Some questions about white skin

So, white skinned Dollfies. I know why they were discontinued, due to stain-removal techniques often leaving them kinda yellowy, at least with Dream Rescue. But I recently had a blank Nia head practically fall into my lap, so now I'm in possession of a white skinned head and have a couple questions.

First of all: What kind of bodies are white skin? Both in size and...I guess model type? I know there's been DD, DDy, and MDD white skinned dolls at least, but I have no clue what the most modern white bodies are. Is it DDII? I doubt it's F3 at least.

Secondly, as I have no clue how rare white skinned dolls are: Would semiwhite be an appropriate enough match, or is it completely off? I think I've seen some people plunk white heads on semiwhite bodies, but I don't know how close it is.

there are white-skin base-III bodies (easiest example: Saber Alter both from the Pre-Order project, and Santa few years later) it was M-bust as well, if that helps anything

by F3 times, white was fully discontinued and replaced with semi-white

3 hours ago, PlasticJester said:

I know why they were discontinued, due to stain-removal techniques often leaving them kinda yellowy, at least with Dream Rescue.

Worse than that, they turn green. It seems to be hit or miss whether they change colour, because some people have successfully de-stained their WS dolls, but I can guarantee it’s a thing that happens even in 2024 because my Saber Alter turned green when I used Dream Rescue on her earlier this year.

I had @Tierparkzone have a look at her and he said he thought the WS dolls were originally green and coated with something to neutralize it into the white colour we see, but that stain removal methods will strip that off. So basically once the doll turns green, there’s no salvaging it, unfortunately (I am still SUPER salty about this and am weighing up my options on how/whether to get her another WS body).

Some people do use SWS bodies as an alternative, but SWS has a pinkish hue while WS has a yellowish hue, so the difference is noticeable. I doubt there’s an effective way to blush a SWS body to match a WS head (the reverse might be possible).

8 hours ago, ragnamuffin said:

Worse than that, they turn green. It seems to be hit or miss whether they change colour, because some people have successfully de-stained their WS dolls, but I can guarantee it’s a thing that happens even in 2024 because my Saber Alter turned green when I used Dream Rescue on her earlier this year.

I think the only solution to saving that Saber Alter body is just airbrush color matching at this point....

20 hours ago, PlasticJester said:

I know there's been DD, DDy, and MDD white skinned dolls at least

Off the top of my head, there were DDII and DDIII releases, DDdy (DDII frame only, extra rare because it's literally just one doll), DDS (III only, DDS did not exist on the DDII frame) for Mariko Sensei (NOT student or summer fest ver), the MDDs (DDII, I believe).... so all of the bodies that existed back then, basically. You could also build a WS DDIII and DDS body from parts on Volks USA back in the day, but they didn't sell the base body as a standalone.

As for color matching... You note that it's a blank head, so I say: skip the trouble and blush her to match an SWS torso. You don't have to go overboard to the point that she looks completely SWS-- just to where she'll reasonably match the bust. I've seen this done with Saber Alters in the past. 

WS bodies are difficult to obtain, difficult to find hands for, and nearly impossible to repair (especially DDIII with the fragile parts.) I'll note that many of the DDIII releases are on the primitive frame, which is more susceptible to cracking in the shoulders and thighs. 

In my experience, they also seem to yellow naturally over time like a resin BJD would. Not necessarily the banana yellow you'll see on some WS heads, but my Salter has gradually yellowed enough that she will not match a new, probably-stored-in-the-darkest-part-of-Volks-USA-warehouse option bust. This could also be a batch thing, though. 

As for dream rescue--- I refuse. However, I have had luck with 40vol hair developer. I used it for yellowing treatment, but it also lifted some of the stains around her head. I'd ALWAYS always always recommend testing the headcap first *just in case*, though. 

And congrats on your Nia! She's a cute sculpt.

Thanks for all the great advice so far! I did see a White body on YJ!A I might try and snag if it stays at a good price, but I'm definitely keeping a SWS body as my main concept. I think for Nia a DD or DDS would look best, I'm not a huuuge fan of DDdy and an MDD body would likely look strange with her more mature face.

Actually, you CAN clear up the yellowing and greening of the older WS bodies by a process called retrobrighting.  If you look at this thread:

Updated: Solution to Yellowing Dolls and Resin Eyes (updated 2020 with Picture) - Page 2 - Care and Repairs - DollDreaming 

you can see pics of my Saber Alter that I did the process to.  While the stains she had on her feet did not come out, all of the yellowing DID go away.  And so far there have been no ill effects to her since the process was done years ago.  It's pretty easy to do if you have all the things to make it work.  Otherwise you'll spend some cash getting them all.  I have a list of what I used in the above post.   

 

Billy

Oh, I think I know retrobrighting through vintage My Little Pony restoration! They use it on white ponies pretty often.

1 hour ago, baldylox said:

Actually, you CAN clear up the yellowing and greening of the older WS bodies by a process called retrobrighting.

Does this actually work for greening? My understanding is that yellowing is due to age and greening is due to a chemical reaction with the components found in stain treatment creams. If retrobrighting works for greening, I would be willing to pay you to retrobright my Salter’s body because I am really upset about it.

23 hours ago, ragnamuffin said:

Does this actually work for greening? My understanding is that yellowing is due to age and greening is due to a chemical reaction with the components found in stain treatment creams. If retrobrighting works for greening, I would be willing to pay you to retrobright my Salter’s body because I am really upset about it.

