What's up with Male Dolls?

1 hour ago, Giragira said:

Not to be bossy ragnamuffin but if this topic is aggravating you it might be better to take a break from it. I really don't think anyone will change their mind about why they feel like they do for better or worse. I think most people on this topic are just really annoyed that they feel ignored in a hobby they like.

Thanks for the concern(?) but I'm not upset that people have their own ideas about this issue. As I've said before, people are free to think what they want about it, even if I think that ruminating and drawing groundless conclusions is pointless. My issue is with people coming in and saying "your input is wrong because it goes against the unsubstantiated conclusion I came up with in my head" and then trying to take digs at me and my character in their responses. If it makes the people in this thread feel better, I do think that Volks is starting to wake up to the demand for male dolls, and if Imomodoll, etc. can clearly demonstrate that there's a market for it, Volks will likely follow suit.

3 hours ago, ragnamuffin said:

Thanks for the concern(?) but I'm not upset that people have their own ideas about this issue. As I've said before, people are free to think what they want about it, even if I think that ruminating and drawing groundless conclusions is pointless. My issue is with people coming in and saying "your input is wrong because it goes against the unsubstantiated conclusion I came up with in my head" and then trying to take digs at me and my character in their responses. If it makes the people in this thread feel better, I do think that Volks is starting to wake up to the demand for male dolls, and if Imomodoll, etc. can clearly demonstrate that there's a market for it, Volks will likely follow suit.

I have to say.... I think most people who disagreed with you probably wanted to debate in good faith. I know I did... And like everyone said, the issue wasn't really that Volks did not produce male bodies. In fact I feel like if they never did, this thread wouldn't exist. The issue was that the male bodies weren't sold online, which leads to several of barriers in regards to obtaining one, even in Japan. Everyone was trying to come to a conclusion that seemed to make sense, especially as there was clear demand even in Japan. With me, my gripes about you were mostly that you were insulting people who disagreed with you. My first response began by making that clear. When you responded to me, you doubled down on the insults, and didn't seem to read anything outside of the first thing I said. I have to be blunt here and admit that it was, in fact, you doubling down on insulting everyone who disagreed with you, and coming off like you were claiming the intellectual high ground simply because you were live in Japan and are in the JP doll community and had some familiarity with it (but more so the insulting dissenters part), was basically the thing that lead to me dismissing you as "just some misandrist who isn't worth debating because they will insult someone for disagreeing." Though your mention of Volks becoming slightly aware of a demand for male dolls is a silver lining, because they are aware that there is money to be made in regards to what amounts to a smaller but dedicated group of doll enthusiasts.

1 hour ago, RozenGermain said:

With me, my gripes about you were mostly that you were insulting people who disagreed with you. My first response began by making that clear. When you responded to me, you doubled down on the insults, and didn't seem to read anything outside of the first thing I said. I have to be blunt here and admit that it was, in fact, you doubling down on insulting everyone who disagreed with you, and coming off like you were claiming the intellectual high ground simply because you were live in Japan and are in the JP doll community and had some familiarity with it (but more so the insulting dissenters part), was basically the thing that lead to me dismissing you as "just some misandrist who isn't worth debating because they will insult someone for disagreeing."

Look, I appreciate that you seem to be attempting to extend some sort of olive branch here (I think?), but I don't know how you could write this in good faith and expect anyone to accept it. It really sounds like you're trying to excuse the personal attacks you made to my character ('mean-girl BS', 'man-hating') because you misconstrued my initial responses to other people as 'insults'. Disagreeing with someone and pointing out the logical fallacies of their arguments isn't insulting them, and it's not your place to start a flame war over comments I make to other people. You seem to have missed most of the nuance in my previous responses, and I'm not interested in rehashing this entire conversation with you, but I already addressed every single point you brought up in my previous posts and acknowledged that while there is demand for boy dolls, as it is now, it's clearly not enough for Volks, for whatever reason. Feel free to go back and re-read them. If you're serious about your replies being in good faith, then I would appreciate it if you would acknowledge the insulting assumptions you made about me and apologize properly.

this may get off-topic with mentions of the resin doll community so i apologize if i'm outside of the rules but throwing in my two cents as a boy doll collector: i think we are definitely a niche group in the vinyl community. just observing even the western side of things i can think of a handful of other collectors who have male dolls or a primarily male doll collection. i think a majority of people who collect male dolls see more options in the resin world and could be turned off by the difficulty and learning curve of hybridizing male vinyl dolls (this is just my opinion 🤷‍♂️). it does take more work (and often more money if you're a volks fan) to get male dolls on this side of the hobby which could be pushing people to the resin side instead. volks already makes good money off of their male resin dolls so maybe they don't see the need to push those buyers to the vinyl market.

all of that to say, it's unfortunate because i definitely prefer working and playing with internal skeletons versus strung dolls. i really wish there were more options for us who like to collect male vinyl dolls. it does feel like there's efforts being made in newer companies like ufdoll, tiny fox, and imomo so there's that at least.

