Fake Dollfie Dreams?!

There's a reason for this post though it's not based in reality yet. Recently I was shopping for Figmas for my husband and this blog came to my attention:

 

http://pasublog.com/2009/05/25/bootleg/

 

It points out that there are very affordable Figma fakes on the market that look very much like the real thing but with slight differences in quality. I've not heard of Dollfie Dream fakes before but I was curious if anyone else on here has. I think the lotteries/direct sales help control much of the sale of 'fake dollfies' but isn't it possible in second hand markets to sell components that are not created by Volks yet look strikingly similar?

 

Has anyone heard of this happening?

 

Have you had an experience yourself?

 

Are there cheap and illegal Dollfie Dream clones out there with the Volks branding?

Now there are no fake DD in commerce: there are many kind of dolls similar to DDs (like Parabox ones), but making fakes for these kind of product is pretty difficult... Expecially because DDs are made in Japan and not in China!

I have a fake figure and a couple of nendoroids: the first one looks really like the original (I have also modified it a little) but the nendos are horrible... Unluckily there are tons of fake figures all around the world: I see many of them during italian anime conventions. What a shame...

Now there are no fake DD in commerce: there are many kind of dolls similar to DDs (like Parabox ones), but making fakes for these kind of product is pretty difficult... Expecially because DDs are made in Japan and not in China!

 

 

It wouldn't be too hard for a Chinese company to look at a DD though, right? I'm just playing the devil's advocate although you are completely correct- it would be a huge undertaking! I wonder if there would actually be much money in it?

There are plenty of fake super dollfies and such. I personally have not seen a Dollfie Dream fake yet. Well the reason for that before is that super dollfie is more popular and fetches higher value and so it's easier to fake that and sell those. But now that Dollfie Dream is getting more and more popular, who knows, maybe we'll just see some recast DDs too/soon?

I always thought that it would be harder to bootleg a vinyl figure, but given that there are bootlegs of Blythe and Pullip, as well as custom parts for DD busts (are those actually vinyl?) then it seems more likely.

 

Volks does not have the metal plates on heads for DD like they do for their resin dollfies. They don't provide any unique edition number for their LE's. Packaging can be easily bootlegged too. It's possible that bootlegs are already on the market, though perhaps discerning DD fans won't be fooled. Still, I'd be wary of second-hand heads, especially rare ones, from questionable sellers.

I'm sure there will be fakes made eventually. Fortunately having to make the wigs eyes and outfits makes it more involved undertaking than recasting just the body parts like on all plastic figures.

I recall seeing a warning about bootleg products on the Volks USA blog, though I don't recall it mentioning DD.

 

I know a good bit about bootleg Transformers, which go from really cheesy obvious stuff, to 'high end' vintage replicas and other items that rivals Hasbro/Takara. I have heard that sometimes the offical factory would do 'lunch time special' runs of bootleg toys from the actual molds, in all clear plastic to hawk on eBay... Not something we have to worry about with Volks.

 

I have to agree with Jadepixel that 2nd hand rare heads are what to be most wary of. I don't know if what sort of laws there are regarding 'country of origin' though, outside of it's a big deal in regards to produce. So saying something is made in Japan when it's really not might not be worth the risk...

as well as custom parts for DD busts (are those actually vinyl?)

 

If you are talking about the "Peach Pai" busts then no, those are not vinyl. Those are silicone and VERY soft and squishy. I think that is part of the draw for them too, so that they "react" more like real chests and can be "squished" between arms and in clothing to look more real.

 

Every Peach Pai I have seen was made from silicone. There may be some vinyl ones out there by different manufacturers that I am unaware of tho as I am no expert on aftermarket "hop up" parts for Dollfies.

 

 

Billy

as well as custom parts for DD busts (are those actually vinyl?)

 

If you are talking about the "Peach Pai" busts then no, those are not vinyl. Those are silicone and VERY soft and squishy. I think that is part of the draw for them too, so that they "react" more like real chests and can be "squished" between arms and in clothing to look more real.

 

Every Peach Pai I have seen was made from silicone...

As much as I am a vinyl fan, I am also a very big silicone fan. But, if I have to choose between the two materials (both - top quality materials) for my future DD, I would undoubtly go with silicon.

 

Silicon - don't have to worry about stains, and top-quality silicon body parts are "humanly" soft. Saying anymore may be off-topic?

 

Thanks for the info, Baldylox!

 

-Halcyon

I've been to a doll meet in which a girl there bought, without knowing, a fake Volks Super Dollfie from eBay (most positive it was eBay). While it wasn't a DD, it was still a Volks knock off and very unfortunate ><.

 

I've never (and probably won't) ordered dolls from eBay in fear of it being a fake ><.

