Fake Dollfie Dreams?!

User F15alice has just posted via their Instagram that a recast Snow Miku has been spotted. It appears to be made from ABS. They have it up on their story highlights under the title DD recast.

https://instagram.com/f15dolls

 

It appears to be made from vinyl and we're not sure what it is

 

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=15429&start=40#p238987 and following posts.

User F15alice has just posted via their Instagram that a recast Snow Miku has been spotted. It appears to be made from ABS. They have it up on their story highlights under the title DD recast.

https://instagram.com/f15dolls

 

It appears to be made from vinyl and we're not sure what it is

 

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=15429&start=40#p238987 and following posts.

Ah, my apologies, I asked F15alice and they told me the Snow Miku was ABS, so I didn't think to look further into it. Thank you for redirecting me to the active discussion

I looked at ebay and found around 5 listings of that snow miku knockoff I really hope no one gets fooled and just buys it. Im assuming this means that wherever they are getting the doll from they can produce a few at a time? Its really disappointing if recasting dollfie dreams becomes a thing now.

Okay folks, it gets serious

On Taobao there are cheap chinese knockoffs of Snow Miku DD fullset.

 

Yes, You are reading it correctly - one can buy a fake DD Miku fullset under 100$.

The quality is bad, the color is off, the joints are loose, the parts are smaller, but some people will buy this.

 

On the fb group https://www.facebook.com/groups/dollfiepalette/ the Dollfie Project shop owner (I think) bought one and there is a detailed comparison, unfortunately You need to be a member of this group to see it (I joined yesterday, not a big problem, just few hours to wait for acceptance).

I was still confused about whether it was truly a knockoff or not as there seemed to be conflicting reports on what it was and whether the cost was just a deposit or not, but regardless, I have noticed Volks have been making multiple announcements in japanese, English and Chinese about the dangers of buying DDs from unlicensed vendors, and that definitely seems to be in response to this.

I joined the group cos I'm curious to see those comparison pics, although obviously can't say much about it at the moment without seeing it.

 

...to be honest, I'm also confused why of all DDs its Snow Miku. I would have expected regular Miku, or one of the really rare ones (but I guess that would be too obvious?)

...to be honest, I'm also confused why of all DDs its Snow Miku. I would have expected regular Miku, or one of the really rare ones (but I guess that would be too obvious?)

I've been thinking that since this came up and almost posted it before. Regular Miku sure but why Snow Miku?

 

Some kind of odd choice to be popular but not too high profile? That's all I could think of.

 

I saw the posts in English on the volks_dd twitter earlier. They link to a page with more information:

https://www.volks.co.jp/image/blog_nest/02_1894.jpg

 

• 
   
  
• Regarding Illegal Copies of Super Dollfie®, Dollfie Dream®, and Other Related Products
   
  Recently, we have been receiving a lot of reports regarding illegal copies of our original items, “Super Dollfie® (SD),” “Dollfie Dream® (DD),” and other related products.
   
  SD, DD, and other related products are produced solely by Volks Inc. and only sold at Volks stores and official retailers.
   
  Any products sold outside of these avenues are not guaranteed official products.
   
   
  
• Regarding Copies of Super Dollfie® and Dollfie Dream®
   
  We have received many reports about stores that carry copied (re-cast) SD and DD.
   
  Copied items are not only blatantly sold as re-cast items, but may also be sold as if they are official products.
   
  Either way, these products are all illegal.
  These illegal items are not covered in any way by our warranty.
   
  Also, please be aware that if you import illegal copies of trademarked items, it is possible that they will be seized at customs.
   
  Please be careful about these products.
   
   
  
• Contacting Us about Illegal Products
   
  It is painful for us as well to see our customers who have interest in our SD and DD be upset by encountering these illegal products.
   
  Please contact us at the email address below if you find illegal copies of Super Dollfie®, Dollfie Dream®, and their related products.
   
  Please understand that we may not be able answer each single question about illegal products, nor can we offer any kind of authentication services.
   
  [ Volks Inc. Doll Design Department ]
  Email: imos@volks.co.jp
   
  Thank you for your continued support of our products. We appreciate it very much.
  We will keep working on to deliver an even better hobby life to our customers.
   
  We thank you for your future support of us and our products.

 

I get they can't really endorse any specific resale stores, but I think it's unfortunate with statements like this:

 

There are many counterfeit products which are sold as Dollfie Dream® at the other online stores (not VOLKS official Website Store), at auction, or at second-hand stores.

Mandarake and Jungle sell only legit products and it's unfortunate they may end up being grouped together with places selling counterfeit trash.

There are many counterfeit products which are sold as Dollfie Dream® at the other online stores (not VOLKS official Website Store), at auction, or at second-hand stores.

