The Facebook debacle & other issues

There is more than enough weird bullsh*t here to for someone to make a deepdive. I think this whole shoe-child stuff would be right up Iilluminaughtii's wheelhouse.

27 minutes ago, IgelFullmetal said:

There is more than enough weird bullsh*t here to for someone to make a deepdive. I think this whole shoe-child stuff would be right up Iilluminaughtii's wheelhouse.

Iilluminaughtii isn’t that good of a person but this isn’t the place to talk about that and some danny fans may just mass report the video if it was made 

3 hours ago, baldylox said:

Done.

Is someone going to formally update the guidelines? I assume this has to be Averis since I don't see an edit option.

Sorry to harp on this, but if we don't have a formal published rule that justifies censoring someone else's speech, especially when we're being asked to do so by members who clearly state a disagreement with that speech in their report, we as moderation staff simply become guilty of using moderation powers to give a member a win in a political argument; that's not fair to our members.

I'm not trying to suggest we shouldn't have a rule against politics, political discussions can be divisive and disruptive and our forum isn't about debating political issues, but we need to be clear about it so we can point at those rules and remind folks they have to abide by them. I'm also going to point out that we have members with links to political movements in their signatures, and we're probably going to get start getting asked to moderate people's profiles by folks who don't like those movements.

I hate to be that person, but I'm gonna be because I spend way too long on youtube... but is it worth keeping political commentary as long as it relates to dolls? Because input from disabled people, BIPoC, etc. on how Danny handles things ranging from ableist gatekeeping to doll styling and tokenism are naturally political statements. ^^; I just wanna make sure it's okay to talk about that stuff.

(But yeah, it's not really the place for non-doll politics. I think I missed the posts, or some of them at least.)

Cheers 👍

I'd say that stuff is more "social issues" and not necessarily politics imo? Politics is laws and government, not "you shouldn't insult disabled people or give all the dark skinned girls tribal facepaint".

Am not mod tho. 

Edited July 25, 2021 by monkeypizzasonic

13 minutes ago, monkeypizzasonic said:

I'd say that stuff is more "social issues" and not necessarily politics imo? Politics is laws and government, not "you shouldn't insult disabled people or give all the dark skinned girls tribal facepaint".

Am not mod tho. 

Right, the problem with just saying ‘no politics’ is that people have extremely differing ideas of what constitutes ‘politics’. To me, ‘discussing politics’ would mean talking about political parties, politicians and voting, obviously nothing to do with this hobby. But to a lot of people, ‘no politics’ seems to be code for ‘don’t talk about stuff I don’t agree with’, and it seems to always turn out that ‘stuff’ is social issues. For some reason, the existence of minorities -at all- (or their right to exist) to some  is interpreted as inherently political. There are people who think COVID and having to wear a mask is political. If you apply this logic, what -isnt- political? This may be a cultural difference but it’s baffling to me. And from what I’ve seen in this thread, it was always related to the discussion at hand.

Seems like this is something that should be discussed with the moderation team and admin in private rather than applied arbitrarily, especially when it’s so vague.

Edited July 25, 2021 by Monty
I can good grammar

5 minutes ago, Monty said:

Seems like this is something that should be discussed with the moderation team and admin in private rather than applied arbitrarily, especially when it’s so vague.

Just for the record we are talking about it offline. I want to be clear that our chief concern is that political debates don’t damage the forum. This isn’t about one political viewpoint over another, but how to protect our hobby forum from being dragged into the ugliness that swirls around US politics.

3 hours ago, Mars said:

Iilluminaughtii isn’t that good of a person but this isn’t the place to talk about that and some danny fans may just mass report the video if it was made 

She doesn't seem like a bad person though, she seems like she generally means well.

Also, while your right that any large account taking on Culture Japan is probably going to get some pushback, as long as the video maker provides proof for their claims and doesn't say anything libelous I think they would win against any takedowns. This is Culture Japan, not Activision Blizzard.

15 hours ago, monkeypizzasonic said:

I'd say that stuff is more "social issues" and not necessarily politics imo? Politics is laws and government, not "you shouldn't insult disabled people or give all the dark skinned girls tribal facepaint".

Am not mod tho. 

I think it was referring specifically to some posts drawing parallels to specific US political events, which spun off into a few posts just talking about those events. I wouldn't say it was really political debate so much as a discussion of history, but I understand why the mods wouldn't want things going in that direction (and I also think comparing being banned from a doll store to far more serious historical persecution isn't a path we should go down).

7 hours ago, Tira said:

I also think comparing being banned from a doll store to far more serious historical persecution isn't a path we should go down

Honestly, the comparisons made some sense, but no, mayhem caused by a doll maker isn’t in the same league as the events in question. If anything the antics we’re seeing from Culture Japan are more along the lines of comical. 

With a few exceptions, like the comments on disability for example, our reactions to this stuff are more like:

 

My current feeling on Smart Doll O_O 

(Edit: if it needs explanation, I am a naturally quite anxious person. The Danhammer drives that anxiety up to Chidi from The Good Place levels XD)

Edited July 27, 2021 by Katsudon

On 7/25/2021 at 4:29 PM, monkeypizzasonic said:

Politics is laws and government, not "you shouldn't insult disabled people or give all the dark skinned girls tribal facepaint".

Am not mod tho.

I don't think that either of the things you have in quotes would be considered political. The former isn't a question of politics at all, and the latter is about doll face-ups. If a dollmaker does something racist, sexist, etc… imo it's not being political to talk about what they did, or to call it racist or sexist. Linking that something to the actions or inaction of government or political entities of various flavor is getting political. If you want to discuss the political aspects of it then use PM's.

