DDdy vs DDy III? (Or f3 now I guess?)

I'm about 7 or 8 years late asking this question lol but, over the years I've never seen or heard about a proper comparison... Anyone still have an original DDdy that they can tell me about the differences? Maybe even pics?? And/or I guess the new type, f3?? (I don't understand what the f3 is lmao.)

I have first release Sasara from 2009 so her body is the original DDdy. And to be honest it's in a pretty pathetic state. There's no stiffness in the torso joint so it just flops around freely. Her hip joints have no strength or stiffness whatsoever, lifting a leg has it just fall straight back down as soon as you let go. And she can't even sit up 90 degrees because the vinyl of her torso gets in the way of her thicc thighs lol so she always has to lean back when she sits.

Over the years I've thought about upgrading her to a DDdy III (or now an f3 apparently??) but I'm not sure whether the differences are worth the better part of $400? (I could sell this body to help offset the cost but would anyone even want to buy such a crappy old DDdy body? LOL) The only difference I know about for sure is the nicer elbows. Because all DD II/III comparisons I've seen are for the regular DD so I have no idea what was changed for the DDdy lol.

Or maybe I can tighten/mod this body somehow?? (I'm afraid to mess with it because I don't know what can come apart and I don't want to break it Q_Q)

1 hour ago, Luther said:

Or maybe I can tighten/mod this body somehow?? (I'm afraid to mess with it because I don't know what can come apart and I don't want to break it Q_Q)

That is one plus to the F3 body. It has adjustment screws that allow you to increase the tension as needed.

12 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

That is one plus to the F3 body. It has adjustment screws that allow you to increase the tension as needed.

How difficult/scary is it to take apart? I would be so scared of breaking it ( ˃̣̣̥᷄⌓˂̣̣̥᷅ )

Volks has some reference pages. Here is the f3 version, which is quite detailed. Here is the DDIII one, which is a lot less so.

DDII (which your DDdy is comparable to) and DDIII aren't hugely different; the frames look different but are very similar functionally. There are pictures of the frames for both in this thread:

Use a hair dryer to heat the vinyl pieces a bit to make them easier to remove without damage from the frame.

I think the only parts that are hard to put back on are the thighs because that joint is really tight, and the vinyl can get in the way. I don't have an f3, but I've read that's the hardest part on it as well.

I would agree that getting the thighs on the torso is the hardest part.

I think the big thing with regards to how hard it is to take F3 apart is you have to take stuff apart that you have probably never had to take apart before in order to adjust it. For example removing the feel from their frame, or removing the forearm from the fame. The feet took some strength.

In my opinion the DDdyIII body is worth the higher cost, because with it she not only has the better elbows, but she can also sit up straighter and there is more tension in the hip joints that make sitting and other poses easier.

I don't own an F3  DDdy so I can't speak to whether that upgrade is worth it.

Thank you soo much for all the info everyone! 🙏 Taking DDs apart is so scary, years ago I had a scare with my DD's leg coming off and not going back on, I thought I would never get her back together! ˚‧º·(˚˃̣̣̥᷄⌓˂̣̣̥᷅)‧º·˚ Is tightening joints required when owning an f3??

I'm on a no-buy at the moment so I wonder whether it's possible to take this body apart a bit and try and tighten it?? Maybe shave off some vinyl at the hip area? You say that the hip joints are the hardest to take apart though... 😭

4 hours ago, Jezrah said:

she can also sit up straighter and there is more tension in the hip joints that make sitting and other poses easier.

 

Omg really?? This is the #1 thing I've always wanted for her, to be able to sit up properly! Can DDdy III reach, or even surpass, 90 degrees?? What's different that allows it, did the vinyl sculpt change so the vinyl doesn't get in the way as much, or are the joints just that much stronger to be able to force it?

I have a DDdyIII body on hand, so I took a few quick pics to show you what it looks like in the sitting position.

 

24 minutes ago, Sord said:

I have a DDdyIII body on hand, so I took a few quick pics to show you what it looks like in the sitting position.

Oh heck that's what I've always wanted her to be able to do! T_T Thank you for taking those pics for me!

Are the thigh joints just so strong that they can force the vinyl to like, bend a bit? If that makes sense? Since at least on the original DDdy, the edge of the torso and the thigh get in each other's way. So I figure either the sculpt changed or the joints are just so strong that it can be forced...?

8 hours ago, Luther said:

You say that the hip joints are the hardest to take apart though... 😭

On the f3 they are the hardest to put back together. Taking them apart isn’t that hard. 

10 hours ago, Luther said:

Thank you soo much for all the info everyone! 🙏 Taking DDs apart is so scary, years ago I had a scare with my DD's leg coming off and not going back on, I thought I would never get her back together! ˚‧º·(˚˃̣̣̥᷄⌓˂̣̣̥᷅)‧º·˚ Is tightening joints required when owning an f3??

