The Facebook debacle & other issues

9 minutes ago, monkeypizzasonic said:

...I think QT was saying that Volks/Obitsu/Azone don't have the range of skin colors SmD has, so anybody who wants a dark-skinned 1/3 vinyl bjd and doesn't want to deal with dyeing) doesn't have the option of choosing another company over Smartdoll*? "Privileged" is kinda an extreme way to put it though.

*Unless/until Volks starts releasing tan Dollfie Icons more often 

No privilege isn't extreme.

 

As I said I am certain the quote I mentioned was simply a depressing reminder that the fact is its 2021 and doll companies are stuck in "tradional" ways of not being diverse.

So in skin tone there are certain privileges

That doesn't mean "check your privilige" as pointed out its not just skin tones that matter to others.

43 minutes ago, monkeypizzasonic said:

Cortex wasn't marketed for kids though, I feel like it was more marketed towards collectors who wanted to build doll kits. It probably had more smaller pieces than the vinyl dolls because of that, so the cortex as it was sold wouldn't have been a good choice for younger fans.

Was (vinyl/normal) Smartdoll..?

Prebuilt cortex existed too. And especially with this "new frame", wouldn't that have been a durable doll, more suited for kids..?

On 4/13/2021 at 10:54 AM, monkeypizzasonic said:

Cortex wasn't marketed for kids though, I feel like it was more marketed towards collectors who wanted to build doll kits.

My own take on it was that it was intended to create a competitive advantage over makers of vinyl dolls. 

—

“Privilege” can be a useful concept when used didactically, but remember when reading text in forum posts that we’re missing an enormous amount of information about the people we are talking to. This includes tone of voice and other clues to as to the intent behind a member’s words, and information about who the real person behind the keyboard is. We need to be cautious about making judgements and assumptions about members, and what they say, absent the data we have available in face to face interactions. 

I’d also make the general observation that over the years I’ve found that many of the people in this hobby have physical and / or psychological health issues, and for many members these dolls have become something more akin to a companion animal than a simple toy or collectible. Please keep in mind that we don’t know the situation of the person we are talking to unless they have chosen to share that information  

I’m not trying to fault anyone with what I am saying, I’m just pointing out that it’s easy to make assumptions and therefore we need to choose our words carefully. 

I agree that the discussion got a bit too heated. 

No one is questioning anyone's view about inclusivity, and I agree that other companies other that CJ should be considering other skin tones.

On the other hand, CJ is lacking a diversity of body types, which Volks and other independent BJD companies are starting to make. 

Other than this, the fact that Danny is adding ""blemishes"" such as vitiligo, artificial limbs and (soon to be added) stoma bags and other medical devices I think is an important step towards a fuller and more complete idea of inclusivity.

This said, please let's not forget that's a business, and despite their crusade against "pursuing moolah", inclusivity has such a broad spectrum of situations... and I don't think it is a wise business movement to be portraying too many of those, if it puts the company in a financially difficult position

.

I was having a good day until this. Not only do I feel as though I've been singled out by the person who quoted me, seeing my words used to complain about privilege really hurts, and makes me angry as a disabled person. I've had to use the block function for the first time ever, something I thought I would never have to do on here.

I'm gonna dip out again, I think.

12 minutes ago, Selenae said:

I was having a good day until this. Not only do I feel as though I've been singled out by the person who quoted me, seeing my words used to complain about privilege really hurts, and makes me angry as a disabled person. I've had to use the block function for the first time ever, something I thought I would never have to do on here.

I'm gonna dip out again, I think.

Not to barge in your private discussion with QT, I think they were actually agreeing with you... and their post was meaning that they are not part of a privileged category either. 

This is just my personal understanding of their post, and I think this may have been just a misunderstanding.

Hopefully this can get sorted out between the two of you, if you wish, but I suggest we stay in topic from now on. 

Peace

2 hours ago, Bellatrix said:

Not to barge in your private discussion with QT, I think they were actually agreeing with you... and their post was meaning that they are not part of a privileged category either. 

This is just my personal understanding of their post, and I think this may have been just a misunderstanding.

