"toxic Smart Doll community"?

3 hours ago, Vickie386 said:

I only "discovered" Smart Dolls about 6 months ago and this is just NUTS.  It's making me rethink buying anymore merch directly from SD site, but I REALLY want a blue girl.  People have told me I can find one fairly easily on the second-hand market, but I don't see much on Instagram and my requests to join a couple of FB groups are pending.  Ugh.  

Which brings me to this:

DC tweeted over a week ago now that 3 blue girls were going to "go online".  Nothing yet.  But, I have been checking Fabric Friends and Dolls' site the past few days and I swear the two blue girls listed there yesterday that are already sold out (Anomaly Zombie and Kabuki) were not there the other day.

Maybe I'm wrong and just didn't notice because I was focused on possibly putting Lelouch on layaway (I waited too long and he was gone. Probably a good thing though.  Good for my budget).

Anyway, if the blue girls were new the site was that maybe his way of putting some blue girls up for sale?  Having FF&D (and maybe the new store in Germany) sell them, like Lelouch?

I'm confused.

His tweets usually mean they went online within minutes of that tweet (unless he says the next day) and were sold out. I've seen some blue girls sit on the site for 30 mins or so, but yes you have to have caught them in time, sometimes they sell out in less than a minute too. Basically the moment you see a LIVE tweet about the blue girl going live, camp at his site and refresh a lot. If its not a live tweet, its probably gone. Same for the chaos drops and such. 

As a new doll fan and after buying my very first Smart Doll, I cant see anything toxic yet. 

It is just unique how I get treated as a customer. I get a personal message, get asked and everything including the shipping seems to have high standards.

What I see, is the Smart Doll shop is kinda limited and exclusive. Danny Choo seems not to sell more then 2 dolls per order, there is no extra wig, also a lot of stuff is out of stock - like the blue dolls. Also there are rarely any Smart Dolls on ebay and such. It seems like people treat their dolls like family and never sell them.

Comparing to that the VOLKS store seems bigger with like 16 pages of wigs only. And there are always special dolls (inspired from anime and games) around. You get the dolls easier on reseller stores like ebay. They also sell the heads to make people mod and resell them. 

I dunno how to put it, but I thought the doll stores are more..... popular. At first I thought VOLKS was the US version of Smart Doll until I realized that those high quality dolls are kinda exclusive to japan.

Finally allow me the thought, that after buying a Smart Doll (or dollfie dream), you might not like ANY other dolls anymore. I wouldnt call it toxic, but maybe kinda an elite and even arrogant view. It must be kinda elite if we buy dolls für 600 dollar and more.

On 11/28/2021 at 10:39 AM, Starlight said:

What I see, is the Smart Doll shop is kinda limited and exclusive.

Yeah, a lot of the thoughts you've shared I agree with, but this one especially stood out to me. Essay to follow, skip this post now if that's boring! 😂

Despite their popularity, to the point where I consider them one of "The Big Three" 1/3 vinyl doll companies (the other two being Volks and Obitsu), Smartdoll is really the smallest company out of the three by a HUGE margin, and the only one that I think really leans into the exclusive, "designer dolls" kind of aesthetic and feel, intentionally or otherwise. That's probably something they're trying to move away from considering the recent marketing aiming more towards kids, but still. Smartdoll is still very focused on the designer, very focused on keeping everything made in Japan, has a much higher price point, and a big focus on the Name and the Brand and keeping all the publicity positive...It very much feels like the "designer" version of a big vinyl doll. Considering Danny's from the designer world, given who his dad is, that would certainly explain a lot of the weird unspoken rules around his company and how it operates. He's probably approaching his business how one would in the designer world...And since it's also a small company, he also has to try and balance the workload with what his team can handle, so there's a lot of that too.

