schoolchildren using Smart Dolls for education. Seriously, outside of fashion design classes and a few crafts, Smart Dolls are a luxurious toy for adult collectors. TT_TT

The dolls being used for "educational purposes" creeps me out. Come on. They're anime waifu dolls for adult collectors. Period. Ultimately DC comes off as someone who has the moolah to pursue his hobby, which is Smart Doll, while he's also trying to profit from it. I totally agree that using very young children in the marketing for Smart doll is weird and it never made sense to me. It's giving mixed signals. I don't know if it's a feeble attempt at virtue signaling or what but it's quite out of place. 

The sad thing is, the brand used to be really great and enticing, down to the clothing that was sold, which was more everyday and fashionable (one of my favorite items that used to be sold were the puffer jackets.) But now it's mainly post-apocalyptic/sci fi stuff (not hating because I love TWD, it's just a more niche style.) This style revolves around his own interests, again, that's fine. But that makes harder to appeal to most. If I want clothing for a Smart Doll that's more casual, I'd have to hit up Etsy and other places. Smart Doll is just a big expensive sandbox for DC and when you have the nerve to say "actually there are some noticeable issues with the dolls or the buying/secondhand market process, he literally throws a fit and proclaims that he will take his ball and go home. 

21 minutes ago, ladyandlion said:

I don't know if it's a feeble attempt at virtue signaling or what

It's an odd combination of virtue signaling, as well as trying to sell "designer Barbie" to rich parents. 

I believe that the virtue signaling also serves as a cover since Japaneses IPs want little to do with the brand anymore. And it's no wonder why. Japanese companies expect a certain level of professionalism. There's no reason to work with Danny when they can just work with Volks.

8 hours ago, meteorite said:

@Roserolls

What can you buy that isn't listed on the site? (O_o)

I also find the marketing of SmDs with children weird. Young children are not gentle with dolls; they wouldn't find activities like posing and photographing dolls interesting until they were at least 12, and they would still be neglectful of the doll in various ways.

Playing with the wig by braiding / tying / cutting it, not being aware of stains from dark outfits, bending the limbs in ways which make them break, attempting a "face up" with human makeup or crayons and markers... there is so much that could go wrong.

There are also pictures of schoolchildren using Smart Dolls for education. Seriously, outside of fashion design classes and a few crafts, Smart Dolls are a luxurious toy for adult collectors. TT_TT

Ah, I was referring to the repair/replacement parts that you have to contact them for. It's a bit of a strange practice when it comes to bjds, where the bodies or parts are often available to buy straight from the site. Some brands/dealers will even show what other brands' skin tones match theirs if they don't sell the parts themselves.

I was so shocked when he said that many of his customers are parents buying them for their kids! Don't Smart Dolls still have the knees that can't bend past a 90 degree angle? I feel like kids will NOT pay attention to that or the arm joints and can easily end up breaking them. I'm still stunned that there are parents out there willing to buy a (normally) $500 doll for their kids, even if they're super rich and the kids have an interest in them.

EDIT: additionally, the fact that they're advertised as "fashion dolls" is also an odd choice, since you know....they don't come with any fashion besides undies. There's not too many clothes available from his shop either, and they're all really expensive. Dolls like Barbie, Pullip, Rainbow High, Momoko, Azone, etc are considered fashion dolls because there's a high emphasis on the clothing, either having options to change between many outfits or to have really nice high quality ones. It's normal for bjds/mjds to come nude since there's more of an emphasis on owner customization instead. I don't understand why he doesn't want to advertise them as the bjds/mjds that they are, maybe he thinks calling them "fashion dolls" will have a wider appeal? The more I think about his marketing strategies, the more confused that I get lol 😵

Edited April 29, 2024 by Roserolls

1 hour ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

It's an odd combination of virtue signaling, as well as trying to sell "designer Barbie" to rich parents. 

I believe that the virtue signaling also serves as a cover since Japaneses IPs want little to do with the brand anymore. And it's no wonder why. Japanese companies expect a certain level of professionalism. There's no reason to work with Danny when they can just work with Volks.