Mandarake and Jungle sell only legit products and it's unfortunate they may end up being grouped together with places selling counterfeit trash.

 

I think they have to avoid endorsing because simply put accidents can happen. What if one of the shops of Mandarake accepted a recast SD (and do not realize it) and sell it? They can't guarantee to their customers that these places will FOR SURE never, ever make a mistake. It is a way to protect themselves because in that situation it is gonna be on Volks cause they endorsed the shop (and obviously on Mandarake).

 

Also probably easier to not endorse anyone. If you do one I'm sure a lot of companies would want the same and simply put Volks doesn't have the time to research and make sure that they only sell authentic SD, DD, or other Volks related products.

I opened this thread thinking, gawd it's from 2011 we're still talking about this?

...

oh crap.

 

Unfortunately people will fall for this, but as a business it seems to just be a way to scam people out of money. If they make enough money they could invest making passable knockoffs, but materials and tooling is still expensive for vinyl dolls. I think their goal would be to keep scamming people buying off of eBay and Taobao with fake fullsets rather than setting up a counterfeit doll shop.

My request to join that facebook group was approved so I got to see the pics. I'm honestly really surprised it does have a skeleton. I always thought if a bootleg DD came about, it would just be the heads recasted in resin and stuck on some random resin recast bodies, or a body like a giant figma.

Apparently its made of harder ABS, so it isnt soft like vinyl. The comparison of the heads showed how different they are too - the bootleg Miku is also a lot smaller, and kinda narrower maybe?

 

It's nothing that would fool most people on this forum, but it could - and likely will- fool newbies, especially if they are googling 'buy dollfie dream cheap'. And that makes me really angry.

 

Ugh I 'cant wait' for a whole subculture with a victim complex to pop up around these things like with bjd recasts, and paint us all as elitist meanies for shunning them...

'buy dollfie dream cheap'.

 

I'd sell them next to my inventory of ultra lightweight black holes, and my large selection of politicians who compulsively tell the truth.

Apparently its made of harder ABS, so it isnt soft like vinyl. The comparison of the heads showed how different they are too - the bootleg Miku is also a lot smaller, and kinda narrower maybe?

[...]

Ugh I 'cant wait' for a whole subculture with a victim complex to pop up around these things like with bjd recasts, and paint us all as elitist meanies for shunning them...

 

I think it's vinyl, but different kind (harder than Volks')

IIRC Danny mentioned the vinyl shrinkage during the molding. For the vinyl molds he had to make the prototypes a few percent bigger.

If the bootleg mold was made from the original Miku head, the copy will be smaller.

 

And yes, I think we will see the owners of these "if it's the same, why pay more" things. Sooner or later.

'buy dollfie dream cheap'.

 

I'd sell them next to my inventory of ultra lightweight black holes, and my large selection of politicians who compulsively tell the truth.

For people new to the hobby though its one of the first questions they often ask. They see the price tag and immediately want to know how to get one with at least one less zero. Its how recasts have managed to spread so much with BJD, because recast sites come right up when one googles '[doll company] [doll sculpt].', or even just 'buy bjd'. For people even newer than that, they might not even know how much they're supposed to cost, because 'why would a doll cost that much?'

And when they're using actual official photos instead of the photos of the fake they're selling, it will be even easier for newbies to fall for.

 

Obviously this is still early days and getting really worried may be premature, but it still bothers me to think about what this could lead to.

'buy dollfie dream cheap'.

 

I'd sell them next to my inventory of ultra lightweight black holes, and my large selection of politicians who compulsively tell the truth.

For people new to the hobby though its one of the first questions they often ask. They see the price tag and immediately want to know how to get one with at least one less zero.

 

I don't doubt that. I just couldn't resist humor calling out the general absurdity of a cheap DD.

 

I'd been in figure collecting long enough, including 1/4 figures which are very pricey, that I never really questioned the cost associated with DD. They're bigger than a 1/4, they can be posed, they have clothing as opposed to sculpted vinyl / resin, removable wigs, poseable and changeable eyes, changeable busts, and often have character specific accessories. I kind of got the price immediately, but I totally understand that I'm not exactly normal.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Guest

Ugh I 'cant wait' for a whole subculture with a victim complex to pop up around these things like with bjd recasts, and paint us all as elitist meanies for shunning them...

I don't know, I don't see them selling a lot of these. Making knock off resin BJDs is easy; just mix a convincing quality of resin and replicate to profit. You can make counterfeit dolls of any BJD you want. These require much more manual labor to make if they have skeletons, plus they have no value without a fullset and painted face to sell (few look for DD bodies, and if people want those they don't cost that much for how much better it is). So I think these are made primarily to make knock off licensed merchandise, like fake PVC figures.