Hopefully this can get sorted out between the two of you, if you wish, but I suggest we stay in topic from now on. 

Peace

I wish not to go further than just stand with what I posted. Trying to explain just becomes over explaining and may be misconstrued further. 

Right now, it does stand to consider that I do believe despite the many criticisms with the company, SmD has the most diverse selection as it stands.

That said Danny reminds me of illustrators - as in a lot of ones that become popular online they start doing art commissions as a business. First they engage with their crowd of course asking questions because crowd engagements gets more views and inspiration. So often times inspiration takes a mind of its own. He makes a prototype and the way he presents it makes it seem like it would come to fruition as part of the doll line instead of just making a page just called "Frankenstein Chamber" or something and just simply let people know it's just experiments. If he feels it's viable he will push it to the doll line - but he has to research it first. I don't think people will mind AS MUCH. 

But like illustrators when it becomes an opportunity you can't help but jump into making it a business - but then that's where it's hard to get detached from taking it personally because these dolls are considered works of art regardless. So it's interfering with business because you also thrive on community feedback, as community is how you got engaged to do this stuff. 

So like some illustrators that take money for commissions online you start seeing some really bizarre and overly long explanation on their commissions. One person messes up or does something janky to that illustrator - it's now a big deal on their social media page. 

On the other hand for Japanese companies: I know Japan makers have an apologetic-be-polite at all times and constantly apologizing (dogeza/prostrating?) even if they won't rectify the result due to culture. ..well maybe unless you're Yoshi-P from FFXIV ;) (I kid) This can make for looking more professional

That's my observations about what is going on. Like I said long ago. I don't think Danny is some mustache twirling villain or I need to hide mah kids and hide mah wife. I also don't think this COVID isolation is helping him and in some cases ourselves. Since at times we get caught up in dogpiling on the guy as well. - In which I also profess to be bit guilty in that regard at times. 

 

 

 

 

QT : What you originally said to Selenae IS actually, condescending. Because you're insinuating that someone is privileged just because they aren't constantly purchasing the skin colour you seek; that's is so small minded of you. I don't think it's right to call someone 'privileged' just because what they seek in dolls isn't the same as yours. And btw, you can't just say you're done with the conversation when you were the first throw the torch. You don't burn someone's feet willy-nilly on the streets and shrug it off like you didn't do anything. You're allowed to have your own opinion- but people are also allowed to call you out when you say something weird on a public forum.

There are many reasons as to why companies don't produce skin colours like Danny Choo, and it's the same reason HE struggles with producing these skin colours on a regular basis (he's currently struggling with his blue gals and I'm pretty sure certain skin colours are seasonal). Why is darker skin either, produced less, or sold for more than a doll with lighter skin?

The dying process. Fun fact, did you know that lighter skin requires little to no dye? They dump a little dye into the vat, and it's ready for doll making fun time. The unfortunates of this however leads to, UNEVEN YELLOWING. Because with lighter skin, you can't easily see the inconsistencies in the vinyl mix until it tans/yellows.
However, when you are adding pigment into the mix to make darker skin, boy, you see it all. In order to achieve what we see with Smart Dolls, and VOLKs tanned skin, it requires ALOT of dye. Because if you don't have enough dye in the mix, and if you don't MIX it in enough, you'll get body parts that are either marbled, streaky, or patchy. None of which can be passed as humane. I mean- vitiligo is a real thing, but these results will look NOTHING like that. (And please don't say 'But Barbie can do it for cheap!'. The vinyl in Barbie looks so much cheaper, it's years thinner, and mass produced by MACHINES.)

 

UNTIL the process of dying hand casted dolls to ANY COLOUR is quicker, cheaper, and bares the same quality of tone each time they set, this is how the doll world will always be. It isn't about 'beauty standards'.

Again, you're allowed to feel how you feel about the doll world, but calling people 'privileged' for not choosing the company you like for ONE reason, is not cute, accurate, or right. If we're gonna use that logic, I can say YOU'RE privileged too because you have the luxury to make vapid claim against someone you don't even know.