 

I eBayed "dollfie dream," filtered the results to "Price: Highest first" and am seeing Limited edition DDs with a price tag of $3k. These sellers have 99%-100% feedback, but are you able to tell if the doll is legit? I can see asking for owner pictures of the doll (rather than having just default pictures) but the seller could take someone else's owner pics. I guess that's where research comes in.

 

I'm seeing Aoi and Yukino for sale on eBay for $700. I hope someone whose looking to order a DD realizes that they are not that much on the Volks site .

 

Also let it be known I am not accusing any of these sellars to be frauds Basically what I'm getting at is, how do you tell if the product is legit or not?

I saw the $700 Aoi and Yukino as well. I thought it was crazy until I saw somebody explaining that for people in certain countries outside Japan and the US, they're actually a pretty good deal compared to ordering them from Volks international, and neither Volks branch will ship to certain countries at all.

Basically what I'm getting at is, how do you tell if the product is legit or not?

That's a pretty tough question to answer, because no confirmed case of a fake DD has been tried yet. To reinforce the point - I think scanning every DD-related items that you (or anyone else) bought from eBay would be the second step to protecting yourself from getting a "fake" merchandise. The first step has already been mentioned - check and confirm the items first before you buy (and be suspicious of any seller that uses Volks' stock photos? ). Remember, if you get an item that isn't as described, eBay Buyer Protection got you covered! Sheesh... eBay has been very harsh to their sellers nowadays...

 

Not using eBay? Well, good luck, !

 

... ...

 

Sorry about that. I DIDN'T meant it, and I wouldn't leave those that don't use eBay out of the question! Well, basically, if you see or "smell" something fishy, then don't buy! In other words, just go with your guts feeling. And, if you don't trust the seller, then don't buy from him/her. Lastly - if you are serious about the purchase, then give the other party a phone call to check and confirm the quality of the item(s). And the saying goes... "Ask for a quote."

 

-Halcyon

I saw the $700 Aoi and Yukino as well. I thought it was crazy until I saw somebody explaining that for people in certain countries outside Japan and the US, they're actually a pretty good deal compared to ordering them from Volks international, and neither Volks branch will ship to certain countries at all.

 

I wanted to post the following here, but it's an off-topic issue:

Hello everyone,

 

Here's a short informational piece about which countries Volks ship to. Enjoy, .

 

Volks Japan

- only ships within Japan, and all parcels start from Kyoto via EMI.

 

Volks USA

- only ships to U.S.A., Canada and Mexico, and all parcels start from Los Angeles via UPS Ground or USPS EMI.

 

Volks International

Region 1:

Bangladesh, China, Guam, Hong Kong, India, Indonesia, Korea (S. Korea only?), Macao, Malaysia, Nepal, Pakistan, Philippines, Saipan, Singapore, SriLanka, Thailand, and Taiwan (R.O.C.).

 

Region 2-1:

Australi, Canada, Jamaica, Mexico, New Zealand, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, and U.S.A.

 

Region 2-2:

Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Holland, Hungary, Ireland, Italy, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the U.K.

 

Source: http://www.volks.co.jp/en/readme/shopping_term/estimated_shippingrates.aspx

 

If your country is not in the list, then try 3rd party forwarding services such as JapanToDoor and/or Tenso. Both of these services were advertised on DannyChoo.com. When using these kinds of service, please be prepared to pay +$25 for the service. For more information please visit Peter's Japan Blog at: .

 

-Halcyon

http://www.dollfiedreams.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=294

 

I saw the $700 Aoi and Yukino as well. I thought it was crazy until I saw somebody explaining that for people in certain countries outside Japan and the US, they're actually a pretty good deal compared to ordering them from Volks international, and neither Volks branch will ship to certain countries at all.

MaxArcher, I would like to add something - If the forwarding service fees and custom fees are included, then yes, they are actually pretty good deals. Otherwise, you may find yourself paying a little bit too much.

Also let it be known I am not accusing any of these sellars to be frauds Basically what I'm getting at is, how do you tell if the product is legit or not?

 

 

Well, when I sell my heads or bodies on eBay, I always include all the original packaging from Volks and the material.... I guess it depends on how good a fake could be if it had paperwork and the boxes as well. (???) Also someone's feedback score is a really good indication on the eBay. If they were selling fraudulent stuff under the Volks banner, I am sure someone would complain and then the gears of eBay bureaucracy would begin grinding away...

 

I guess I brought up this issue because I have been reading about people with different skeletal issues? I was thinking, perhaps, you could tell by the joints or the range of motion like with the figma? I can't say for sure but I am glad that no one has bought a fake DD.

 

I have heard about the fake SDs and people have said they can't really tell the difference? I'd have to research it more to really have anything intelligent to say about it... I'm just glad our DDs are safe for now.