 

OTOH I haven't seen the pics so I could be wrong and we're all going to die

Ugh I 'cant wait' for a whole subculture with a victim complex to pop up around these things like with bjd recasts, and paint us all as elitist meanies for shunning them...

 

We were already elitist meanines for buying Volks in the first place to them.

 

Honestly, I'm just hoping this will be Figma-style bootlegging. They'll get their knockoff Miku, all the joints will snap off in a week, and this will die out when word gets around. I just can't picture them putting in the effort to make a skeleton that isn't going to basically fall apart within the first 6 months. That just doesn't seem cost efficient for a bootlegger.

 

Honestly, now I'm just worried about the forum. If we're really gonna have to have the "Are we recast friendly or not?" talk. because I always hate those. And I did have to leave another forum over their decision on that one before.

Honestly, now I'm just worried about the forum. If we're really gonna have to have the "Are we recast friendly or not?" talk.

Seems pretty clear. This is specifically a (Volks) Dollfie Dream forum, with a few notable exceptions in their various subtopics. Any type of knock off would not be a Volks Dollfie Dream and therefore be off topic.

Seems pretty clear. This is specifically a (Volks) Dollfie Dream forum, with a few notable exceptions in their various subtopics. Any type of knock off would not be a Volks Dollfie Dream and therefore be off topic.

 

A very cogent logical argument.

Ok, I have pics for everyone to see. These are not my photos, I took them from a Discord chat I am part of.

 

Here's the torsos. The fake is on the left and is not as squishy as the Volks.

 

fakedd1 by Billy Bennett, on Flickr

 

Fake head on the left.

 

fakedd2 by Billy Bennett, on Flickr

 

And here's the skeleton. THIS is what scares me. As with the other pics, the fake is on the left. It's really hard to see how it differs from the Volks one. The vinyl/PVC is definitely a different color tho.

 

fakedd3 by Billy Bennett, on Flickr

 

And as for this:

 

Honestly, now I'm just worried about the forum. If we're really gonna have to have the "Are we recast friendly or not?" talk.

Seems pretty clear. This is specifically a (Volks) Dollfie Dream forum, with a few notable exceptions in their various subtopics. Any type of knock off would not be a Volks Dollfie Dream and therefore be off topic.

 

I agree with K2. A fake is a fake and only does one thing to this hobby.... it damages it. Fakes will NOT be allowed here unless they are pictured and used as a tutoring tool to show how it differs from a real Volks DD girl. Anything else will not be allowed. Period.

 

 

 

 

Billy

That's significantly better than I expected. With the exception of the face, from the pictures alone I wouldn't know which was the real one without being told. It would have been a non-trivial investment to do this, and it's using the real frame so there's significant manual labor involved (look at all those screws). I know mass producing things like doll clothing is easy in China if you have connections to the manufacturing sector (and they don't have to be perfect clones of Volk's patterns), but these dolls still have to cost quite a bit to make, and they'd want to sell a lot of them. Or worse, charge roughly the same and con people into thinking they bought a full price Volks product.

 

If they produce a lot, this will wreak havoc on the second-hand market.

I agree with K2. A fake is a fake and only does one thing to this hobby.... it damages it. Fakes will NOT be allowed here unless they are pictured and used as a tutoring tool to show how it differs from a real Volks DD girl. Anything else will not be allowed. Period.

 

 

 

 

Billy

 

That's a relief to hear. I obviously agree with that as well lol. So I'm glad you've cleared that up quickly.

 

But yeah...that internal frame is really concerning. At least the color does seem to be pretty distinguishable. I'm still really hoping these don't catch on.

Perhaps this is why Volks has a new body/frame.

I was thinking about that. DDIII is ~7 years old. Would patents have expired on it in any way?

A U.S. utility patent is generally granted for 20 years from the date the patent application is filed; however, periodic fees are required to maintain the enforceability of the patent. A design patent is generally granted protection for 14 years measured from the date the design patent is granted.

 

A U.S. trademark generally lasts as long as the trademark is used in commerce and defended against infringement.

 

Copyright protection is for a limited term. For works created after January 1, 1978, copyrights last for 70 years after the death of the author. For works "made for hire" (covering the usual type of work owned by a small business), the copyright lasts for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.

 

A trade secret can be protected indefinitely as long as the secret is commercially valuable, its value derives from the fact that it is secret, and the owner take reasonable precautions to maintain its secrecy.

So scary. It looks so real. I certainly would be fool. I have a big desire to own a Sasara, so if she would have pop out at a low price I would have buy it because I was sure making fake DD was impossible. I have bought second hand DD bodies, and heads before and never question anything. Now I will be very doubtful if I decide to buy a second hand DD from other sites beside DD forum or DoA.

It looks like Volks now has a specific notice about this Snow Miku.

 

https://www.volks.co.jp/page.jsp?id=317625&version=jp#en