It explains some of the wilder drama in the fanbase, too. Much like taking your expensive Gucci dress to the tailors and turning it into a T-shirt would be crazy, so too would modding or changing the faceup on an original Smartdoll Kizuna V1 or whatever be considered sacrilege to the collectors who have the impression this is a designer doll brand. Because it's *designer*. It's exclusive, you're buying it for the design, and only a few like that were made, or are going to BE made. The rest can be explained by the company being small, but selling on the scale of their huge (in comparison) competitors. Customers expect certain things from Volks or Obitsu, in terms of quality, amount of spare parts made available, amount of dolls produced and clothing created, and price levels, and these are things that those two can deliver because they're large and experienced and have probably much larger teams and manufacturers backing them that Smartdoll just...doesn't have. Or can't have. But rather than explain that (bad for the designer brand reputation), it has to be explained a different way, and customers with those expectations quietly discouraged...or banned, if they aren't discouraged and keep drumming up bad publicity.

Thinking of it THAT way, and remembering that the team is small and the demand and output is huge despite that, and a lot of the weirdness in the community and the brand itself makes a lot more sense. I'm mad that it took until now for me to figure out the analogy, considering I've been trying to make sense of WHY Smartdoll, out of all the "Big Three", has this much drama for ages now. It's because it's a tiny company trying to be both a designer brand and an "independent artist" doll company...but because of its popularity and ability to (mostly) keep up with the popularity, it's playing on the same stage as huge companies in the doll world (Volks) and the plastics manufacturing world (Obitsu), with customers that expect the same things from them as they would get from the huge guys. That's a hugely stressful situation to be put in. I'd be kinda crazy too, in Danny's shoes.

It doesn't excuse his nastiness (seriously dude, hire folks to do the customer service and social media posts, you'll feel so much better), nor the nastiness from the bad parts of his fanbase in my eyes (so much of the drama could be solved if all the adults involved could discuss things like adults), but it does explain a lot for me, so thanks for the revelation! 😊

On 11/28/2021 at 10:39 AM, Starlight said:

As a new doll fan and after buying my very first Smart Doll, I cant see anything toxic yet. 

It is just unique how I get treated as a customer. I get a personal message, get asked and everything including the shipping seems to have high standards.

What I see, is the Smart Doll shop is kinda limited and exclusive. Danny Choo seems not to sell more then 2 dolls per order, there is no extra wig, also a lot of stuff is out of stock - like the blue dolls. Also there are rarely any Smart Dolls on ebay and such. It seems like people treat their dolls like family and never sell them.

Comparing to that the VOLKS store seems bigger with like 16 pages of wigs only. And there are always special dolls (inspired from anime and games) around. You get the dolls easier on reseller stores like ebay. They also sell the heads to make people mod and resell them. 

I dunno how to put it, but I thought the doll stores are more..... popular. At first I thought VOLKS was the US version of Smart Doll until I realized that those high quality dolls are kinda exclusive to japan.

Finally allow me the thought, that after buying a Smart Doll (or dollfie dream), you might not like ANY other dolls anymore. I wouldnt call it toxic, but maybe kinda an elite and even arrogant view. It must be kinda elite if we buy dolls für 600 dollar and more.

I would ask if you have looked at other smaller doll artists? Iplehouse, for example. I am planning to get one of theirs in the future.  A blank Iplehouse doll, that is a doll with no wig and no faceup, costs more than a Smart Doll, and that's if you just choose the most basic skin tones. If you want a light brown skin tone it already starts costing more.  I started pricing some Iplehouse dolls because they are on sale for the holiday and one that I am really yearning for came out to $1100k, with just a wig and faceup, no clothes, and that isn't even calculating the shipping yet which is crazy high.  If I had the money it would be totally worth it! Those dolls are highly sculpted, though, so a better example is this Shoushou Doll Niko I've had my eye on for about a month. I believe this little darling does come with a faceup, but in comparison to Smart Doll she is only 1:4 scale. She does at least include a resin wig this time! But at $425 she's really only about $30 less than a Smart Doll. Still seems fair for a small shop? I'd buy her if I had the money right now!

I'm just saying Smart Doll are not that expensive when you look at the general market. Dollfie only might seem that way because they are a much larger organization than I think any other doll maker out there. Everyone else is a small shop who can only do very limited quantities and so it gets more expensive.