I'm on a no-buy at the moment so I wonder whether it's possible to take this body apart a bit and try and tighten it?? Maybe shave off some vinyl at the hip area? You say that the hip joints are the hardest to take apart though... 😭

Omg really?? This is the #1 thing I've always wanted for her, to be able to sit up properly! Can DDdy III reach, or even surpass, 90 degrees?? What's different that allows it, did the vinyl sculpt change so the vinyl doesn't get in the way as much, or are the joints just that much stronger to be able to force it?

Both the DDIII and the DDdyIII bodies changed the sculpt of the upper thigh to have a bit of a gap when standing so that they can sit up straighter. The gap is more noticeable in the DDIII, and some people don't like the look. For the DDdyIII, I feel that the gap isn't as extreme,  and it's definitely a good tradeoff. 

I think that unless your doll is nude or in swimwear that gap doesn't show anyway. Even really short skirts cover it.

5 hours ago, Jezrah said:

Both the DDIII and the DDdyIII bodies changed the sculpt of the upper thigh to have a bit of a gap when standing so that they can sit up straighter. The gap is more noticeable in the DDIII, and some people don't like the look. For the DDdyIII, I feel that the gap isn't as extreme,  and it's definitely a good tradeoff. 

Wow I never knew this! It must have been a very subtle changed! So the actual sculpt of the thigh changed?

8 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

On the f3 they are the hardest to put back together. Taking them apart isn’t that hard. 

Dang it... 😭 Are all versions of DD able to have the hip taken apart without damage or is it just f3?

1 hour ago, Luther said:

Dang it... 😭 Are all versions of DD able to have the hip taken apart without damage or is it just f3?

You can do it without damage, but it takes some fiddling to get it back in. With the DDIII you just needed to know the trick, and once you did it was easy to get the thighs on. With F3 I am sure there is a trick, but I have yet to figure it out. 

1 hour ago, Luther said:

So the actual sculpt of the thigh changed?

Yes. There are pictures here comparing the older and newer Yukino, who are DD rather than DDdy, but the same change happened:

The other thing that probably makes a difference in sitting is that slot that the pin for the thighs has so it can move up and down.

I never noticed that DDS does not have those same notches on the thighs.

I'm having trouble (read: I'm lazy) sorting through exactly what's said here, but here's my 2¢,

• Definitely get a DDdy f3 body! You'll love it! It's a huge upgrade!
• The f3 body is by far the easiest one to maintain. Volks discouraged people from taking apart the old bodies, with the new ones they're meant to be user serviceable.
• About the thighs on f3, if you get unlucky and you need to tighten joint #12, it's hard because you have to pull it out of the vinyl thigh. I had to do this on an MDD, and those body parts are really small so trying to yank the joint out through the opening in the vinyl was really difficult. Hopefully you don't have to do that.

The old bodies were made to have really tight joints because they only got looser as time goes on. When you get an f3 body all the joints are a bit looser than before so that you can move parts smoothly. The joints also have a different design (they're actually ball joints...) which also makes them much smoother. Each ball's stiffness can be tightened by a screw, and unfortunately I don't think Volks has figured out how to do exact quality control here. It's not like a car where each screw has a specified torque limit, so you might get some parts that are too loose. In my case, my third f3 body had a loose lower-waist and hip/thigh joints.

On 9/25/2019 at 6:34 PM, cfx said:

The other thing that probably makes a difference in sitting is that slot that the pin for the thighs has so it can move up and down.

I never noticed that DDS does not have those same notches on the thighs.

What do you mean by slot for pin for thighs...? What does that mean? xD If the DDS doesn't have it, does that make it less poseable than DDIII...?

On 9/25/2019 at 9:49 PM, foo said:

I'm having trouble (read: I'm lazy) sorting through exactly what's said here, but here's my 2¢,

• Definitely get a DDdy f3 body! You'll love it! It's a huge upgrade!
• The f3 body is by far the easiest one to maintain. Volks discouraged people from taking apart the old bodies, with the new ones they're meant to be user serviceable.
• About the thighs on f3, if you get unlucky and you need to tighten joint #12, it's hard because you have to pull it out of the vinyl thigh. I had to do this on an MDD, and those body parts are really small so trying to yank the joint out through the opening in the vinyl was really difficult. Hopefully you don't have to do that.

The old bodies were made to have really tight joints because they only got looser as time goes on. When you get an f3 body all the joints are a bit looser than before so that you can move parts smoothly. The joints also have a different design (they're actually ball joints...) which also makes them much smoother. Each ball's stiffness can be tightened by a screw, and unfortunately I don't think Volks has figured out how to do exact quality control here. It's not like a car where each screw has a specified torque limit, so you might get some parts that are too loose. In my case, my third f3 body had a loose lower-waist and hip/thigh joints.