Edited April 14, 2021 by freakie-oppa

If you chose to continue to misconstrue that is on you. Since I followed up with a later post saying it was not about "check your privilege" rsther more frustration at more the companies and variety and did not feel the post I quoted meant any harm. There is no point to this anymore than a game of one-upmanship and continued potshots when it's been agreed it's already off topic anyways, but if it gets frustration out then I suppose you can continue

 

Yes, the process is different and more difficult at the moment - but someone did decide to make them and at the same price. That is important to people and not shallow, representation is important to many for different reasons historical and otherwise. Which is why I did not disagree that is something to be appreciated and not just in skin tones as pointed out and it will be great to see more of that since dolls are essentially representations. Showing various disabilities as seen - while body shapes would be nice as well - though I know it also means costs in clothing in the product line later down the road as well due to different measurements. 

That said, again with Choo's way of discussing issues, it's mostly a weird space because the "blogger" is the businessman selling a product and not just opinion like a youtuber or other bloggers. 

The post showing the head sizes was very interesting, and did not know that they had changed in size, which in turn can and apparently has affected how wigs fit. It's even more interesting since prior posts before emphasizing how his goods are intended for Smart Dolls had him cancel an order when someone simply wanted to try purchasing a holster/harness. 

 

On marketing to kids - I feel like this is some weird offshoot of him noticing how many photos he took with kids present, got some inspiration and went with it and overstated the intent. 

It is that parents' money but hearing how a doll should be supervised has become an odd equivalent to supervising your child over a computer/tablet/phone or console. Which is fine since it's such a high end product but to the average person that has to sound funny/silly. "Sorry, supervising my kid because she's playing with her doll" 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Q_T

21 hours ago, Q_T said:

 

**Sighs in not privileged....

 

Just that dolls tend to be a representation and by 2021 you'd think there would be companies that get with the program if they sell internationally and realize that when you call things "Beautiful" and leave out a group. It really does hurt...

I mean it's not like I don't buy other kinds, because yes I do have a DD. But just saying comments like that tend to depress me because it's a HUGE reminder even if it's not meant to be hurtful...

QT : You start this comment off with ' **sighs in not privileged'  and continue on about lack of representation in 2021, and how certain comments hurt you. If you didn't meant to imply that someone was privileged because they can find dolls they like in other companies that aren't dark skinned, pray tell, what did you mean? I write bluntly but I'm always open ears. If that is entirely not what you meant, what did you actually mean to say?

Don't twist my words, representation is definitely important. You can keep, and voice your feelings about doll companies and their ethics when it comes to producing dolls, they're quite founded. I'm just stating how it is. Is it fair? Heck naw. Smart Doll is pulling it off, but he's mentioned that its costly, it takes more time to produce, and that's why he has to put a limit on how many he can make at a time. Does it suck for certain dolls to be an 'exclusive skin colour'? Of course. But it takes TLC, and care to make a doll that a human can look at, and feel represented by, and not everyone wants to risk losing the income. It's a business, afterall.

But not EVERYONE thinks of dolls as representations. Not EVERYONE only buys dolls in their image, even among people of colour. There is a huge amount of doll collectors that see dolls as a new art medium. And now, big playthings for hopeful children. Vinyl dolls started out as a prime foundation for anime companies to licence luxury products to fans of a series. So, how is seeing dolls in a different light, privilege? How is supporting a company with prices that fluctuate depending on the currency exchange, that happens to make dark skinned dolls, so uwu, not privileged? You can afford these luxury dolls too, yes? That can be called privilege.

 

But once again, no one is privileged just because they can separate themselves from their collectibles, and they certainly aren't privileged because choose to support a company for other reasons that differ from yours. Let's not toss around labels that aren't accurate.

Edited April 14, 2021 by freakie-oppa

*cough*

Quote

"Life is what you make it - but to make a fulfilling life, you need to go above and beyond."
The brain makes up only 2% of our body mass and yet uses up 20% of our energy. For this reason, our brains have developed to be as energy efficient as possible, and one way it does this is to make sure we take the easy path - humans are lazy by default.