5 hours ago, Oculae said:

Smartdoll is really the smallest company out of the three by a HUGE margin

Not to mention that Smartdoll parts are believed to be manufactured by Obitsu. 

20 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

Not to mention that Smartdoll parts are believed to be manufactured by Obitsu. 

This sounds really unexpected. Not impossible, now that I think about it, but there is literally no mention about this anywhere. 

May I ask the source of this? Is there a blog post or something? My curiosity is tickled.

I guess if any parts were made by obitsu, it would be the frames. The vinyl shells are made at smaller factories it seems, judging by posts on instagram and the main site. But if someone told me the frames were outsourced to obitsu I wouldn't be surprised. Simply it would be understandable as a good place to get parts made.

Although yeah, sauce please! 😂

The stands are made in a smaller factory too fwiw. Just mentioning it 'cos those telescopic stands are awesome to the point where I consider them a part of the doll.

8 hours ago, youdawurst said:

I would ask if you have looked at other smaller doll artists? Iplehouse, for example. I am planning to get one of theirs in the future.  A blank Iplehouse doll, that is a doll with no wig and no faceup, costs more than a Smart Doll, and that's if you just choose the most basic skin tones. If you want a light brown skin tone it already starts costing more.  I started pricing some Iplehouse dolls because they are on sale for the holiday and one that I am really yearning for came out to $1100k, with just a wig and faceup, no clothes, and that isn't even calculating the shipping yet which is crazy high.  If I had the money it would be totally worth it! Those dolls are highly sculpted, though, so a better example is this Shoushou Doll Niko I've had my eye on for about a month. I believe this little darling does come with a faceup, but in comparison to Smart Doll she is only 1:4 scale. She does at least include a resin wig this time! But at $425 she's really only about $30 less than a Smart Doll. Still seems fair for a small shop? I'd buy her if I had the money right now!

I'm just saying Smart Doll are not that expensive when you look at the general market. Dollfie only might seem that way because they are a much larger organization than I think any other doll maker out there. Everyone else is a small shop who can only do very limited quantities and so it gets more expensive.

It's all about personal preference ^^

Before buying my Smart Doll, I looked on etsy to see multiple dolls in multiple outfits, trying to get a feeling for what dolls looks like. I think that it is important not just to look at the doll stores but also other places, youtube videos and such not to buy something you might regret since those dolls are so expensive.

Considering my preferences I found a high popularity for Smart Dolls (culture japan) and VOLKS. Both are amazing and pretty. I guess VOLKS was the first bjd store, selling since 1999 and culture japan is maybe the one people talk most about.

Being an anime and manga fanboy I fall in love with the smart dolls easilly. No doubt, the Iplehouse dolls are looking fantastic on paper, very realistic sculpted faces. But I never wanted a fully realistic doll nor a classic doll. I wanted an anime inspired girl with a pretty smile. I think you need a product (and a feace) you fall in love for. If you like the Iplehouse and have the money, go for it! Also I can understand VOLKS fans, who maybe love a limited doll cause it's a character from their favourit anime series.

Maybe thats also a reason for the hype. I am sure some japan or anime fans would NEVER buy from Iplehouse just because it's from south korea and not from the "homeland" japan. But like I said, I am a newbie. I thought bought what I fell in love for. Personally I think all mentioned doll shops are great ... and all are expensive. Therefore you make a decision. You probably wont buy dolls from all shops, maybe you will even stick with just one. 

8 hours ago, Bellatrix said:

May I ask the source of this? Is there a blog post or something?

It's been brought up here on the smartdoll section, but I don't recall the thread. It might be debacle thread, but it's also possible its in one of the others.

 

35 minutes ago, Starlight said:

No doubt, the Iplehouse dolls are looking fantastic on paper, very realistic sculpted faces.

The Iplehouse doll that was linked was anime style.

12 minutes ago, BeyondTime said:

The Iplehouse doll that was linked was anime style.

True! Lemme get more accurate about what I mean: VOLKS and culture japan are mostly about anime. Iplehouse has lots of realistic looking dolls and some(!) anime dolls. 

