The Facebook debacle & other issues

3 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

My experience with doll stains is that some fabric colors stain the doll blue and not the color of the fabric. I've had dark reds stain the doll a blueish black. I am guessing that this may have something to do with the chemical properties of various dyes.

 

Most vinyl doll and clothing makers have disclaimers about fabric staining the surface of the doll. Your best bet is just to get a stain remover and fix it, and you're probably right that posting about it will just get you flack.

You can use Twin Pines Removezit to remove stains. I think you can also use a 10% Benzoyl Peroxide cream that you get from the local pharmacy. I've never used ether of those products for stain removal, but others here have and can give you pointers. 

 

Yeah, for sure. I've got Removezit and i've dealt with stains before, i'm just a little annoyed that he basically got here stained. Not sure why he ships the boys in coloured boxers to start with tbh

1 hour ago, TithorArgentus said:

Default boxers are green, how even?

Yes, how? O.O I had my two smartdoll boys on their default underwares all the time, and no staining. At the moment they have the protective bodysuits (yes, they DO fit boys as well).

@TithorArgentus, that's horrible hear, I'm sorry This comment is not intended to throw darts, but his quality control has really taken a nose dive. Back in the early days of CJ, this wouldn't have happened and if it did, Danny would happily work with the customer and made it right. Now it's "Peasant, you don't like my wabi-sabi stuff? Be gone, you!"

 

I just saw the two Classic Chitose alternates in the prototype garage that sold for a cool $2752. Sorry, but I am calling BS on them being prototypes. They both have a mouth akin to Journey's. Okay, maybe he had designed that mouth prior, but I doubt it. The anime drawings of Chitose had a completely different mouth. I WILL call BS though on both doll's eyebrows. Classic prototype? How convenient that the eyebrows on both dolls are a purple eyebrow color that matches the lavender wig. If I am just misunderstanding the situation, I thought prototypes were made at the time before the original doll came out. This is just purely milking the cash cow for extra, or just so he can say "I can sell anything for any price, and SOMEONE will buy because I'm that good. Deal with it." 

 

"Do not wash or get the face wet as there is a possibility that the paint will smudge." Wait, what? Why not seal the masks before you wheel and deal your customers?

Edited August 30, 2020 by Deyja
spelling

5 hours ago, Deyja said:

If I am just misunderstanding the situation, I thought prototypes were made at the time before the original doll came out.

Nah, prototypes are just that - prototypes. They test new faceups and/or molds.

But that price...  It is just:

5 hours ago, Deyja said:

"I can sell anything for any price, and SOMEONE will buy because I'm that good. Deal with it." 

While yes, they take time and effort to test/develop, but to make customers outright pay for the workload like that is scummy - especially when harping on about how money is not a huge deal for them.
It'd be cool to see prototypes priced in the "normal" range instead. Or even lower, ...because the quality is lower than standard.

24 minutes ago, Yumeiro said:

It'd be cool to see prototypes priced in the "normal" range instead. Or even lower, ...because the quality is lower than standard.

Especially if you need to source a can of MSC to seal the unsealed faceup, which is gonna set you back $20 at the best of times. XD An MSC can sized discount at least!

Edited August 30, 2020 by Katsudon

On 8/29/2020 at 2:46 PM, Q_T said:

 

I did two light edits, with original in the middle.  

 

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to do this! The more orange hues look much more natural... and I really like the approach you took with the brows and the eyeshadow. It makes her so much more relaxing to look at.... I learned a lot from these edits that I can apply when illustrating/doing faceups on dolls with deeper skintones. And I hope if Danny does lurk this thread... that this inspires him to hire artists of color to consult on cocoa girls' faceups in the future.

18 hours ago, sweets said:

You eliminated my main gripe which was just those harsh pale lines, so nice work! If I had any critique, I'd probably advise using subtler colors since the blush/lip color is pretty intense. The eyes look a million times better. 

Also, this is random, but the new "apparel set" for 2020 is just socks and shoes? For a $100 bump in price that's very meh. 

Thanks to everyone that replied!