As hunter-gatherers on the savanna many moons ago, humans needed to expend much energy and risk their lives to scavenge for resources and hunt for food. Now we live in a society that has been crafted to be so convenient that there is little need to expend energy at all - it takes a mere 10 millionth of a calorie to click a mouse button and have food/resources arrive on the doorstep - all without the risk of being eaten by a large bird of prey.

The society we live in strengthens our default programming to be lazy through the convenience of transport, food supplies, and the Internet. For this reason, many of us continue to live in the comfort zone until it's time to kick the bucket.

Two rules govern the world we live in - "high risk, high return" and "no pain, no gain." If you find yourself in the comfort zone, you need to ask whether it fulfills your needs - if it does, then that's fine - if not, then it's time to go above and beyond.

Soooo..."comfort zone" = "lazy", but "comfort zone" = "if it fulfills your needs that's fine", but to have a fulfilling life you need to stop being a "default lazy" human being?

Dude. After the year we've all just had, I think we need all the "being lazy and in our comfort zone"* we can get right now.

*unless your comfort zone is not wearing a mask and ignoring covid regulations, in which case yes you absolutely need to be out of your comfort zone.

 

I'm looking at dolls more like art objects, medium that i use instead of canvas. 

I'm working with resin, making some bits and pieces. And I charge more if piece demands more product to be used or work to be made. 

I am from Europe, from country without history of racism, so I might not understand it. But from my perspective, it doesn't matter if the skin tone is blue, black, brown, purple - I would charge more if it demands more of my time or more of the product. And I don't feel like it's not inclusive or racist. I just see it as a logical effect of business thinking. 

I'm marking price depending on time and supplies used. So it is obvious that if something demands more work or supplies I will charge more. In any other business field it's quite normal. If you buy doll hair - you pay more for complicated gradient dyed fibers than you are paying for a one color. Is it lack of inclusivity? 

 

I'm not really sure about the privilege part, as I just don't know if we can go on "who is more privileged", when we are on a forum where most people own 500$ dolls (i don't 😂). Isn't the fact that most users here can afford a doll like that - making us all privileged? 

forged_in_mess : Firstly, I agree with all of what you said. (The rest of the comment isn't directed at you, I genuinely do agree with you!)

 

To clear it up in simpler terms, I'm not trying to imply that it's wrong to voice something you think is right. It's true that certain skin tones are sparse in the vinyl doll community. But just because one company has enough income and the ballsiness to achieve something doesn't mean that other companies can. Society has come a long way, but the methods to make specific products haven't become easier. If a company sees too many risks, it isn't unwise to not take the plunge. It's not morally wrong, or unethical, or non-inclusive on purpose. It's business.

 

In a way, I too agree that, if we want to throw labels around- especially the word privilege, being able to buy luxury items without crippling yourself financially, is a form of privilege. 

However, I don't agree that having different tastes in/ideas of dolls, is privilege. I don't agree that not wanting to support a company for reasons outside of their product, is privilege. These are not reasons to insinuate that someone is privileged. And one shouldn't need to drag someone just to make a point.

 

I end my thoughts there, since this topic has been totally derailed, (but since I didn't start it, I have the privilege to dip if I think I have found a holy brick wall) I'll slink back into my little corner of shadows for now.

I'll just add my 2 cents here, since it seems so far the conversation around black skin tone options has been focused on the cost or technical difficulty in producing the dolls.  The larger factors though, as to why CJ is producing black skin tones and Volks is not, comes down to these reasons:

1)  CJ's primary market is English speaking westerners.  Volk's primary market is Japan, and other Asian countries.  Westerners still buy Volk's products, but unlike CJ's dolls, Volk's products are not designed with Westerners in mind.

2)  The average westerner will see a Volks doll like DDS Karin as "white," while in Japan it would be taken for granted that she is Japanese.  This has long been a factor in bringing anime to the west, where Japanese characters can be viewed as white by a foreign audience.  That certainly has a convenience factor of allowing Japanese products to be more easily marketed in other places, but has the unfortunate side effect of leaving people with darker skin tones feeling under represented.