You would be surprised how many of bootleg figure seller on eBay has 99/100% ratings. Yes they can have thousands of feedbacks, nearly nothing negative, yet they sell 100% pure bootleg figures. There's a few things.

 

#1. A lot of people don't recognize it's a bootleg

#2. Some people doesn't make a bit fuss over even if it is a bootleg, brush off with a I did save some money statement.

#3. A lot of sellers has shady practices such as if you don't give them negative feedback they will refund you the money. A lot of people wanted their money first and so complied.

 

I'm sure there are more reasons, but I know enough cases of people fit into these cases and I have seen enough bootleg sellers off eBay on figures. Now yes this is different product we are talking about. Just be glad that so far it seems bootleg activity hasn't spread or widely spread to Dollfie Dream yet. Because if they do like figures, then feedbacks and what not is not going to help you. As for box, quality. I can tell you, on the figure side, yes most bootleg figures are of significant lower quality that makes it easy to tell, but some bootleg figure has some amazing quality (the item, the box, everything) that can deceive even trained eyes. Figma is by far one of the easier one to recognize bootleg because the price of the item itself is low, and so they they can't put enough effort in faking everything or making things in better quality. However for higher priced figures, they can spend more and do a better job yet still make moeny. And if you can only imagine how much they can spend to make fake DDs yet still turn a profit. Well if the market is big enough, I'd say we'll spot fake DDs soon enough. After all there are already fake SDs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dollflip/5581383958/ by dollflip, on Flickr

 

I need to make a Dollfie Dream version of this...

 

...just summarizes my feelings of hopelessness.

Is quite easy to understand why there is not DD fake.

DD are made from japan, so in china is pretty f*ckd to get the molds to make the face/body/etc. (similar to lego, you don't see bootleg 100% equal)

About figma and other anime figures overall are made on China, same factory made the original and bootleg or sell mods! The problem is the quality control = 0. I can give some eg of anime figures that are made from the same factory as the original so.. all are original.

I haven't seen any fake DDs myself but from a technical aspect making your own fake DD parts shouldn't be too difficult. For many years I was very much into building resin figures, usually in the 1/6 - 1/8 scale range, and one of the more advanced technical aspects of the hobby was casting your own parts or entire figures.

 

It's rather inexpensive to buy the stuff to make silicone molds to let you start reproducing almost identical parts. The main difference I see is that we are talking about vinyl and not resin. I believe the process to make vinyl parts is to pour melted liquid vinyl into a mold and moved around to "fill the gaps". Depending how much is poured in and cooled will determine how thick the part is. I don't know if they have vinyl that forms through chemical re

 

I'm not sure how hot the melted vinyl is, how difficult it is to work with, or what type of mold material is needed but considering the resale value of DDs I'm surprised we don't know of more fakes.

 

I know that the bootleg resin figure market (kits) is huge.... Some are really poor quality as the more a mold is used the less detail it retains and the more it deteriorates.

 

**James

Is quite easy to understand why there is not DD fake.

DD are made from japan, so in china is pretty f*ckd to get the molds to make the face/body/etc. (similar to lego, you don't see bootleg 100% equal)

About figma and other anime figures overall are made on China, same factory made the original and bootleg or sell mods! The problem is the quality control = 0. I can give some eg of anime figures that are made from the same factory as the original so.. all are original.

 

Unfortunately I would say you are misinformed. And OtakuDepot you are right on about it is not technically difficult to copy something including a DD. And yes PVC is a bit different process but the only difference is that instead of silicon, they make the actual mold from steel. So a bit "investment" is needed. But the actual copying process is not all that different from the silicon mold process used for resin.

 

Most of the bootleg figures like figmas and what not are not mad by the same factories that has the master mold. Bootleg figures are off a poorer quality and lost a lot of details even from sculpturing perspective is because they are made by the process of recasting. That is they take an existing figure. Make a cast out of the existing product. And as you can imagine a photocopy of a photocopy is not as good as the photocopy itself. Most of the bootleg figures are made like that. Now due to the recast process that losses some of the original form/sharpness/edge of the item coupled with a hasty quick paint process is what made bootleg figures poor quality (of course they are bad in more than just build quality). Now so that is not the reason there's no no fake DDs. One can easily take a current DD and recast it. Just like how there are fake SDs. Same process. However, the complexity of DD with the internal frame with tons of parts is issue number one. Then there's the different materials used ABS + PVC + metal screws. That makes the initial "investment" to fake a DD relatively high (SD is much simpler, only one type material), coupled that with a market that doesn't promise quick gain in dollar is probably why we have yet to have a confirmed case of fake DD yet.

I think this discussion about entire fake DDs is rather pointless.

 

Body aside, there is much bigger profit and return to just creating custom heads or duplicating a head mould of a popular DD rather than copying the whole darn thing.

