"toxic Smart Doll community"?

19 minutes ago, ladyroselie said:

Smartdolls feel fun and new to me right now, but because of the two sides to the community I'm definitely bring cautious about it.

I would always say buy the dolls you want and don’t let our cynicism ruin your enjoyment of something. 

Due to the creator's continued actions, I am still struggling. I am apalled by how he treats his customers, and some of the rumored favoritism... to the encourgement he gives to his fanbase towards some of their more toxic behavior. I love the dolls, but I have thought about shifting to DD, but, my only doll is a cortex, with the issues that come with a cortex. I am just grateful, for all the bad eggs I have seen, I have seen a few good ones two... ones who'll go out of their way to encourage those who want to mod or customize their dolls to be able to love them more...

1 hour ago, ladyroselie said:

I can definitely understand being worn out with the drama! Smartdolls feel fun and new to me right now, but because of the two sides to the community I'm definitely bring cautious about it. I don't want to get too pulled into anything if I can avoid it. 

The virtue signaling on IG seems to work for some I guess. I just find it pretty transparent and that's why I sought out discussion of the brand in more then one place. 

I know I've posted a lot of cynical stuff, but I really love the dolls still! In some ways that makes the bad stuff more painful, because there's so much potential. But it's okay! Just keep enjoying dolls! I mean, I came here originally to ask if Smart Dolls were really as fragile as Danny makes them seem, because his own posts about how poorly made his dolls are (at the time) were very off-putting. I think he's stopped writing about that so much, possibly because it made the people who work for him look bad, as well as shifting to making the dolls seem safe for kids. But I was genuinely worried that I'd spend a lot more than I usually do on a doll, only for her to fall apart in my hands!

But my doll is fine. I'm careful with the wrists and elbows because those joints are a bit fragile, but she's fine. I'm so glad I bought her, despite everything. ❤️ 

(My declaration of love for my SmD number I-dunno-how-many)

Edited April 28, 2021 by Katsudon

2 hours ago, BeyondTime said:

I would always say buy the dolls you want and don’t let our cynicism ruin your enjoyment of something. 

 

1 hour ago, Katsudon said:

I know I've posted a lot of cynical stuff, but I really love the dolls still! In some ways that makes the bad stuff more painful, because there's so much potential. But it's okay! Just keep enjoying dolls! 

I agree with you both here for sure! I think it's really important for everyone to come to their own conclusions. I also believe that doing the research on a new hobby, or facet of a hobby, is super important. After coming from a pretty toxic hobby in fantasy pins, I want to be aware of what's going on with my new obsession of SMDs. 

The nice thing is that I know there'll be a limit for me. I like having several of each type of doll I have, but they don't necessarily out number each other (except maybe Lil Fairies 🥺) so at some point I'll get all the Smartdolls I want and spend more time on something new. Like Dollfie Icon 😍

I honestly think DC needs to make those smaller scale SMDs a reality if he wants to be sustainable. It's so easy to collect a whole bunch of smaller dolls and justify if they are similar. Not as easy with the big gals! (Honestly I'd also prefer a MDD size too). 

Edited April 28, 2021 by ladyroselie
Spelling

@ladyroselie Oh yeah, the small Smart Dolls sound like they could be amazing! Even though they've only been teased, I would love to see them become a reality. Especially if they have a more mix-and-match thing like obitsu. Even if they don't, I bet people will do some interesting things with them!

It's definitely good to do research. It'll help you avoid the pitfalls. 😄 And that means an easier time buying a doll and enjoying owning her.

I kinda want a MDD, but I think I'm gonna need the help of people here, because Volks' site is a bit confusing! Do I go for a premade doll, or put together my own from pieces? What to do! It's at the end of my wishlist though, so at least a year before I need advice.

10 minutes ago, Katsudon said:

@ladyroselie Oh yeah, the small Smart Dolls sound like they could be amazing! Even though they've only been teased, I would love to see them become a reality. Especially if they have a more mix-and-match thing like obitsu. Even if they don't, I bet people will do some interesting things with them!

It's definitely good to do research. It'll help you avoid the pitfalls. 😄 And that means an easier time buying a doll and enjoying owning her.

I kinda want a MDD, but I think I'm gonna need the help of people here, because Volks' site is a bit confusing! Do I go for a premade doll, or put together my own from pieces? What to do! It's at the end of my wishlist though, so at least a year before I need advice.

I think having the smaller version could not only help keep things fresh and keep customers coming back, but it might help with the toxicity issue. If they sell more small dolls maybe they wouldn't have time to interview every new customer 🤷🏼‍♀️

(I want a MDD too, but I just haven't had time to do the research on them yet 😅)

5 hours ago, ladyroselie said:

I think having the smaller version could not only help keep things fresh and keep customers coming back

<sarcasm>

But.. But.. this would put too much strain on  the shipping staff.