The person I talked to about this process who pointed me to the video I saw of the vintage Star Wars X-Wing getting treated told me that HE had a girl with greenish forearms and after soaking for 24 hours, it disappeared.  My Saber Alter had a very VERY slight green hue to one of her shins and after treatment it was no longer there.  I have no reason to think it wouldn't clear up areas that were more green.

The green and yellow issues BOTH stem from a chemical breakdown of the vinyl.  UV light from the sun accelerates the yellowing process while the greening happens only with certain lots/batches of WS vinyl.  If you look around, there are quite a few Nia dolls with the heads turning green while the bodies are not.  I've also seen it where her head stays white and the bodies go green.  I think this happens because they had already had WS bodies ready in stock and then made the Nia or Saber heads from another batch of WS vinyl.  Maybe a mixture was 1% off with an additive or 2% too heavy, who knows?  Making these things is quite a process with loads of steps where something could go wrong.  I've talked to other people about batch color differences before and we'd all seen it happen even with NS and SWS so it's not uncommon.

One of my old MDD WS bodies has both yellowing and greening on it.  Since I don't use that body anymore, I haven't tried the retrobrighting process on it yet.  But maybe I'll dig it out over Christmas break and see what happens with a treatment.

I'd be happy to help you out and treat your Saber.  Just know that if I dunk her head, her face up might come off or get damaged.  I didn't treat my Sabers head because it had no yellowing on it and I had been told that this process can remove or damage the paint on the face.  So I could either not treat the head and let it ride or treat it and cross my fingers for no damage.  Just letting you know it's possible.  Maybe we should wait and see how the treatment of my MDD body turns out and go from there.

 

 

Billy

 

1 hour ago, baldylox said:

One of my old MDD WS bodies has both yellowing and greening on it.  Since I don't use that body anymore, I haven't tried the retrobrighting process on it yet.  But maybe I'll dig it out over Christmas break and see what happens with a treatment.

I would be very interested to see the before and after photos, especially if the yellowing and greening is uneven. I’m interested to see if it can even out the green, yellow and white parts to the same colour.

1 hour ago, baldylox said:

I'd be happy to help you out and treat your Saber.  Just know that if I dunk her head, her face up might come off or get damaged.  I didn't treat my Sabers head because it had no yellowing on it and I had been told that this process can remove or damage the paint on the face.  So I could either not treat the head and let it ride or treat it and cross my fingers for no damage.  Just letting you know it's possible.  Maybe we should wait and see how the treatment of my MDD body turns out and go from there.

Thank you 🙏 

Her face is fine, so that won’t need to be retrobrighted. It’s really just the vinyl shells that need whitening (although I’m guessing after the bleaching process, the head and body won’t match…)

I’ve looked into it a bit more to see how hobbyists do it here in Japan and it actually seems pretty doable without any fancy equipment, so I might try that first and see how it goes (maybe after seeing the results of your MDD experiment first). Here’s hoping her body can be salvaged!

Normally when retrobrighting you don't have to dunk anything. You can use a small recipient with H2O2 which you set below the object you want to retrobright, within a sealed exclosure. The vapours will do the job just fine, with much less chance you damage the object you're retrobrighting.

16 hours ago, Kemonomimicry said:

Normally when retrobrighting you don't have to dunk anything. You can use a small recipient with H2O2 which you set below the object you want to retrobright, within a sealed exclosure. The vapours will do the job just fine, with much less chance you damage the object you're retrobrighting.

I've watched a LOT of videos online about this process and ALL of them showed completely submerging the item to be un-yellowed in hydrogen peroxide.  I haven't seen or heard of doing what you're talking about once.  Can you elaborate on how this works? 

 

Billy

9 hours ago, baldylox said:

I've watched a LOT of videos online about this process and ALL of them showed completely submerging the item to be un-yellowed in hydrogen peroxide.  I haven't seen or heard of doing what you're talking about once.  Can you elaborate on how this works? 

 

Billy

Googling "retrobright vapor" brings up lots of results, e.g. this Reddit thread:

https://www.google.com/search?q=retrobright+vapor

Advantages are a more even application, that you need less hydrogen peroxide and that there's less chance of damaging the item you're retrobrighting (because H2O2 is quite aggressive, really). 

Note that this usually requires a hydrogen peroxide solution (12%), which you can buy* in at pharmacies/hairdressers/beauty salons/some hardware stores (or a lab material store, if you have the proper licence), not the creams.

* Do not buy too much at once. Hydrogen peroxide is chemically unstable and tends to loose its extra oxygen atom over time, splitting into normal water and oxygen molecules.

Edited December 7, 2024 by Kemonomimicry

@Kemonomimicry  Thanks for those links and the info!  That is super cool how just the vapors/fumes can do the same thing as dunking the parts.  I'd never seen or heard of this before but I do admit all I searched for was "retrobrighting" so that's why I hadn't seen this.  I think I'll give this a try on that MDD body and see how it goes.

Thanks again for posting this, I'm sure everyone will find it super helpful.    

 

Billy

@baldylox  Hopefully not too off-topic, but may I ask, can wiping a faceup cause greening, since it is also a form of stripping the pigments? Just with 90-some percent alcohol; no brush cleaners.

18 hours ago, PolitelyNefarious said:

@baldylox  Hopefully not too off-topic, but may I ask, can wiping a faceup cause greening, since it is also a form of stripping the pigments? Just with 90-some percent alcohol; no brush cleaners.

I've had several WS heads wiped before and none of them have changed color in any way.  91% rubbing alcohol was used on all of them so in my cases, that hasn't caused any harm.  I think it's fine to use that for wiping a face up.   

 

Billy