The guidelines have been updated under the Content section, but this is something that is so vague by nature that it's going to be a question of judgement on the part of the mods. The best advice I can give is keep the topics and responses focused on dolls and the policies & practices of doll making companies; avoid bringing up legislation, political action movements, and named politicians on the open forums; when in doubt about whether or not you're about to violate a rule ask us about it in the Q&A section first, or just don't post it.

https://www.dolldreaming.com/guidelines/

I'll be as upfront as I can here, no one cared about the honor of a long dead politician being besmirched, it was a perceived slight to a living one that turned into an issue, so keep that in mind when posting.

Hey, at least he's owning it now, lol. If you buy more than one bundle of definitely-not-garbage-laying-around-the-office, you might get stuff you could maybe actually use!

Seems awfully elitist and manipulative (appealing to FOMO) to me but by now it's sadly what I expect from Smart Doll.

1 hour ago, LuluChan said:

Hey, at least he's owning it now, lol. If you buy more than one bundle of definitely-not-garbage-laying-around-the-office, you might get stuff you could maybe actually use!

Seems awfully elitist and manipulative (appealing to FOMO) to me but by now it's sadly what I expect from Smart Doll.

it surprisingly hasn't sold out. yet..   yesh, i'd like two whole yards of fabric an some 3d printed pieces an a small Baja Mountain dew plz 

You know, if I was a really big fan of/rabid loyal follower of Culture Japan/Smartdolls I would actually be kind of worried about the company right now. Usually when a company starts selling off every available product including master molds, leftover fabric, random prototype things en mass like this it means they're doing some sort of fire sale or, like...a "going out of business" sale.

Selling off extra bits like vinyl pieces and parts that didn't quite meet quality control or whatever, or leftover discontinued items is one thing. Selling every piecemeal bit of whatever they have laying around? That's a bit alarming.

I suppose I could be wrong and this is just Danny and Co.'s way of getting every bit of clutter out of their workshop so they have space for whatever is coming down the pipeline next. Given how weird and insular his policies are and how bizarrely small he keeps trying to make his customer base against all common sense, though, I'm seeing red flags.

Hell, if I worked there I would be very worried.

29 minutes ago, Lurks said:

I suppose I could be wrong and this is just Danny and Co.'s way of getting every bit of clutter out of their workshop so they have space for whatever is coming down the pipeline next.

But, as previously mentioned, why not do a give-away?? You might rope in some new customers that way, or at the very least engage the "fanbase". Yet his go-to is selling junk is for atrocious prices, while preaching about how money is not of importance.
They have given away items before - like fabric. They placed some boxes outside the store for people to pick what they wanted for free. (I do not think the issue is with managing a contest or give-away online. Listing the chaos-bundle and managing its sales surely comes with the same amount of work..?)

So, yeah, why charge now? Because they can? Or because money?

21 minutes ago, Yumeiro said:

But, as previously mentioned, why not do a give-away?? You might rope in some new customers that way, or at the very least engage the "fanbase". Yet his go-to is selling junk is for atrocious prices, while preaching about how money is not of importance.
They have given away items before - like fabric. They placed some boxes outside the store for people to pick what they wanted for free. (I do not think the issue is with managing a contest or give-away online. Listing the chaos-bundle and managing its sales surely comes with the same amount of work..?)

So, yeah, why charge now? Because they can? Or because money?

money, he has some extremely loyal customers lol 

1 hour ago, Lurks said:

 

You know, if I was a really big fan of/rabid loyal follower of Culture Japan/Smartdolls I would actually be kind of worried about the company right now.

 

I keep coming back to financial losses due to cortex’s development and subsequent failure, and who knows if he could even find a buyer for the company who would be willing to acquire the assets along with any debt. Plus his brand seems so associated with his antics that it might be untouchable at this point. Just speculation on my part though. 

I’ll make the counterpoint that he probably wouldn’t have expanded to another floor in his building if he was barely staying afloat. He also wouldn’t be as likely to hand out salable products as freebees. 

It’s quite possible that all he is doing is selling his scrap rather than having it dumped in a landfill. I think he has talked about going to a greener model recently. Of course, selling his junk doesn’t prevent the buyer from dumping it in their landfill because it’s useless. 😕

I wonder if Smart Doll is doing something similar to Supreme (validating of claims that people will buy anything with the supreme box logo on it. I am specifically thinking about the Supreme branded brick, hammer and etc.) 

I can't help but feel that there is some sort of weird sadomasochistic relationship between the brand and the consumer at this point.  I don't mean to discount the positive feelings and fun that people are genuinely having, but I can't really understand. More power to them I guess.

27 minutes ago, Subaru said:

some sort of weird sadomasochistic relationship between the brand and the consumer at this point.

An excellent way of summing up what we’ve been seeing.

Now I need to go scrub this image out of my brain. XD

3 hours ago, Subaru said:

I can't help but feel that there is some sort of weird sadomasochistic relationship between the brand and the consumer at this point.

"Oh yes, please step on my wallet and choke me with vinyl scraps."

Whyyy now this image is stuck in my head and mind forever.

2 hours ago, LuluChan said:

Oh yes, please step on my wallet and choke me with vinyl scraps.

 

 

2 hours ago, LuluChan said:

"Oh yes, please step on my wallet and choke me with vinyl scraps."

lmao  bruhhh    now where'd i put that bleach bottle?"

They would kissing shoe child feet, toes and shoes 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Mars