</sarcasm>

 

In what little i've learned from following this project, it seems that the main goal of keeping customers has been to be trying to find those niché markets that nobody else makes anything for... Im sort of starting to believe that ditching the Milk tone also had inspiration in this sense, ("Oh we dont do what others do, we do what we do...").

Going smaller would in my case subject the company to more competition, the 1/12, 1/6 scale grid is far more competitive in terms of what is out there both in japanese and american markets.

But thats just opinion.

I really don't think he would make the pocket doll at this point. He teased it for so long, but since they are so overworked /s I doubt it will ever happen.

I love the MDD's! @Katsudon I think the only doll that is already put together is Liliru if you are buying on the USA site. I am not sure what is available on the Japanese site though. I had Liliru and I adored her! You can buy just the body and a head of your choice, I did that as well. Some of the heads may be a bit big for the MDD body, I didn't mind it when I made mine though 😄 You definitely have options there!

11 hours ago, Katsudon said:

I kinda want a MDD, but I think I'm gonna need the help of people here, because Volks' site is a bit confusing! Do I go for a premade doll, or put together my own from pieces? What to do! It's at the end of my wishlist though, so at least a year before I need advice.

First you save up $2000 and try to win an auction for a customized MDD head.  This auction includes the wig / outfit / accessories, but not the body.

Then you buy the body directly from Volks.

2 minutes ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

First you save up $2000 and try to win an auction for a customized MDD head.  This auction includes the wig / outfit / accessories, but not the body.

Then you buy the body directly from Volks.

Although heads can go crazy high like that you can certainly get some VERY cute head for much less!  I have picked up a few awesome modded heads for only $2-300 range on YJA if you stalk it properly 😃

Also yes I am the person who posted about being banned on FB lol.  Danny seems to openly encourage creators to make things for his dolls, he has released patterns free, STIL files for free, said people can sell them and mod them.  So I really doubt the hands would be the issue, also as said above this is the man who made XXXL crazy size busts (that are sadly discontinued). IMO its probably some joking prod at the ridiculous attitude of danny and the SMD brand which I tend to drop here and there in comments sometimes.  Either way its not a huge issue for me, I was hoping more for the post to just bring attention to these business practices to the newbies or the uninformed, so they know how their beloved choo is really not that nice a guy as he seems.

Frankly I love DD way more than SMD and I haven't really had an interest in any of the recent same faced dolls that have been released. The blue doll purchase attempt was really and impulse buy and I don't anticipate wanting any more SMD in the future. I do enjoy making custom parts and mods so probably more of those will be coming regardless =p

Edited April 29, 2021 by Drizz

3 hours ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

First you save up $2000 and try to win an auction for a customized MDD head.  This auction includes the wig / outfit / accessories, but not the body.

Then you buy the body directly from Volks.

Tsk 😄 I come from resin bjds! I'm not afraid to paint a head. Not much. Only a little bit. 😆

4 hours ago, CrazyDollPerson said:

I love the MDD's! @Katsudon I think the only doll that is already put together is Liliru if you are buying on the USA site. I am not sure what is available on the Japanese site though. I had Liliru and I adored her! You can buy just the body and a head of your choice, I did that as well. Some of the heads may be a bit big for the MDD body, I didn't mind it when I made mine though 😄 You definitely have options there!

Ah yeah, I browsed through the Japanese site and there was only Liliru in their standard range*. I looked through the parts and bits too, and saw a head I really liked the look of though. Can't remember its number off the top of my head, but if it's still around when I've saved up for a MDD, I'll come and check whether it'd fit a MDD body. 😍 Help me, dolldreaming forum, you're my only hope! Haha

*They had a limited character from something I don't recognise, but I don't really need/want a fullset. Unless it's 9S. And he's not a MDD and also so far beyond my means. But so pretty...! 😭

Edited April 29, 2021 by Katsudon
I want 9S ;_;

16 hours ago, Katsudon said:

I kinda want a MDD, but I think I'm gonna need the help of people here, because Volks' site is a bit confusing! Do I go for a premade doll, or put together my own from pieces? What to do! It's at the end of my wishlist though, so at least a year before I need advice.

While I’m not personally plugged into the MDD scene, you will find no shortage of help here. 

 

4 hours ago, That_Dollfie_Dude said:

First you save up $2000 and try to win an auction for a customized MDD head.  This auction includes the wig / outfit / accessories, but not the body.