A cover? Really? A cover for what? I'm not sure I understand how Japanese brands work as a whole beyond "customer is always right". And I know that irks Danny Choo as he's always repeating how he doesn't agree with that notion (um...seems like you picked the wrong country for that.) I'm only aware of Volks as that's the company I've had the most dealings with myself. I do like that Smart Doll has a more mainstream appeal, but...I do find Choo's lack of PR and awareness to be irritating and awkward. And there's simply no need to make things harder than they have to be. That's why at this point, to me, it feels like the brand is just for his devoted followers that love his over the top branding/focus on diversity (don't get me wrong. Diversity is super important and it's one of the main reasons I was considering buying from him) and those he knows won't criticize the product. I do enjoy Dollfie Dream's body shape more, but I liked that Smart Doll offered more skintone variety (as well as the semi-real sculpts later on.) Volks seems more niche to be sure and they know their customers. But if DC is trying to create that same level of luxury and exclusivity, I don't feel like it's effective and to me it's working against what he was initially doing when it first started. 

Sorry if I'm late to this discussion, but I just found out Smartdoll made an autistic doll. I'm an autistic person! I wanna talk about this.

https://shop.smartdoll.jp/collections/filter-smart-doll-story-tellers/products/smart-doll-limitless

The doll is 'Limitless', and she features a UV-reactive paint on her forehead showing off an infinity sign, the symbol for the autistic community. We can discuss the pros and cons of shooting UV light directly at your vinyl doll's face-flesh another time, right now I want to discuss how irrationally angry this doll makes me. We definitely need more autistic representation out there, especially for autistic women. But to me, this is about as inclusive as making a doll with rainbow facepaint and going "this is the gay one :)" (which...they did do). Representing physical disabilities, medical devices, body types, etc, that's all great! But these dolls inherently have almost no character, you're meant to project whatever you want onto them. They aren't characters with personalities that can represent autism, like say, Monster High's Twyla. Basically, what I'm saying is...any of the dolls can be autistic. Literally any one of them you want. Just decide they have autism.

Her description doesn't even have anything to say about autism, really. Just treats it as a stepping stone to "broaden the scope of awareness, extending it beyond autism to encompass the entirety of neurodiversity". Like...is this just me? Am I overthinking this?

To add on everyone's discussion, am I the only one who is tired of Danny constantly talking about Volks? A few days ago, he liked an IG comment saying Volks standard dolls are ugly..I'm sure if Volks was caught doing the same thing he'd have a tantrum.

1 hour ago, ladyandlion said:

A cover? Really? A cover for what? I'm not sure I understand how Japanese brands work as a whole beyond "customer is always right". And I know that irks Danny Choo as he's always repeating how he doesn't agree with that notion (um...seems like you picked the wrong country for that.) I'm only aware of Volks as that's the company I've had the most dealings with myself. I do like that Smart Doll has a more mainstream appeal, but...I do find Choo's lack of PR and awareness to be irritating and awkward. And there's simply no need to make things harder than they have to be. That's why at this point, to me, it feels like the brand is just for his devoted followers that love his over the top branding/focus on diversity (don't get me wrong. Diversity is super important and it's one of the main reasons I was considering buying from him) and those he knows won't criticize the product. I do enjoy Dollfie Dream's body shape more, but I liked that Smart Doll offered more skintone variety (as well as the semi-real sculpts later on.) Volks seems more niche to be sure and they know their customers. But if DC is trying to create that same level of luxury and exclusivity, I don't feel like it's effective and to me it's working against what he was initially doing when it first started. 

I don't know what he means by "cover" either. He really should elaborate on that. I can tell Japanese IPs don't seem to want to collab with SmD anymore though... I don't see any collab dolls if at all nowadays. I do like the diversity, as the main thing I like about SmDs is the variety in skin tones and parts to give your doll (my main gripe with Volks was the colorism problem, but that's not just a Volks thing tbh), but that alone does not a good company make.... Rose also makes a point that these are clearly not fashion dolls, due to the emphasis on owner customization SmD has, I don't think it's a smart move to do that, since fashion doll enthusiasts are probably going to find them disappointing due to the perceived dishonesty.