 

Yes I see it especially bright on mobile devices using Super AMOLED. I tried toning it back a bit like below. (Fiddling with layer style and opacity).

 

 

But it still may be a bit too bight. I also tried using for fun a color scheme based off the name Tomorrow. 

 

 

I was thinking of some more "radical" designs (far from the norm of the designs posted by CJ) but don't want to hijack further on my own concepts.

 

On the topic of stains, I'm actually very surprised about the decision to ship the doll clothed where it would get stained upon arrival. One would think that it would be best to ship separately.

 

On the topic of Prototypes, the only reason I could see for the insane hike in price is that Danny may be trying to prevent flipping on OOAK designs. It's a stretch honestly but I wouldn't put it past people trying to make some kind of profit off a prototype. That said, these practices are honestly starting to turn me off from ever purchasing a doll with a dark skin tone from him. It's unfortunate as many US Black Americans face more severe social economic issues that would prevent them from purchasing a doll for the "Intended demographic" of young children. 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by Q_T

The updated version looks super pretty!

17 hours ago, Q_T said:

On the topic of stains, I'm actually very surprised about the decision to ship the doll clothed where it would get stained upon arrival. One would think that it would be best to ship separately.

I think normally the girls ship in their underwear, but theirs is white so no stain danger. Volks ships the doll nude, and I think Azone does as well.

 

17 hours ago, Q_T said:

But it still may be a bit too bight. I also tried using for fun a color scheme based off the name Tomorrow. 

This one is quite nice.

Only the brave opened up again... and I wish I knew it was kits (there is some speculation about kits), because then I might go for it. >_< I just want to buy a kit without having to deal with any bs. Especially as I want tea or cocoa. As it stands, at this rate I'll just buy a ready-made cocoa girl and wipe her face. An extra 20 quid to know exactly what I'm getting is worth it.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Katsudon

2 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

I think normally the girls ship in their underwear, but theirs is white so no stain danger. Volks ships the doll nude, and I think Azone does as well.

This one is quite nice.

Well this goes on to my next point with these dolls (regarding staining).

Bear with me because I admit it's a bit long but just to get people to understand. 

I do wish he would use more ethnic hairstyles. I do see on his website that they do exist but are generally sold out, but he should keep more around for his promo shots.

Appearance wise, another important and highly misunderstood issue is Black hair. I'll defer to this Twitter post that took the time to actually catalog quite a bit. 

Coming from a mixed family myself, I know there some trouble with since straight hair was the thing, so often you'd have to straighten hair to fit in. It was thick and wild, but easily prone to breaking. It was later on I let my hair do its own thing, and while it's thinning out as I get older. I mean, a lot of Black women end up with damaged heads (not just hair) and are prone to baldness due to trying to fit in the norms. Having a sister really deal with this recently fortunately she's not suffering damage causing baldness but definitely had to regrow her hair. Not only is hair products to fit in a lucrative business, go to most retail chains that do have product out for ethnic hair, it's locked up. Basically a way of saying "Black folks are gonna steal this". 

Okay, so where am I going with this? This took a bit of digging because some reason it was harder to find wigs in the category? I had to do a search. 

 

Pages like this description: https://shop.smartdoll.jp/products/mini-afro?_pos=54&_sid=68ecd5ef7&_ss=r&variant=12732504277063

It comes off hurtful. I can understand, short hairstyles and Black ones are a bit harder to manage. To talk about staining is weird considering you're shipping out dolls in clothes that apparently stain. But really, why go on about that? It really comes off insensitive to a sensitive issue for Black women, even if you're talking about a doll.  Here's more on that lengthy tweet how these girls violated dress codes for having natural hair. Is that the kind of statement you also want to put forth if this is being sold to kids?

 

 

 

 

In all honestly if it's staining the back of the head that's really the least worst thing in the world, sell a headcap or head backs. If you don't want to create more wigs, that feature kinky big hair (which I think Tomorrow's round face is more suited to afros or kinky coils. (I see the twists). Defer to someone who does make them. I mean I think many of us had kinda had enough of the "Becky with the good hair". I guess I'm lucky that my hair is appreciated for what it is: long with coils like (like Goldilocks style) but infuriating on how many people tell me to straighten it. 