3)  This is related to point #2, and Danny himself has mentioned this before too.  In general, western doll collectors, and especially younger girls playing with dolls, are attracted to dolls who looks like themselves.  They want a doll version of themselves.  In Japan and other parts of Asia, it is much more common for people to want dolls that represent official licensed characters.  Thus, Dollfie Dream is heavily focused around character dolls from anime, which again will be perceived as "white" in the west and as "Japanese" in Japan.  And CJ produces "original" dolls most aimed at westerners, and thus they sell darker skin tones to meet both their market and their purpose.

 

I do believe that it would be great for Volks and other to have more variety, but we all need to keep in mind that we are buying truly Japanese products when we buy from Volks.  Their aim is not to be successful in the West on the West's terms an norms.  The dolls are available for Westerns who are interested in buying Japanese products.  CJ, on the other hand, designs and caters directly to western needs and norms.

4 hours ago, monkeypizzasonic said:

*cough*

Soooo..."comfort zone" = "lazy", but "comfort zone" = "if it fulfills your needs that's fine", but to have a fulfilling life you need to stop being a "default lazy" human being?

Dude. After the year we've all just had, I think we need all the "being lazy and in our comfort zone"* we can get right now.

*unless your comfort zone is not wearing a mask and ignoring covid regulations, in which case yes you absolutely need to be out of your comfort zone.

 

For many people being essential was working on pins and needles. It's not like people could quit their jobs because they would be denied any pay in benefits. It was hard to hire and many were laid off. However, many were forced to pretty much work due to being "Essential". It misses the mark because yes you could order food at the click of a button - not because of convenience but as well as surviving. Quite a few people literally couldn't go to the store without getting severe risk of COVID. There's nothing wrong with technology leading the way to make this possible. 

There is something wrong though to say there was no risk. Those workers were under risk to have it delivered, whether to the person or transporting those goods from one area to the store. People still had to do their work in factories (where many got mass infections) to produce the food for society. Those people were still underpaid to do those to take that risk. Businesses went to lawmakers to expend energy for them to keep the lion's share of the earnings. 

I could go on about it being related to COVID, but without COVID - conveniences like food delivery and technology didn't make people "lazy" either.

It's simply that we expend much time elsewhere. We have all sorts of appliances that make things "Convenient"  yet we still spend a lot of time on chores. This is because we seek information and the more we learn about our environment, more things we have to do to keep ourselves healthy and occupied.

Days we used to hunt and gather, we may have just used a simple broom to clean the floor, IF THAT. Now, we should be disinfecting and watching out for things like black mold, allergens and other contaminants in our environment so we do more cleaning to keep ourselves safe. Though, depending on where you live even in first world countries, we still have many people living in ways considered disgusting - simply due to not having the finances and resources to survive. 

 

---- About the above on "Targeted market"

 

I would say for the most part the intended beginning target market of is true. It was originally intended for their local demographic. However, when you choose to go international - then you're saying you're also selling to and marketing towards those areas. Were Volks/Azone just staying to local demographic then fair enough - but they do have international markets. So at some point I do believe that becomes less and less of an excuse on an international field. They also wouldn't even attempt to sell internationally if there wasn't a valid venture for them, even if they're still small. Same thing with a lot of products - since the housing bubble in Japan did change the direction of their economy. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Q_T
expanding on counterpoint of Choo's post.

2 hours ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

The average westerner will see a Volks doll like DDS Karin as "white," while in Japan it would be taken for granted that she is Japanese.

I've always looked as Volks NS skin as being "anime skin tone," but anime skin tone is of course going to be based on norms for Japanese folks and not westerners. SwS strikes me as a representation of fair skin from video games and anime. Volks tan might be something of a nod to Japanese Gyaru Style.

Post WWII Japan is strongly tied to the US and Europe, so it doesn't really surprise me that "Europeans" get some representation within the Japanese doll market.  

 

2 hours ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

This is related to point #2, and Danny himself has mentioned this before too.  In general, western doll collectors, and especially younger girls playing with dolls, are attracted to dolls who looks like themselves. 