46 minutes ago, Athenacastle said:

To add on everyone's discussion, am I the only one who is tired of Danny constantly talking about Volks? A few days ago, he liked an IG comment saying Volks standard dolls are ugly..I'm sure if Volks was caught doing the same thing he'd have a tantrum.

Also, this is how one alienates a good chunk of their customer base.... Especially when he was influenced by Volks in the first place, and I'm pretty sure a good chunk of his initial fanbase was DD enthusiasts. This is just childish....

8 minutes ago, RozenGermain said:

Rose also makes a point that these are clearly not fashion dolls, due to the emphasis on owner customization SmD has, I don't think it's a smart move to do that, since fashion doll enthusiasts are probably going to find them disappointing due to the perceived dishonesty.

I disagree. Speaking as someone who collects BJDs, vinyl dolls, and fashion dolls, I think Smart Dolls are fashion dolls taking a page out of the BJD playbook. Danny historically (though not as of late, given the popularity) detested customized Smart Dolls, to the point that customizers were driven out of the community for some time. Danny also follows the high-end collector fashion dolls business model far more than any BJD company; he releases set characters with creator-determined hair and eyes in a limited quantity. Sometimes they sell well, sometimes they don't, but almost all are going to be discontinued shortly after release. All that's missing is a default outfit now and, considering they offer free patterns to DIY clothes on their website, it's not a deal breaker. If anything, Smart Dolls feel far more similar to Blythes than they do to DDs in terms of their sales model.

Conversely, Dollfie Dreams are BJDs that take inspiration from fashion dolls. It's a small distinction, but an important one when discussing the differences between the two.

1 hour ago, Athenacastle said:

A few days ago, he liked an IG comment saying Volks standard dolls are ugly..

57 minutes ago, RozenGermain said:

I don't know what he means by "cover" either. He really should elaborate on that.

Danny shifted Smartdoll from being focused in the anime / otaku culture, to being focused both on Western cultural norms as well as heavy marketing to children / parents. That much is fairly obvious. The reasons for such a dramatic shift can only be speculated. My speculation is that Danny really wasn't able to offer a competitive answer to volks in the "otaku" / "anime collector" market. He got a few anime collaborations, which he loved.  Indeed, in a famous blunder he teased deals that were clearly not finalized, like the 2B. He wanted to have a 2B Smartdoll, but Volks got the contract with SquareEnix, not Danny.

As the Japanese IPs backed away from Danny, and Volks continued to lead in the "anime" space, Danny (I speculate) decided to shift focus and target audiences where Volks was absent.  Now, one could argue that Danny genuinely has both huge heart for the Western diversity / inclusion angle, and also a great love of children, education, etc.  But personally I have my doubts.  Rather, I believe that his initial idea did not really pan out, so he's sought a new market; a market that does not care about Japanese IPs. He couldn't best Volks at their best, nor charm the Japanese collectors, so he needed to come up with something else. I think this is the case because of the clumsy way in which these new markets are sought, especially the way in which Smartdoll is NOT designed to be, and still isn't a child friendly toy. To me, this market shift points more to Danny trying to sell to a new type of customer that Volks does not cater to. I have my doubts that this shift represents a true passion for the child / family market.  If the passion were genuine, the dolls would have been designed for kids.

2 hours ago, PlasticJester said:

Sorry if I'm late to this discussion, but I just found out Smartdoll made an autistic doll. I'm an autistic person! I wanna talk about this.

https://shop.smartdoll.jp/collections/filter-smart-doll-story-tellers/products/smart-doll-limitless

The doll is 'Limitless', and she features a UV-reactive paint on her forehead showing off an infinity sign, the symbol for the autistic community. We can discuss the pros and cons of shooting UV light directly at your vinyl doll's face-flesh another time, right now I want to discuss how irrationally angry this doll makes me. We definitely need more autistic representation out there, especially for autistic women. But to me, this is about as inclusive as making a doll with rainbow facepaint and going "this is the gay one :)" (which...they did do). Representing physical disabilities, medical devices, body types, etc, that's all great! But these dolls inherently have almost no character, you're meant to project whatever you want onto them. They aren't characters with personalities that can represent autism, like say, Monster High's Twyla. Basically, what I'm saying is...any of the dolls can be autistic. Literally any one of them you want. Just decide they have autism.