 

Again apologies if this is lengthy. 

 

 

 

I forgot exactly when I did it, but I typically no longer read the (very) wordy disclaimers. It's a huge turn off for me. I'm not certain if I read the one for the mini afro earlier or not, but I agree, it certainly does come off as offensive, especially as a POC. I do hope that once Danny has access to the materials we will see more wigs and natural styles like this wig and the twist out again. I don't have a Cocoa doll yet but I plan to get Ruby and Prowess eventually and want them to have more wig options. 

1 hour ago, Q_T said:

Well this goes on to my next point with these dolls (regarding staining).

Bear with me because I admit it's a bit long but just to get people to understand. 

I do wish he would use more ethnic hairstyles. I do see on his website that they do exist but are generally sold out, but he should keep more around for his promo shots.

Appearance wise, another important and highly misunderstood issue is Black hair. I'll defer to this Twitter post that took the time to actually catalog quite a bit. 

Coming from a mixed family myself, I know there some trouble with since straight hair was the thing, so often you'd have to straighten hair to fit in. It was thick and wild, but easily prone to breaking. It was later on I let my hair do its own thing, and while it's thinning out as I get older. I mean, a lot of Black women end up with damaged heads (not just hair) and are prone to baldness due to trying to fit in the norms. Having a sister really deal with this recently fortunately she's not suffering damage causing baldness but definitely had to regrow her hair. Not only is hair products to fit in a lucrative business, go to most retail chains that do have product out for ethnic hair, it's locked up. Basically a way of saying "Black folks are gonna steal this". 

Okay, so where am I going with this? This took a bit of digging because some reason it was harder to find wigs in the category? I had to do a search. 

Pages like this description: https://shop.smartdoll.jp/products/mini-afro?_pos=54&_sid=68ecd5ef7&_ss=r&variant=12732504277063

It comes off hurtful. I can understand, short hairstyles and Black ones are a bit harder to manage. To talk about staining is weird considering you're shipping out dolls in clothes that apparently stain. But really, why go on about that? It really comes off insensitive to a sensitive issue for Black women, even if you're talking about a doll.  Here's more on that lengthy tweet how these girls violated dress codes for having natural hair. Is that the kind of statement you also want to put forth if this is being sold to kids?

In all honestly if it's staining the back of the head that's really the least worst thing in the world, sell a headcap or head backs. If you don't want to create more wigs, that feature kinky big hair (which I think Tomorrow's round face is more suited to afros or kinky coils. (I see the twists). Defer to someone who does make them. I mean I think many of us had kinda had enough of the "Becky with the good hair". I guess I'm lucky that my hair is appreciated for what it is: long with coils like (like Goldilocks style) but infuriating on how many people tell me to straighten it. 

 

 

 

 

I'm so glad you brought this up because i believe it goes hand in hand with the issues surrounding how faceups and the color choices for the Cocoa Dolls. Of course, not every dark skinned person is of African Diaspora, HOWEVER most people automatically think of Africans when they see darker skin. It would be great if he put more effort into creating ethnic/afrocentric hair styles do don't have 3 novels worth of disclaimers about the product. Even seeing a nice faux loc or box braid wig would be amazing. I know there are some tutorials on how to make a faux loc wig yourself but not everyone wants to do that. I've personally debated on the kind of hair style I would want for my Cocoa doll. Unfortunately the hair style I have in mind doesn't seem to exist for dolls cause it involves box braids...

I desperately wish they would put out some natural looking wigs for the cocoa dolls. I just think it is a little odd to go out of the way to sell the cocoa girls but then not make appropriate hair. I'm not going to pretend to know a lot about Black hair, but I have eyes. (I did read the Twitter thread, thank you!) There are so many great hairstyles to choose from. I've seen artists online make a variety of styles, and I would really like to see Smart Doll expand into some of those. I know you can't expect a company to put out every type of wig a person might want, but I do think having a few to fit the doll is an acceptable request. I'm still on the hunt for hair for my cocoa Genesis.