The DD body is generic other than bust size (and you can easily pick up the different sized busts).

 

The thing that makes a DD "Rin" instead of "Saber" is the head, eyes and wig. Clothes are important as well, but a lot of people dress their DDs in alternate outfits anyway.

I'd be a lot more wary of someone selling off a particular head mould cheap or a recast in resin.

 

Most of the copy of SDs are blatant copy of a particular SD head mould rather than a copy of the whole SD.

I think this discussion about entire fake DDs is rather pointless.

 

Body aside, there is much bigger profit and return to just creating custom heads or duplicating a head mould of a popular DD rather than copying the whole darn thing.

The DD body is generic other than bust size (and you can easily pick up the different sized busts).

 

The thing that makes a DD "Rin" instead of "Saber" is the head, eyes and wig. Clothes are important as well, but a lot of people dress their DDs in alternate outfits anyway.

I'd be a lot more wary of someone selling off a particular head mould cheap or a recast in resin.

 

Most of the copy of SDs are blatant copy of a particular SD head mould rather than a copy of the whole SD.

 

I have to agree with arrex. The most money really would come from the heads. There's lots of customizers out there and also SQLAB makes resin heads for DD - but I hardly count those as a "bootleg"

I think this discussion about entire fake DDs is rather pointless.

 

Oh, I disagree about this discussion being pointless. If you read the thread starter, it was open to all manner of discussion about bootlegging DDs. I love that it has created some discussion about whether or not it is a viable business model for people in different countries. I find it fascinating that it has taken that sort of turn! *^^*

 

I left the topic open ended in the tread starter because the "fake DD equation" obviously has too many variables for any one person to be able to say with any significant authority that it could or could not ever happen. Unless we're living in the creators country of origin, are familiar with production costs, process, selling fees, there's no way to say if it could actually be profitable or not- now, or in the future.

 

The base models of these dolls sell for $700.00 on eBay and the limiteds sell for over $2,000 then (heads alone sometimes over $500)... however likely or unlikely... you have to allow that it is possible that someone would seek to profits off of them in a secondary market.

 

Ultimately I like to think that the 'worth' of this thread lies within its proactive nature which creates an awareness/dialogue about bootlegging Dollfie Dreams in our community. I absolutely love hearing what everyone has to say because it's always extremely informative. No discussion is pointless when it contains interesting and relevant information- that is the point of joining and sharing on a forum! ^^

 

Thank you to every single person who has posted on this thread because each one of you have increased my DD education! ^^

I'll have to agree that this thread topic is far from "pointless".

 

It was obviously a concern for the thread starter or else they wouldn't have asked in the first place.

 

I think having open discussions on subjects like this can only help everyone that reads them. I sure didn't know if there were bootlegs of DD's out there or not. It makes sense that it's a possibility tho since most things that are valuable wind up getting bootlegged or faked in one way or another over time.

 

I used to collect vintage Star Wars items and there were LOTS of bootlegs and fakes on the market for those toys. If you didn't know what you were doing, you could easily get duped on something. So lots of collectors made sure to have discussions about known ebay sellers for fakes/bootlegs as well as threads about how to spot them. This thread seems to fall in that category in my opinion. The more info we can get out and available, the better for everyone right? There may not be much out there right now for faked DD's but who knows what may show up in a few years as the DD gets more and more popular? I know *I* would appreciate getting facts out and available as soon as possible to help as many potential Dolfie parents as we can. Half the fun of this hobby is the online community and the fact that almost everyone in it is helpful towards each other.

 

So asking questions is never a bad thing in my eyes. *Not* asking questions is what can get you in trouble.

 

 

 

 

Billy

Coming from figure collecting I certainly know a lot about bootlegging. Especially when it comes to "too good to be true" from eBay sellers (mostly from HK)

 

When I quoted arrex I wasn't agreeing that the discussion was pointless, but through reading the thread it seems a bit confusing.

 

It's established that there are bootlegs of some of the SD's and it discusses and debates whether bootlegging DD's would be profitable.. But so far there aren't any bootleg DD's but there are MANY third party parts for DD's. Everything from custom resin heads to SUPER huge breasts.

 

Where do you draw the bootleg line? Is it bootleg if it isn't officially released by volks? This subject is very grey for me.

Where do you draw the bootleg line? Is it bootleg if it isn't officially released by volks? This subject is very grey for me.

 

That is an awesome question! Since Volks wants you to mod your dolls and create your own characters then that makes it difficult to define what constitutes bootlegging... I think it's a matter of (mis)representation.

 

I would think a 'bootleg' would be anything that is represented to be a factory direct product or "official" Volks product sold on the secondary market that was not created wholly by the company.

 

Does that make sense? I am asking seriously... please help if you have thoughts on it!