If I read @Q_T correctly, that was the original point that touched off the debate. For someone who isn't white or Asian, who is looking for a vinyl doll that is a representation of themself, dealing with CJ is the only option at the moment. If senpai bans you for speaking your mind, well then tough noogies you just can't haz nice things. (That's f***ed imo.)

Certainly if one is looking for licensed characters you have a lot of options, but if you are looking for "another yourself" as Volks puts it, then depending on who you are, your options become much more limited.

Since the lionshare of the CJ product line is made up of OCs, that makes his dolls a good fit for someone looking for a character they can give an identity to. While Volks does offer kit dolls that might be even better for this purpose, they only offer them in NS & SWS.

 

2 hours ago, Q_T said:

It was originally intended for their local demographic. However, when you choose to go international - then you're saying you're also selling to and marketing towards those areas. Were Volks/Azone just staying to local demographic then fair enough - but they do have international markets. So at some point I do believe that becomes less and less of an excuse on an international field.

I can see where you are coming from in principal, but in practice I'm not sure that's correct in this case. Post WWII Japan seeks to export its own culture as a means of preserving that culture. The 250 year isolation of Japan, the invasion of Manchuria, and the Pacific War were also driven by a desire for cultural preservation. For companies like Volks, and the businesses that license Volks to sell their characters, these dolls are probably about bringing Japanese cultural art forms to foreign markets. They aren't really in the business of producing foreign art and selling it to foreign markets. Disney Princess and Frozen are the exception not the norm, and so far the Princesses haven't been sold overseas.

Volks USA may exist because the children of the owners received an education in the US. The company president's son & daughter went to school in Oklahoma, and the son still lives in the US and works as the president of Volks USA. If that hadn't been the case, then we might not have a US branch. It would be nice if Volks USA started producing doll designs specifically for the US market, but I am not sure that's their intended business model.

52 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

It would be nice if Volks USA started producing doll designs specifically for the US market, but I am not sure that's their intended business model.

I agree with you.  It is not up to us to dictate to Volks what their business strategy should be.  It's just unfortunate that there are some western buyers looking for something that the Japanese company isn't trying to do.  As you say, they are exporting their culture.  They are not designing things for westerners.  Volks USA exists to help export Japanese dolls to the US.  Volks USA does not typically design its own dolls with foreign markets as its targets; they are selling the exact same Japanese products internationally, not different dolls entirely.  The reality is that dolls with naturally darker skin tones like what CJ sells would do poorly in the Japanese market, which Volks relies on for the majority of its sales. 

Though I must say, isn't it the case that Dollfie Icon is a line exclusive to the USA?  While that might not be what people in this tread are looking for particularly, it could signal the start of Volks changing its international sales strategy toward making new products specifically for western audiences, though time will have to tell.

edit: clarity

Edited April 14, 2021 by That_Dollfie_Dude

1 hour ago, BeyondTime said:

I've always looked as Volks NS skin as being "anime skin tone," but anime skin tone is of course going to be based on norms for Japanese folks and not westerners. SwS strikes me as a representation of fair skin from video games and anime. Volks tan might be something of a nod to Japanese Gyaru Style.

Post WWII Japan is strongly tied to the US and Europe, so it doesn't really surprise me that "Europeans" get some representation within the Japanese doll market.  

 

If I read @Q_T correctly, that was the original point that touched off the debate. For someone who isn't white or Asian, who is looking for a vinyl doll that is a representation of themself, dealing with CJ is the only option at the moment. If senpai bans you for speaking your mind, well then tough noogies you just can't haz nice things. (That's f***ed imo.)

Certainly if one is looking for licensed characters you have a lot of options, but if you are looking for "another yourself" as Volks puts it, then depending on who you are, your options become much more limited.

Since the lionshare of the CJ product line is made up of OCs, that makes his dolls a good fit for someone looking for a character they can give an identity to. While Volks does offer kit dolls that might be even better for this purpose, they only offer them in NS & SWS.