12 minutes ago, snailbox said:

volks already makes good money off of their male resin dolls so maybe they don't see the need to push those buyers to the vinyl market.

this is my hot take haha

i think that volks makes beautiful boy SD and beautiful girl DD models. although i have one on the way, the DD boys don’t give the same “oomph” that my girls do… at least not at the moment. 

if i had the option between my favorite male character getting released as a SD or a DD i probably would pick SD because i know volks would make something beautiful even if it’s not a 100% anime accurate head/ eyes. i think it’s ok to play it safe and deliver on quality instead of risking a doll that leaves a lot to be desired. that’s just me. 

anyway, i love the square enix models so far and think that they are bridging the gap between the two doll lines. it would be cool to see the semi realistic yet anime-esque vinyl dolls to expand in the future! 

Okay so they got back to me very quickly which is great but it's just kind of a non answer? I'm not sure if maybe I didn't word my question correctly or this is just the standard answer "why are dollfie dream boy dolls not available online unless they're a limited/fullset doll". Anyone else feel free to ask too because I am curious.

5 hours ago, amiamitchi said:

this is my hot take haha

i think that volks makes beautiful boy SD and beautiful girl DD models. although i have one on the way, the DD boys don’t give the same “oomph” that my girls do… at least not at the moment. 

if i had the option between my favorite male character getting released as a SD or a DD i probably would pick SD because i know volks would make something beautiful even if it’s not a 100% anime accurate head/ eyes. i think it’s ok to play it safe and deliver on quality instead of risking a doll that leaves a lot to be desired. that’s just me. 

anyway, i love the square enix models so far and think that they are bridging the gap between the two doll lines. it would be cool to see the semi realistic yet anime-esque vinyl dolls to expand in the future! 

See, I am the total opposite. Even as a resin doll collector with several semi-realistic dolls, I find anime dolls and character accuracy much more appealing to me. Like, I know SD did a Rozen Maiden collab, but even as a big Rozen Maiden fan, the dolls don't appeal to me at all because it feels like someone just took a random SD sculpt and slapped cosplay clothes on it. Whereas DDs (at least attempt) to replicate what you see in an anime or manga. While I'm sure some people would be thrilled if they made, say, a Touken Ranbu collab SD, I'd be pretty disappointed. The line is blurred more with characters that are already semi-realistic, like the Nier dolls, where I feel like they could have been produced by either line and people would be happy.

5 hours ago, Giragira said:

Okay so they got back to me very quickly which is great but it's just kind of a non answer? I'm not sure if maybe I didn't word my question correctly or this is just the standard answer "why are dollfie dream boy dolls not available online unless they're a limited/fullset doll".

Their replies often miss the mark so it wasn’t unexpected, but thank you for asking.

No problem it was worth a shot! I was hopeful they'd give something concrete as well.

On 9/4/2024 at 11:35 PM, ragnamuffin said:

That’s… not really true though? If they were still making dolls of characters from shitty degenerate eroge I could see it, but they’ve distanced themselves from their past and have really cleaned up their act. Nowadays they just release characters from popular anime, and those characters are popular with male and female fans alike.

Agreed, and when you get into Volks resins, they have a huge female fan base. Their resin boys are hugely popular too. If anything, it’s the vinyls that are secondary to their main resin lines. 

8 hours ago, Giragira said:

Okay so they got back to me very quickly which is great but it's just kind of a non answer? I'm not sure if maybe I didn't word my question correctly or this is just the standard answer "why are dollfie dream boy dolls not available online unless they're a limited/fullset doll". Anyone else feel free to ask too because I am curious.

In general companies are fairly unlikely to answer this kind of question pertaining to business tactics truthfully (because trade secrets) when the question comes from a member of the general public. At best, they might answer that they've just announced a new product that is the kind of product you want, or point at their current assortment.

OTOH, they might open up a bit more in an actual professional interview or Q&A panel. Ask at Dolpa LA.

On 9/6/2024 at 3:59 AM, RozenGermain said:

straight male otaku, well, many of them do think boys are icky, so they don't collect them.

There's a fairly large chunk of the male population (worldwide) that thinks a man liking a representation of another man, the colour pink, or something that "only girls like" makes them gay or a pansy.