I can't really explain it, I can just say I am feeling more "home" at VOLKS and culture japan. Their dolls feel closer to my favourit manga or animes. Especially the semi realistic eyes do it for me, mixing anime flavor with realism. But there is no point of discussing personal preference of course.

Someone on Facebook was getting harassed by a seller just because they were skeptical about getting scammed when buying a smart doll and it’s like no one cared in the vinyl doll group like at least try to prevent scammers. sigh the community isn’t all that great.

1 hour ago, dolladdiction said:

Someone on Facebook was getting harassed by a seller just because they were skeptical about getting scammed when buying a smart doll and it’s like no one cared in the vinyl doll group like at least try to prevent scammers. sigh the community isn’t all that great.

I was worried about this possibly happening (the harassing I mean) so I reported the post to admins. Ended up getting suspended by them and now I cannot do anything in the group anymore till Friday. They just don't care.

1 minute ago, WorldofBJD said:

I was worried about this possibly happening (the harassing I mean) so I reported the post to admins. Ended up getting suspended by them and now I cannot do anything in the group anymore till Friday. They just don't care.

You got suspended because you were trying to avoid harassment?? I have no words... You'd think the group would be all for avoiding something like that.

I do know the seller in question is someone really well known in the community, with one of the biggest collections as well, so that might be why. People find it insane the thought of this seller scamming anyone, because she's so well known in the community. But the thing is; not everyone could know that? The buyer might not have been a big part of the community, some collectors like to collect more in private and not really join any communities much so it would make sense for the buyer to not know this. It's really wrong to gang up on someone just because they would like some proof of owning the doll, I think it's never a wrong thing to ask a seller if you are really feeling unsure about a purchase. Dolls are pricey after all so putting some extra thought into these things is more than normal.

5 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

You got suspended because you were trying to avoid harassment?? I have no words... You'd think the group would be all for avoiding something like that.

I do know the seller in question is someone really well known in the community, with one of the biggest collections as well, so that might be why. People find it insane the thought of this seller scamming anyone, because she's so well known in the community. But the thing is; not everyone could know that? The buyer might not have been a big part of the community, some collectors like to collect more in private and not really join any communities much so it would make sense for the buyer to not know this. It's really wrong to gang up on someone just because they would like some proof of owning the doll, I think it's never a wrong thing to ask a seller if you are really feeling unsure about a purchase. Dolls are pricey after all so putting some extra thought into these things is more than normal.

I was worried because it was a post without proof of scamming and I found it was not a clear sign of scamming that someone doesn't do the name + date thing. Seemed like a miscommunication rather so I was worried that the poster would get attacked for how she wrote it down. So I wanted the admins to take a look at the post because I know admins can't keep an eye on anything. Almost instantly I got a notice with "You've been suspended, you cannot comment, like, post etc" It was so weird. In the groups where I mod I always recommend reporting to admins because I tend to miss drama whenever it happens. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Sebby

I’m not defending them but you guys probably haven’t heard of the name plus date thing but it’s enforced in Disney doll groups so people don’t get scammed so it’s proof they have the doll, I heard they had a smart doll so they are in the hobby but just wanted to make sure they weren’t getting scammed I mean I would too ppl can fake stuff nowadays.

 

im in a lot of Disney doll groups I’ve had experience selling so i kinda understand them I guess 🤷‍♀️ 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Guest

1 minute ago, dolladdiction said:

I’m not defending them but you guys probably haven’t heard of the name plus date thing but it’s enforced in Disney doll groups so people don’t get scammed so it’s proof they have the doll

I also collect Disney so I know of that method very well. Probably also why I don't find it a weird thing to ask, since I'm familiar with that way of working already.

2 minutes ago, Roxanne said:

I also collect Disney so I know of that method very well. Probably also why I don't find it a weird thing to ask, since I'm familiar with that way of working already.