I just noticed he posted an update online earlier. This pic stood out to me and I hope a similar braided wig makes it into production.

Looks like this one has various sized braids.  

Edited August 31, 2020 by Talolili

56 minutes ago, Talolili said:

I just noticed he posted an update online earlier. This pic stood out to me and I hope a similar braided wig makes it into production.

Looks like this one has various sized braids.  

I don't like the style at all. The braids need to be WAY smaller. However, that's definitely a wig that needs to be available. Glad that he's letting the black employee work on it! 

 

In the first photo of the same post, there's a neat beaded hairstyle (the 2nd from the right in the top row) which seems a bit more production-ready.

@MaKayla_Panda I agree. And I'm not sure, but is that yarn?

If anyone wants hairstyles with tight curl patterns/braids, I know Monique Gold makes a few and MG wigs are awesome quality in general. 

I've always wanted this one because it's really cute, but it's kinda pricy (not as pricy as plain straight CJ wigs tho lol):

http://store.monique.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=monique&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MT346

Aw yeah, I've bought wigs from Monique Gold before :3 they're good. Definitely worth it imo and in my friend's opinion XD (we combined orders to save on shipping haha. It was his recommendation)

Speaking of representation and Black hairstyles that desperately need to be a thing, whatever happened to those headwraps he was supposed to release from the very talented black designer? 

14 hours ago, MaKayla_Panda said:

I don't like the style at all. The braids need to be WAY smaller. However, that's definitely a wig that needs to be available. Glad that he's letting the black employee work on it! 

I was under the impression the big braids were to keep the hair to the side while working on the smaller ones that she has in her hands.

 

The doll Tomorrow seems to be more suited to hair like below. She has such a round face like a big ball of sunshine. Where her natural mane of hair would fit that of a Leo/Lion. 😛

Source: https://bestdollsforkids.com/products/rahel-african-doll

 

Or a Zoe Doll (which coincidentally is how my hair is when short lol)

https://healthyrootsdolls.com/product-zoe/

 

or just natural hair

 

 

Just to remind people having hair like the above is fine. Too many women destroying their heads to fit in.

Just more proof for anyone out there of Danny's superior ethics and moral code. Granted, the 'only one ever made' was more reasonably priced in the prototype garage, he's clearly busted lying through his teeth here. And the 'continued requests' to make Valiant without her birthmark I call bull on that, too. Maybe, maybe one person said that in a comment on instagram. But it's good to know while being plagued by the masses, Danny won't sell a doll's soul or his. 😕

 

 

 

Edited September 2, 2020 by Deyja

I also saw the Cocoa Genesis post and... Yikes. Imagine falling in love with a doll so much that you spend twice or thrice the usual price for the OOAK prototype only to learn afterwards that she's not unique and you could have just gotten her in an Only The Brave. Sigh. I hope the owner doesn't see it, because in their place, I'd be pissed. And there's nothing to do about it, really. 

54 minutes ago, LuluChan said:

I also saw the Cocoa Genesis post and... Yikes. Imagine falling in love with a doll so much that you spend twice or thrice the usual price for the OOAK prototype only to learn afterwards that she's not unique and you could have just gotten her in an Only The Brave. Sigh. I hope the owner doesn't see it, because in their place, I'd be pissed. And there's nothing to do about it, really. 

Honestly, while the prototype thing was vaguely distasteful, this is just too much! What an awful way to treat your customers!

I had no idea there was supposed to be only one cocoa Genesis until I saw that FB post. I knew that at least one other person had one, because I shared a pic of mine (chaos trade) on a pic of theirs. 😕 If that is the person who bought the prototype, they already know about mine, at least. She doesn't have the cheek blushing the prototype head had, so I guess if you really wanted to claim they are different, you'd be right. Doesn't seem like much to tack on an extra $500 to me, but I have seen people pay extra for prototypes of face ups that only had a tiny difference like that in the garage. 🤷🏽‍♀️