It gets especially hilariously pathetic if the person in question is one of those people who want you to know that they're very secure in their heterosexuality by being Very Manly In Your Face All The Time, including borderline homophobic behaviour where they continuously come up with unlikely scenarios involving gay interaction they see everywhere (you gotta wonder why, if they're so "secure" in their heterosexuality...something-something about a closet😙).

Sometimes I exploit that kind of feeling by putting on pink just to watch them squirm...

Curiously, this train of thought never applies to male action figures, despite most interactions in such lines being 100% male-on-male.

So to say, there's nothing wrong with liking male dolls as a man, just like there's nothing wrong with liking customising a car as a woman.

This thread is going to look really funny if they announce DDB/DDSB is coming into the Online Shop within the next six months or so. Chimikko is supposedly coming, so maybe the boys will come along too?

24 minutes ago, PlasticJester said:

This thread is going to look really funny if they announce DDB/DDSB is coming into the Online Shop within the next six months or so. Chimikko is supposedly coming, so maybe the boys will come along too?

If they do, I'll be over the moon!

I was wondering, what kind of boy would the people in this thread make?

I think I'll make doll versions of manga/video game characters, but I'll probably make several original characters as well. I'm hoping to make a doll based off of that US D'Coord DDB from last year.

Edited September 7, 2024 by Amapola

43 minutes ago, PlasticJester said:

This thread is going to look really funny if they announce DDB/DDSB is coming into the Online Shop within the next six months or so. Chimikko is supposedly coming, so maybe the boys will come along too?

Lord I'd be so happy! Maybe they will I am excited about the chimikko body already. Maybe we can do that "manifesting" thing lol.

32 minutes ago, Amapola said:

If they do, I'll be over the moon!

I was wondering, what kind of boy would the people in this thread make?

I think I'll make doll versions of manga/video game characters, but I'll probably make several original characters as well. I'm hoping to make a doll based off of that US D'Coord DDB from last year.

Personally I have several OCs I'd like to make, plus one just to have more boy dolls. As for shelling characters, I have a lot I love, but picking ones that would fit a DDB is hard....Sanji from One Piece, maybe?

I think if they would release a boy that's slightly bigger and more muscular/manly than the ddb it would be more /even more popular. 

Because as soon as you put a sweater on the ddb you will not even see anymore it's a boy body. 

Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't need a super beefy uncle guy, but something a long what smartdoll released back then would work so well with lots of anime/manga character customizations. 

Edited September 7, 2024 by pyoko

 

Yeah...I'm going to be delusional here;  and hope that Alisaie being on DD 2.0, while Alphinaud isn't, means they have something more in mind for updated boy bodies.😅

I feel if boys were something they didn't want to focus much on- they'd have released the "streamlined" 2.0 alongside the girls without much fanfair (partially for the sake of having limiteds on the same body? since most limited boys aren't released alone).

Though, I'm new in terms of keeping up with DD news and stuff. While reading posts from when Len first released, I got the Impression people didn't really see the boy body until it was delivered? And there probably isn't much difference sculpt wise between boy III and F3. Which would suggest the opposite (updating boys aren't high up for them).

 

If they did release a more "masculine" boy body, I'd use it to update kaito. The current boy body really clashes with how I see his character and just general community canon (Plus  I'd really prefer to keep all my DDs on vinyl.)

 

 

Edited September 7, 2024 by luna_Lillie

@amiamitchi I completely agree. I have nothing against male dolls, but all the DD boys either look like young boys or, if they're older teens like DCH 25 & 26, look uncanny to me. Volks has had 20 years to refine their anime girl sculpts whereas DD boys are in their awkward phase. Kaito is the first vinyl guy I thought they did well.

IMO anime men are drawn more similarly to BJDs than anime girls & women. Even slender, feminine twink types have proper noses instead of little dots, defined brow ridges, and prominent lips & chins compared to girls. Touken Ranbu chose to make fullset resin doll collaborations with Dolk, not Volks, for their most popular characters.

My view on why Volks doesn't make more male dolls is similar to ragnamuffin's; I also think fujoshi and male doll collectors gravitate towards resin for the reasons mentioned above

Edited September 7, 2024 by meteorite

On 9/7/2024 at 10:27 AM, meteorite said:

IMO anime men are drawn more similarly to BJDs than anime girls & women. Even slender, feminine twink types have proper noses instead of little dots, defined brow ridges, and prominent lips & chins compared to girls. Touken Ranbu chose to make fullset resin doll collaborations with Dolk, not Volks, for their most popular characters.