Her description doesn't even have anything to say about autism, really. Just treats it as a stepping stone to "broaden the scope of awareness, extending it beyond autism to encompass the entirety of neurodiversity". Like...is this just me? Am I overthinking this?

nope ya not alone my face doesn't have a tattoo that glows. ( yes am austic too lol)

5 minutes ago, SonataAvalon said:

+ Support of minority. Which is cool.

I now think he should compete with Volks at any time. Surpass their market. 

 

Truthfully, I think one of the reasons he switched his target audience was he couldn't surpass their market. I'm not trying to hold Volks up as this massively superior product, but it definitely had an established niche long before Smartdoll was a thing.

10 hours ago, Roserolls said:

additionally, the fact that they're advertised as "fashion dolls" is also an odd choice, since you know....they don't come with any fashion besides undies. 

Ah, the times when Mirai and co. came with fullset clothes and shoes, for the same price as a "nude" one today...

Almost like he found out that it is not sustainable, if he wants to make a profit... And that there's a reason for lotteries or limited availability from Volks (and other companies). 🤔 
Nah! I bet he just changed his mind! /s

13 hours ago, ladyandlion said:

The dolls being used for "educational purposes" creeps me out. Come on. They're anime waifu dolls for adult collectors. Period.

I agree with you, in case it wasn't clear. They shouldn't be given to children at all and the sexual aspects of the hobby make it completely inappropriate. 

I was imagining college/university level fashion design classes where a large doll as a model might be useful, but there are better options than $500 anime dolls for that.

11 hours ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

Danny shifted Smartdoll from being focused in the anime / otaku culture, to being focused both on Western cultural norms as well as heavy marketing to children / parents. That much is fairly obvious. The reasons for such a dramatic shift can only be speculated. My speculation is that Danny really wasn't able to offer a competitive answer to volks in the "otaku" / "anime collector" market. He got a few anime collaborations, which he loved.  Indeed, in a famous blunder he teased deals that were clearly not finalized, like the 2B. He wanted to have a 2B Smartdoll, but Volks got the contract with SquareEnix, not Danny.

Now you're making wonder.... How much of my two big issues with Volks (boy bodies not being easy to get, colorism with how hard the darkest option is to get and how that's just a light tan) can be traced back to it's target audience of otaku subculture? Otaku are pretty looked down on in JP if I'm being honest (as someone who called themselves an otaku before despite my problems with the subculture), but that's not really the point. If you're familiar with the "otaku fantasy" genre of light novel/anime, you'll notice certain tropes (the stereotypical otaku fantasy plot is that a Kirito-sue goes to another world where women fall for him despite being a loser, and any man who could threaten that is an evil creep). This, coupled with me learning on this forum (don't remember the thread though) that the main demographic in Volks' fanbase in regards to Dollfie Dream is male otaku, had me thinking about that. Like you, I have no idea why Danny would pivot to a more "playline doll" market anyway, but it would make sense for it to be that he's not able to compete with Volks in the otaku market. Maybe the increase in diversity/variety with his dolls is part of an attempt to distance himself from otaku, even if the consequence is that SmD is friendlier in regards to owner customization than before. Someone earlier did say that SmDs have more mainstream appeal, likely because Danny's marketing of stuff that otaku stereotypically don't like. Doesn't excuse Danny's current "boys are icky" mentality in regards to the dolls though, or his behavior.