Thank you for this thorough response!! I may just sell my original DDdy body for however much I can get back and invest in an f3 when my no-buy is over!! That's very cool that they're designed to be user-tightened! My 10 year old DDdy is proof of how joints loosen and become useless. xD; I thought the pre-f3 bodies already had ball joints though, what do you mean by f3 being the first?

11 minutes ago, Luther said:

What do you mean by slot for pin for thighs...? What does that mean? xD If the DDS doesn't have it, does that make it less poseable than DDIII...?

I'll have to borrow one of Billy's pics from the thread I linked:

On 7/14/2012 at 5:00 PM, baldylox said:

DSC_6761 by balldylox, on Flickr

 

See that slot in the lower torso frame that the thigh pin can slide up and down in? When the doll is standing, that pin is near the top of the slot. When sitting, it can move down which gives more clearance between the thigh vinyl and the torso vinyl. My statement above was referring to two different things; DDS has this same pin and slot configuration; what it doesn't have is those big notches on the thigh vinyl that DDIII has. It could be it doesn't need them since the lower torso is also different.

5 hours ago, cfx said:

See that slot in the lower torso frame that the thigh pin can slide up and down in? When the doll is standing, that pin is near the top of the slot. When sitting, it can move down which gives more clearance between the thigh vinyl and the torso vinyl. My statement above was referring to two different things; DDS has this same pin and slot configuration; what it doesn't have is those big notches on the thigh vinyl that DDIII has. It could be it doesn't need them since the lower torso is also different.

Thank you, that makes perfect sense now!

6 hours ago, Luther said:

I thought the pre-f3 bodies already had ball joints though, what do you mean by f3 being the first?

The joints in the old bodies are like the pin & slot that cfx mentioned. For example, this is the upper torso part for the DD3 family of bodies,

All the joints (except for the very top neck part) are swivel joints. With the f3 bodies most joints are balls instead of swivels, each ball having their own screw to tighten the clamp around them. This is from the DDP upper torso,

Every ball you see there in the frame has a much larger range of movement than the old swivel joints. The upper torso is actually able to spin around horizontally 180° on the large ball joint that's partially covered by the vinyl there (I showed that in a comparison of the DDS-f3/DD3 bodies).

Another example, this is what it's like where you attach the arms now (MDD body),

In the first picture I posted at the top showing the old upper body, the rod from the arm parts slots directly into the holes in the shoulder part. For the f3 bodies, the rods from the arm plug into this little ball's socket, and it's the ball that moves around.

1 hour ago, foo said:

In the first picture I posted at the top showing the old upper body, the rod from the arm parts slots directly into the holes in the shoulder part. For the f3 bodies, the rods from the arm plug into this little ball's socket, and it's the ball that moves around.

Shoulders are one of the biggest improvements imo.  

On 9/27/2019 at 7:01 PM, foo said:

Another example, this is what it's like where you attach the arms now (MDD body),

Every time I see this picture it scares me. I'm not used to some aspects of f3, and when I look at that I see the slit that allows for adjustment and think your frame has cracked then it hits me, oh, yeah, duh.

Looking at the USA and Japan Volks webstores I was reminded of another point to make here that I don't think has already been brought up.

By this point in time, f3 is a much safer choice than the "III" series bodies, because all of the replacement parts for the older bodies are discontinued. Volks still has most parts in stock, but not everything (arms in particular seem to be rare), and while pages are still up for the most part, there is no guarantee some of those parts will ever be restocked. In Volks' physical stores in Japan, only Dollpoint still carries any parts, and that's been the case for nearly a year now.

The stuff is pretty durable; most stains can be removed and the frame and joints are pretty tough. Still, things happen and joints can crack, so it's nice to be able to buy replacement parts.

If you read some previous posts of mine, I've griped about some little aesthetic changes in the new bodies, and also the price increase, but in general now I wouldn't recommend others to buy the older bodies without really thinking about the pros and cons.

On 10/6/2019 at 3:19 AM, cfx said:

 

The stuff is pretty durable; most stains can be removed and the frame and joints are pretty tough. Still, things happen and joints can crack, so it's nice to be able to buy replacement parts.

 

Talking about DDIII cracks, is there a way to repair them or, to prevent crack growing? I ask because my dollfie's right elbow joint has a tiny crack.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Pit

4 hours ago, Pit said:

Talking about DDIII cracks, is there a way to repair them or, to prevent crack growing? I ask because my dollfie's right elbow joint has a tiny crack.

Coolcats sells parts that fix shoulder and hip cracks. If the elbow part is the part that is inside the arm you might try heat shrink tubing.

Edited November 2, 2019 by BeyondTime