My view on why Volks doesn't make more male dolls is similar to ragnamuffin's; I also think fujoshi and male doll collectors gravitate towards resin for the reasons mentioned above

Makes perfect sense.... Male doll collectors tend to gravitate to resin over vinyl for a plethora of reasons... Even with anime dolls there are more easily available options for male dolls in resin than vinyl, where there only two companies that even try for that market, Tinyfox and Imomodoll. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if the Chimikko body becomes available online before boy bodies for a specific reason I mentioned in the thread for that body: Lalafell is one of the most popular race choices in Japan (ties with the kemonomimi cat race in terms of most popular), plus from personal experience girls are more popular to main that guy characters in MMOs, so I'm betting that the Chimikko body will show up online because people will wanna shell their Lalafells with it, especially if they put the Dream Choice elf ears online as well!

On 9/7/2024 at 6:04 AM, luna_Lillie said:

while Alphinaud isn't, means they have something more in mind for updated boy bodies.😅

What they said at the 2.0 presentation, was “The decision has not been made yet.”

They said this about every body that people asked about that has not already been announced for upgrade, including DD boys. 

@RozenGermain I dont know about MMOs, but Volks definitely wants a slice of the pear shaped chibi doll market.

As you mentioned, Puyoo Kumako, Imomodoll & Tinyfox are a similar body type to Chimikko and hugely popular in Japan. Male dolls have way less hype.

1 hour ago, meteorite said:

@RozenGermain I dont know about MMOs, but Volks definitely wants a slice of the pear shaped chibi doll market.

As you mentioned, Puyoo Kumako, Imomodoll & Tinyfox are a similar body type to Chimikko and hugely popular in Japan. Male dolls have way less hype.

Even then there are such a thing as male Kumakos lol (I actually got my hands on a Kumako boy Kaka second hand from Mercari Japan)! I would be shocked if male dolls had way less hype in Japan in general rather than just in the vinyl community. Like you said, male dolls seem to sell well enough in the BJD crowd to warrant Volks having plenty of them released for a while. But what you said makes perfect sense! Kumako has been a sensation in the doll hobby for a while, so Volks cashing in with their anime doll line is logical! Though I have no idea how popular Kumako boys are compared to the girls, but girl Kumakos are clearly more popular/common, though a male YoSD Kumako body has since released (which does validate my point about anime boy dolls being more of a thing in the BJD community compared to vinyl).

BTW when I mentioned MMOs I can vouch from personal experience about how female characters are often the more popular ones to play as. The reasons vary as a lot of people play girls because they have better options for clothing (I have a friend where this is the case for him), or in MMOs where the classes are gender-locked it could just be they like the way the character plays, it can be as simple as they are girls IRL, or in the case for gamerbros, they just want to play as their waifu (sadly this is one of the most common reasons from my experience). People are more often encouraged by the game itself to make their MMO characters idealized versions of themselves, and I tend to see that more often with people who play dudes in general than guys on girl characters, as I am one of the people who favors playing male characters in such games with the idea of the character being some sort of personal ideal.

https://ffxivcensus.com/#racegender

Also if you look at the above link, which is a census for the popular race/gender combos in FFXIV, the game I mentioned, it lines up with what I said, as a general rule, female characters are more popular picks for mains, and from what I've heard Lalafells specifically are much more popular in Japan than internationally. I joked about people shelling Lalafells with the Cimikko body in the thread for the body itself for a reason!

Happy to report that I was at least able to tell one member of Volks staff that I love DDBs at Dolpa 😆 He came over while I was taking a break out in the lobby and took a picture of me with my 9S and Kaito!

Regarding the "collectors of male dolls have it easier on the resin side": yes and no, at least for me. I have my duo shelled in resin as well, in 1/3 and 1/4 scale (and something along 1/12-1/8, but let's keep them aside for now), but I have very specific standards about how the boys have to look and I can't say that it is much cheaper overall. For one I only like anime style heads, so 90% of the ones I own are vinyl, because it is easier to get fitting sculpts there and most of all: in that case they are cheaper. When it comes to bodies I am also picky. I needed something with almost no muscle definition, pretty twinky, but not too much like a stick. My resin 1/3 Haruka did cost me almost as much as by DDB Haruka. Fuuta has his second body on the way, because I went with a cheap option for his first one and regretted it.

My 1/4 resin incarnations of them are chubby boy bodies from DF-H, have been discontinued for a while, but think Kumako in shape. Both of them have DD heads currently.

So it feels like ... being an anime boy doll collector is hard on either side of the material? Because I have zero interest in anime realistic or semi-realistic sculpts, but that seems what is running the best on the boy doll collectors resin side.