 

I can see where you are coming from in principal, but in practice I'm not sure that's correct in this case. Post WWII Japan seeks to export its own culture as a means of preserving that culture. The 250 year isolation of Japan, the invasion of Manchuria, and the Pacific War were also driven by a desire for cultural preservation. For companies like Volks, and the businesses that license Volks to sell their characters, these dolls are more about bringing Japanese cultural art forms foreign markets. They aren't really in the business of producing foreign art and selling it to foreign markets. Disney Princess and Frozen are the exception not the norm, and so far the Princesses haven't been sold overseas.

Volks USA may exist because the children of the owners received an education in the US. The company president's son & daughter went to school in Oklahoma, and the son still lives in the US and works as the president of Volks USA. If that hadn't been the case, then we might not have a US branch. It would be nice if Volks USA started producing doll designs specifically for the US market, but I am not sure that's their intended business model.

Yes, I'm not doubting Volks may have started off as the US/international specifically as an intended business. The point is though they are deciding to sell internationally because there's obviously a market. If there was no market or money they wouldn't be selling outside the Japan, period. 

Volks of course got more international footing because dolls aren't the only item being sold. I am saying there is a point it holds as less of an excuse, than just "happenstance"  

Azone with an international division I believe more or less the same. 

Repeating it's not that I don't doubt their original intended audience, but holding an international market (not just something recent - like less than 7 years ago), I think it holds less of an excuse (though again I do understand not their original demographic) since it's something like proclaiming ignorance when you're selling years internationally/globally. 

That said I get it, but frustrated by it since there are actually quite a few characters that are of color (not all anime characters are white) but you'll know it will get skipped in licensing because of skin tone as well. 

But looking for products get more limited due to various company choices, CJ, Volks and otherwise. If I wanted to create Nadia, Pirotess, Feb,  Elena, etc.. no real choice from the system either. 

 

As far as Disney, makes sense since there is usually stipulations for licensed characters and will vary regionally. 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Q_T

22 hours ago, monkeypizzasonic said:

Cortex wasn't marketed for kids though, I feel like it was more marketed towards collectors who wanted to build doll kits. It probably had more smaller pieces than the vinyl dolls because of that, so the cortex as it was sold wouldn't have been a good choice for younger fans.

Re: Cortex and its market,

Wasn't one of the major ideas behind cortex for it to be used with western-appealing DC licensed dolls like Batwoman and Super Girl? I seem to recall there was talk of how your average western comic paraphenalia collector wouldn't want vinyl that is somewhat delicate and stains easily, and cortex would solve that. (I could be completely misremembering this!)

3 hours ago, Q_T said:

That said I get it, but frustrated by it since there are actually quite a few characters that are of color (not all anime characters are white) 

Agreed 100%, and I feel like by not selling their body / head parts in their own version of cocoa, they are missing out on an untapped gold mine within the foreign market. I would love to see Volks make more diverse colors. 
 

3 hours ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

The reality is that dolls with naturally darker skin tones like what CJ sells would do poorly in the Japanese market, which Volks relies on for the majority of its sales. 

There may be a lot of truth to this, and again tan calls Gyaru to mind for me. Just based on manga and anime, Gyaru characters are pretty popular right now, although the anime versions are very toned down. Real Gyaru are pretty over the top in terms of style.

I haven’t looked at ethnicity breakdowns in Japan, so I can’t really comment on market share.  

1 hour ago, Q_T said:

The point is though they are deciding to sell internationally because there's obviously a market. If there was no market or money they wouldn't be selling outside the Japan, period. 

Volks's international sales have always been a bit of a peculiar thing, and if you look at how they are doing things now, instead of say five years ago, they have decreased their efforts on that front, going from a dedicated english page that was handled by someone who knew the language to a degree to a automatically machine translated version of their japanese site. -- (Peaches anyone?)

the international sales are probably also a bit of a source of headaches for the main branch too, and ever since after the kagamine ren thing, they seem to be doing the japanese thing of not really making a huge fuss about it, but just passive agressively tightening the terms of the preorders in form of pre-payment percentages.

So, yes.. the international sales are more padding on the bottom line, but I am getting the feeling that they might not mind going back to what it was to be in the hobby of some 15+ years ago when they didnt sell internationally period.