 

1 hour ago, Katsudon said:

Tsk 😄 I come from resin bjds! I'm not afraid to paint a head. Not much. Only a little bit.

While there are some Japanese face-up artists who sell heads that command high prices in very competitive auctions, you can find face up artists in the US & Europe who do great work for $100 - $200, and yes you can also paint your own. Volks can sell you everything you need, but you can certainly use paints from other companies too. The hard part of customizing IMO is really getting the perfect wig and eyes for what you want to create. I have 5 custom concepts in my head that go nowhere because I need a custom wig for all of them.

There are also a few legit artists like ShiniesWorkshop on Etsy, and Mandrake has a decent selection of secondhand painted heads as well, if you want sites you don't need a proxy for. Plus the marketplace here and on DoA. 

So many answers 😍

This situation with instagram artists made me really not wanting to dive into smart doll. For example I am now pretty sure, that if I would do a body blushing, paint bazongas, and dress my doll in more mature, maybe bdsm themed clothing - I would probably get harrased, as it's so far off from a child friendly image. 

Story about boobs Not for photos made me  really uncomfortable. I kind of feel like providing reasons for my purchase is already a bit of invasion of privacy. 

( in resin bjd - I would get that a super limited, artist dolls are controlled, because of the real fear of being recasted. So it is normal to sell to customers with history. But in case of widely available doll that it's made like in a factory? Why? Scalping prices won't be an issue with normal dolls available in a week. It just feels elitist, like I need to have a reason good enough to allow me to spend half of my monthly salary...?) 

It makes me really conflicted, because objectively I prefer visuals of smart doll, and for photography they are so much better than resin dolls i saw so far. But I just don't want to be exposed for the toxic, entitled child community. 

 

Its such a shame for the product, that it's identified with a cult like atmosphere around it. I would love to get into smart doll without getting into smart doll community... 

Well, I hope Dolldemort never opens the TcDoll site or he will have a heart attack.

35 minutes ago, Testament said:

Well, I hope Dolldemort never opens the TcDoll site or he will have a heart attack.

while the TcDoll twitter feed banner is all smurts...

I think it was already "a win" back in the day when TcDoll started to feature their stuff on SmD's in the first place.

Might have misinterpreted that initially ...

all things considered, including the talk of peculiar in house custom body parts, I doubt any cardiac arrests will ensue because of naughty clothing ... though probably no official mention about it or references to it.

Edited April 30, 2021 by finnleo

4 hours ago, forged_in_mess said:

It makes me really conflicted, because objectively I prefer visuals of smart doll, and for photography they are so much better than resin dolls i saw so far.

CJ does a lot better with marketing to westerners than Volks does.  The website (aside from Danny's rants and large blocks of text) is clean, and they have very nice pictures.  And many people really do prefer Smart Dolls.  But for what it's worth, I will say that I was someone who also liked the look of Smartdolls more just from the online photos.  But now that I actually own both, I have the opposite opinion. 

What I really liked in the look of SmD most is that the body was sectioned under the bust and not across the waist.  I thought that was a much cleaner look, and I still think so.  But that clean look is offset somewhat by the plug in SmD's back, which is always there even when you don't need it.  Most importantly though, there are a lot of nice things about DD that you simply won't understand from photos.  SmD is overly stiff and hard to pose, where DD movement is much smoother, and most importantly, adjustable.  DD vinyl skin is a softer and feels a lot nicer.  That's something that you can't really see in photos.  I will say that I do find DD a bit overly thin, which I think is because Volks are going for an "anime look."  At the same time, what you often won't notice right away is that SmD's legs are overly long, to the point where it's actually too disproportionate (in my view). 

It's too bad there's no doll meetups happening near you where you could see and handle them both yourself.  I think Danny tries to present SmD as an improved DD but it really isn't.  Smartdoll seems to heavily value "the look," where Dollfie has placed more emphasis on the overall experience of owning and handling the doll (and Volks is never going to tell you that any issue you have with the doll is your fault.)

On 4/27/2021 at 4:54 PM, Selenae said:

@DreamDollDesign The single major difference in this particular area is that Volks doesn't condemn modding and customization - they celebrate it. Hell, they even periodically hold contests where owners can design face-ups of their own even with modding, and the three favorites get rewards.

And while I can't speak for Danny himself, his community flies into rages over custom faceups, so I'm willing to bet they would probably rage over any mods, too.

This is something I've thought for a long time.  I've wondered if it was just that I was a casual observer on the outside looking in or some real phenomenon.  Or if it was just my own inability to sometimes recognize a custom as a custom.