I know it’s just the doll was listed as $750 and it’s an expensive hobby so I understand the reason but it sucks that the seller seemed kinda immature 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Guest

I think it’s just better to stay off Facebook 

I've heard of it, so I know what the buyer meant by it. It's been a thing in the resin BJD part of the hobby for ages. What I more meant is that it seemed like the seller may not have understood (thus, miscommunication). Sorry, my reply was a bit vague. 12 hour workday and lack of coffee don't go well together. I am not blaming buyer or seller, I just thought the post seemed very "the seller is a scammer" while I just think the seller was just being a tad difficult or not understanding the request. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Sebby

15 minutes ago, Sebby said:

I've heard of it, so I know what the buyer meant by it. It's been a thing in the resin BJD part of the hobby for ages. What I more meant is that it seemed like the seller may not have understood (thus, miscommunication). Sorry, my reply was a bit vague. 12 hour workday and lack of coffee don't go well together. I am not blaming buyer or seller, I just thought the post seemed very "the seller is a scammer" while I just think the seller was just being a tad difficult or not understanding the request. 

It’s okay, sorry, I misunderstood, but I understand now, it’s better to have discussions on here because everyone isn’t hostile and the mods actually do something because Facebook seems kinda scary haha

Edited November 30, 2021 by Guest

I think also here people get to think more about how they write something because a forum is a calmer environment. I feel like social media is always so rushed. You have to reply quickly, usually in short messages, so it is easier to say "you suck" than "I disagree because..." And I think that is also what makes the community on FB (all communities really) more toxic than it actually is. First because things do sound more harsh in written form, and replies to posts/situations are as short as possible. So miscommunication, rudeness, aggressiveness happen more there.

Like, I mod one of the biggest SMD groups. (don't be scared, I don't bite tho). If I got paid for the amount of miscommunications I've had to deal with, I would've been able to buy a new SmD now. 

14 minutes ago, Sebby said:

I think also here people get to think more about how they write something because a forum is a calmer environment. I feel like social media is always so rushed. You have to reply quickly, usually in short messages, so it is easier to say "you suck" than "I disagree because..." And I think that is also what makes the community on FB (all communities really) more toxic than it actually is. First because things do sound more harsh in written form, and replies to posts/situations are as short as possible. So miscommunication, rudeness, aggressiveness happen more there.

Like, I mod one of the biggest SMD groups. (don't be scared, I don't bite tho). If I got paid for the amount of miscommunications I've had to deal with, I would've been able to buy a new SmD now. 

Ohh I might join the smart doll Facebook groups anyway just to post my dolls because I don’t want to keep hiding even if they all hate me haha but yeah I agree with you on the social media aspect 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Guest

I was talking to that girl who posted that she wanted the note in front of the doll and she said was on Facebook really quick before she deleted her account and she posted in that bad transactions or something like that for dolls telling the truth, but instead of everyone talking about it like adults, she got kicked out blocked from the group but that girl who was gonna sell her the doll was really aggressive and calling her a liar. That’s really disappointing tbh I think I’m gonna leave Facebook after I get the doll I want then I’m out

Edited November 30, 2021 by Guest

Alright that's enough of this episode everyone.  

 

I'm at work right now and can't do the proper checks but if ANYONE here has more than ONE account, that's a bannable offense.  Especially if that person is using both accounts to try and make someone else look bad when they've done nothing wrong. 

 

I'll check IP addresses when I get off  work unless @Averis or @BeyondTime can look at them first.  If those accounts are found to be the same person, both will be banned.

If they are different people then I'd appreciate you both stop the witch hunt on Katerina. She's not a member here and she can't defend herself due to that. So I'd like this finger pointing and such to please stop. The screen shots above are pretty damning and they match exactly what I've seen elsewhere. This incident didn't happen here and while I'm all for outing a scammer for bad practices, I've seen zero facts to prove Katerina was even thinking about that. It looks to me that a misunderstanding occurred and both parties got a bit flustered and things went south. 

That's all for now. Thank you @bbotss for the photos. 

 

Billy

Just a quick reminder that the rules require folks to keep personal disputes off the open forums, so any issues with a private transaction need to be handled in PMs.