1 hour ago, Q_T said:

Azone with an international division I believe more or less the same. 

Its actually oddly enough called azone international (I guess because they have outfit production in vietnam these days), but apart from some on site japanese locations, they dont have their own web sales of anything. so its up to other outlets that stock their products that handle the international export.

The same goes for Angel Philia, they dont have a english web page or non-jdm sales themselves and have other outlets for the outside market.

The closest obitsu based that exports their own stuff you can get to is Parabox, but their a bit of a obitsu specialist seller... though they do have their own things too.

 

But still I agree with Beyondtime that just having international sales does not mean that they should be forced to sell certain types of dolls by default.

They are just bringing their own goods to an international market, its up to you as the buyer wether or not to accept these goods for your own use or not.

As a customer you can make requests on what they might bring to market, but it will still be their right to choose do they want to honor these requests or not.

It might be frustrating as a customer if they dont, but this is where you express your right as a customer to shop elsewhere for what you want for yourself.

---

And the occasional partial point of this thread has been to keep an option open with as little BS as possible.

Edited April 14, 2021 by finnleo

30 minutes ago, finnleo said:

the international sales are probably also a bit of a source of headaches for the main branch too

I’ve always worried that the issues they seem to have had with people declining to pay for lottery wins, and reversing of PayPal payments, are largely coming from the US market. On the one hand I think they probably have a base of honest customers here who obey the rules, but on the other hand I know what a bunch of entitled little pricks we Americans can be when dealing with businesses. Based on what I saw at the US Dolpa, Volks is committed to their US fans, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t sometimes a powerful migraine. 
 

30 minutes ago, finnleo said:

with as little BS as possible.

Therein lies the rub with a certain “senpai who shall not be named.”

 

30 minutes ago, finnleo said:

So, yes.. the international sales are more padding on the bottom line, but I am getting the feeling that they might not mind going back to what it was to be in the hobby of some 15+ years ago when they didnt sell internationally period.

They did add GL membership, and I’m not sure auto translate is a bad thing, even if the chosen engine is imperfect. 

4 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

I’ve always worried that the issues they seem to have had with people declining to pay for lottery wins, and reversing PayPal payments, are largely coming from the US market. On the one hand I think they probably have a base of honest customers here who obey the rules, but on the other hand I know what a bunch of entitled little pricks we Americans can be when dealing with businesses. Based on what I saw at the US Dolpa, Volks is committed to their US fans, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t sometimes a powerful migraine. 
 

Therein lies the rub with a certain “senpai who shall not be named.”

 

They did add GL membership, and I’m not sure auto translate is a bad thing, even if the chosen engine is imperfect. 

Quite honestly, chargebacks and reversals internationally are a rather big problem if the number is small. It hurts credit ratings of companies when they occur - causing higher fees or rejection. So in CJ's case, I actually can sympathize with blowing that issue "out of proportion" 

To give an example - Square Enix is a global company but for example their MMO has cash shop items. People who buy RMT (real money transactions - to get virtual currency in the game by purchasing from sites selling it illegally) will often become "victims" of credit card fraud because those sites get the person's card info and will buy cash shop items to sell on ebay and other sites. When the person realizes they have unauthorized transactions, they will of course initiate a chargeback. To which in turn hurts Square Enix's credit rating. 

Sadly those chargebacks could be a major factor for a lot of decisions being made now reflecting upon it. Not just for Volks but Smart Doll as well.

If this is the case though, being a bit more honest about it, than complaining about the complaining (ie someone mentioning or critiquing a wig) is something that would at least garner more understanding. 

 

Sorry for jumping in, but I was curious what CJ was short for? ;v; Been lurking this thread recently cause I thought a modded SmD head was cute but wanted to know about the company/Danny.

I believe Volks is slowly opening up to the idea of incorporating the foreign market - it just hasn't hit their Dollfie Dreams yet. Volks USA does offer semi-limited dolls in darker colors with no extra charge, like the SD16's with more diverse features or Dollfie Icon Terra. They also regularly have PS Tan as an option on their online FCS, although that's not a super-dark tan.