But it seems like with Smart Doll owners, it's just the same models over and over without even wig variation.  I've seen far more variety with DDs.  I wasn't sure if that was just because I wasn't particularly interested in SmDs and didn't hunt them down, or whether it was due to a general lack of options that worked with a SmD or what.  And I had seen some inklings of SmD owners being hostile to the idea of the dolls being anything other than the characters that DC had decreed they were.

I mean, if anyone here remembers me, you know I'm not exactly a huge customizer.  My idea of "customizing" is changing out the eyes and the wig, maybe a boob tweak, and then giving the doll a name I like.  But my impression was that even that kind of thing was a no-no in the SmD community.  It actually reminded me of how a console RPG forum I joined threw a fit and banned me because I said that I would rename my characters when the game gave me the option.

I had been interested in a SmD at one point.  I think the one I was interested in was the Journey model?  But reading about DC and some of the things he had written on his own store site convinced me that I didn't want to buy from someone like that.

 

It's odd because the parts of the Smart Doll community that I've found seem quite keen on customs - at least I haven't seen anyone cuss anyone out - and most people have their own names for their dolls. 😕 Maybe I'm just lucky, or not online enough. It's sad that there are pockets of people against that. Especially because between the anime style, and skintone variety, Smart Dolls are great as bases for OC customisation.

So there really is a stigma against SMD customization? I thought it was weird they all looked the same in researching them. Even if they are well done customs is there still backlash? 
 

Coming from DD and resins first it blows my mind that DC and his fans lash out at people for changing their dolls.

@Keijogirl Yes, there is blacklash even for incredibly well-done faceups. It's gotten so bad that several talented artists have quit doing SmD customs altogether. A couple even permanently left the community.

 

Edited April 30, 2021 by Selenae

11 hours ago, forged_in_mess said:

It makes me really conflicted, because objectively I prefer visuals of smart doll, and for photography they are so much better than resin dolls i saw so far. But I just don't want to be exposed for the toxic, entitled child community. 

 

I used to feel the same and even said at one point in the 'Facebook Debacle' the dilemma of wishing I liked the look of DDs better. I didn't like any of their faces, because they didn't have the same pretty coloring to me at the time as Smart Dolls. Then I found one I finally fell in love with, a preowned Sailor Moon. I first started to change my tune upon holding her and testing her weight and joints. I didn't feel like I needed to be able to bench press 100lbs to be able to move her joints, and her vinyl was so smooth. I still preferred the Smart Dolls a bit more though until I started photographing them together. I noticed how thin the arms and legs seemed in proportion to the rest of the body not to mention the giraffe legs (which I nicknamed my first SmD). The thing that finally did it for me was photographing them from the side. My DD had way more depth and scale to her face that shined in different light and shadows, and my two SmD were...flat. Incredibly so. Aside from an original Chitose and Twilight sculpt, I much prefer DDs. There are a few DDs that have that same face syndrome, but most of them are incredibly different sculpts. Among the few slightly different sculpts, SmD all look the same to me now. 

For me they all look the same, but I don't have issue with that. I would want to customize and own not more than maybe three dolls this size max, so it wouldn't bother me that they are similar sculpts. 

I like smart doll body more. Exactly because of the super long legs, and looking more like anime character coming to life (but I like angelphilia aesthetic), when even dolls like sailor moon - they look for me like oversized barbie. Like one of those barbie fake dolls, that supposed to be senshi, and thy had those big gloves etc. I just feel like it have this production, factory feel of cheap barbie dolls, even  wig looks very cheap to me, color being so saturated. And as a huge sailor moon fan, I just see long legs of smart doll fit better.and to be honest, I don't like post apocalyptic vibes, but from the pictures clothing looked a bit less cheap looking  to me too on smart doll , but that might be purely a picture fault. 

 

With faces, I wont know about sculpts, but I love dd custom faces, and I would be okay with that, it's visuals of the body that talks to me. 

2 hours ago, Deyja said:

I didn't feel like I needed to be able to bench press 100lbs to be able to move her joints, and her vinyl was so smooth.

The new f3 body has some advantages there too. You can adjust the tension and parts rotate a lot more smoothly. You do need some strength for some of the tension adjustments though. Pulling parts out of the vinyl even part way can be a challenge. 
 

1 hour ago, forged_in_mess said:

 

For me they all look the same, but I don't have issue with that. I would want to customize and own not more than maybe three dolls this size max, so it wouldn't bother me that they are similar sculpts.

 

These ease of getting Volks blank heads makes mods to the sculpt something you can consider too. You could also hypothetically get multiple of the same head, and have a different expression given to each head with a face up. You have one character, but multiple emotions.