Edited April 30, 2024 by RozenGermain
needed clarity. I was talking DD, not SD

5 minutes ago, SonataAvalon said:

I know that he doesn't agree with Volks, but his way isn't going to work with consumers, and for new customers, due to his elitism, it's scaring the OG audience away from even trying to buy one, either they can't buy one, or they don't understand his vision.
The biggest thing in business is to do something better than another. Do something that even if it doesn't work for you, do it anyway. Be greedy! 
Sorry for a tangent, it's just I don't like how he's running this.

I pretty much agree with you here. I'm pretty weirded out by him dropping the anime concept too, because I think that has more mainstream appeal than whatever he's doing now.... I think I said the Volks stuff is completely unprofessional too, but at this point I have reasonable doubt that Danny even wants collabs now. This really does explain why Square Enix went with Volks rather than SmD for the collab dolls tbh, Volks was the bigger company, and is run more professionally too, which is more important.

46 minutes ago, RozenGermain said:

This, coupled with me learning on this forum (don't remember the thread though) that the main demographic in Volks' fanbase is male otaku, had me thinking about that.

That's probably true for the Dollfie Dream line, but their flagship product is Super Dollfie and that was always targeted at girls.

16 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

That's probably true for the Dollfie Dream line, but their flagship product is Super Dollfie and that was always targeted at girls.

That's what I was talking about actually... I probably should have worded it clearer that I was talking about Dollfie Dreams specifically...

Edited April 30, 2024 by RozenGermain

10 minutes ago, SonataAvalon said:

The glue that made their company...

Yeah, I think most people know Volks for the dolls and not the other hobby stuff!

On 4/30/2024 at 6:48 AM, RozenGermain said:

Yeah, I think most people know Volks for the dolls and not the other hobby stuff!

They started as a mom & pop toy company, and iirc the dolls were added when the president's wife said she'd like to see little girls in the shop in addition to boys. That's when their Tenshi line was born, and Super Dollfie came along much later. 

33 minutes ago, RozenGermain said:

Yeah, I think most people know Volks for the dolls and not the other hobby stuff!

Maybe in the West, but Volks is probably one of the biggest and oldest names in the world of figures and gunpla. Their hobby business existed long before their doll business did (it was founded in 1972!), and that’s partly how Dollfies came to be in the first place—the word is a portmanteau of “doll” and “figure” since they’re dolls that can be posed like figures.

Also, to address your previous comment, it may be true that they started out focused on the male otaku demographic, but I don’t think that’s the case anymore. They really cleaned up their act when DD became more mainstream, and their marketing nowadays seems geared more towards their female fanbase.

The sad truth is, though, that Volks themselves look down on otaku and the DD line—DDs are explicitly banned from all Tenshi stores and Kachuan (their exclusive members-only facility), you can’t do the welcoming ceremony with DDs, and they really only coordinate special events like the cruise around Tokyo Bay and the invite-only auctions and exhibitions for SD owners 😕

This got me thinking about how I would prefer Danny to run his business...

* Keep versions of Mirai in stock in all skin tones (milk/cinnamon, tea, cocoa) as the anime "front line"

* Choose a popular semi-real design (Transcendence? Legion?) to do the same with

* Encourage customisation of the above dolls, like Volks does with Standard Model DDs

* Offer dolls with characteristics like birthmarks, scars as made to order products instead (or offer the marks as a makeup add-on for a small fee)

Only Mirai (the most easily available anime Smart Doll) is popular with both Japanese and Western collectors. The darker skin tones have been praised by both communities as well and it's a niche not filled by Volks. It wouldn't be hard for Danny to cater to both communities if he wanted to. 

16 minutes ago, meteorite said:

It wouldn't be hard for Danny to cater to both communities if he wanted to.

Imo the main issue is that he doesn’t market the dolls in Japanese anymore. There’s been some discussion on his inability to compete with Volks, but I see it as more of a chicken and egg situation—Smart Doll is not popular in Japan despite being headquartered here because the marketing is entirely in English nowadays. I’m not going to get into why that is, but to illustrate my point, I recently asked a popular dealer if their clothes fit SmD and they had no idea these dolls even existed. If Japanese doll collectors/dealers don’t even know what a Smart Doll is, then of course popular anime IP holders won’t even think to do collaborations with them.