DDs and Den of Angels...

Im still teetering on the decision. I, myself, havent had anything negative said about my girl in the forum and even got a coat made for her last year by one of the members.

On only negative parts, if any really, is that gnawing feel of elitism and funny comments. "why doesnt she have a wig? Oh thats just her oversized boobs, pervert lol."

I was going to put this in the off-topic section, but I thought that this needed to be more visible.

 

Den of Angels is currently down for maintenance until Nov 7th, but they have a small part of the site still open. Just this morning I saw that they had put up a poll concerning possible revision of the types of dolls that should be on-topic there, and the question of whether vinyls, specifically Dollfie Dreams, should remain or be removed was part of the poll.

 

Dollfie Dreams have a long history in the BJD hobby, and though we now have several places other than DoA (namely here and figure(dot)fm if it ever comes back) to talk about them, I think it's important that they remain "grandfathered in" on the largest BJD forum on the 'net. I think if we lost the ability to talk about them openly over there, we'd be losing a valuable resource.

 

So if you have a DoA account, get over there and vote!

 

(BTW, if you don't currently have a DoA account and have been wanting one, now's your chance. Open registration will start once they get the forum back up and will run til the end of November.)

 

Sorry if this isn't in the right place, Averis, but DDs need to be championed!

 

 

I already vote for DDs to stay on topic

 

But to be honest I don't like much the DD forum in DoA. Mostly because the people there all they want to talk about is about character DDs or the very expensive DDs. I tried to post pictures of my Panchita there but I always feel ignore. I have seen this with other custom DDs too. The people in the DD forum in DoA really doesn't care much for the custom DDs (besides us the people who own them). I like the DD site here better because everybody doesn't care only about the DD characters dolls but here everybody is very friendly towards custom DDs too.

 

I like DoA because I mostly use it to post about my resin kids and is a place where I can interact with other Resin bjd owners. But I spend most of my time on flickr, figure fm (Which I don't get and hate the new version), and here posting about my Panchita

So... Today.. After my post on DOA, putting my two cents in on their vote. I got a pm from the moderator who had posted the question in the first place. This person, assured me that DD's aren't going anywhere. She (For argument sake) also said that the moderators there get a lot of flac from doll owners complaining about DD's, but that the moderators have no problem with them at all. She also stated some of the mods are DD owners themselves. Though, she did state that as many have pointed out.. DD's no longer really fit the idea of a BJD, but with their common ancestory it's a moot point really.

 

I can post the reply, but honestly I think the summation is good enough unless people want to see it.

 

Tsun-chan

I voted in favor of keeping the DD.

 

I have posted a little in the MDD thread and maybe two others so I feel like I belong to a tiny part of the forums. Without it I don't know if I would really attempt to be on DOA even though I hope to someday have the 3 or 4 BJD I have been drooling over. For me BJD and DD are connected and booting the DD just because they are made slightly differently seems just silly to me. Many BJD are similar in size and shape as the DD, but if people reject them because of the head sculpt, shouldn't they restrict more of the ugly BJD then? (I don't truly mean it, I'm just making a point.)

 

It's really hard to feel like I have anything to say over there without being annoying. I find it hard to navigate the threads in the minimal free time I have and post to get my count up to unlock more of the forums. Could someone post a link to the DD thread over there (once it's available) for those of us who don't know where it is? I really wanted to see DOA because of all the tutorials and whatnot but I still feel like I've just got my nose past the bars on the locked gate. Sure I could be one of those people who posts a lot and really have nothing to say, but that's not my style. It is a completely different issue if anyone else thinks I have anything important to say.

 

I'm still trying to discover the threads I can access that are even remotely something I have a few thoughts to post about. As Baldylox said, DOA isn't easy to navigate and rather user unfrendily.

 

~Sister Kyoya

Not a member, so can't vote, but I am a bit confused. Aren't DDs dolls? And don't they have some ball joints? So how are they not BJDs? They are even Asian, as, last I knew, Japan was still a part of Asia... Sure, they're not strung or resin, but the term is BJDs or Ball Jointed dolls, NOT SRBJDs, which to me would be a sub-set of BJDs. I can understand a forum for specific dolls, or dolls of a specific company. You want to make a Soul Doll forum? Sure, it makes sense to exclude DDs and Pullips, and whatever else from that, but DOA advertises itself as being a community for BJDs, not BJDs from these specific companies.

 

Plus, I guess I also just don't get what there is to be elitist over in these communities. Does the fact that resin dolls break easier somehow make them superior? If, not, what are the points that one would raise as to why one would be better than the other. I guess to me they are all dolls, they are almost all expensive, they're all relatively rare, and people who don't collect dolls still look at you funny when you carry them around, regardless of what they're made of.

 

I guess, looking back on this post, it pretty well sums up why I almost exclusively stick to this forum, the people here are almost all awesome people, and don't seem to judge you on what kind of dolls you like, or look down on certain dolls. In fact, even though this IS supposed to be a specialized forum, and would be well within your rights to disallow ANY posts of non-DD dolls, you still give a little space for the others to play. Also, this is the easiest to navigate doll forum I've seen. MUCH better than either the past or current Figure.fm, niether version of which can I make heads or tails of...

Out of topic here, but this bugged me is Sister kyoya any relation to Ravendruid?!!

Out of topic here, but this bugged me is Sister kyoya any relation to Ravendruid?!!

 

They're married. That's why you'll see their dolls together in pictures a lot.

Well, I'm voting to keep DD's on DoA.

I don't think I would've known about DD if I hadn't been hanging around on DoA so much. I managed to recruit a few folks to this forum from DoA as well - not just in the DD thread, but from folks who PM'd me to ask about DD or SQ-Labs dolls. And I've gotten some great DD outfits from the marketplace- if DD goes off-topic, they wouldn't be a searchable keyword anymore. The DD community there is small but lately very active, and I've never gotten any negative comments from anyone else there about DD. I also got to see my first DD and MDD in person through an event organized on DoA.

I know they have some pretty arbitrary rules about topicality, so I'd love to see the forum open up to even more types of BJD - not just asian-style strung resin with removable eyes and ankle joints or whatever. In any case, it certainly doesn't hurt to have more ways for folks to discover and enjoy vinyl bjd.

Out of topic here, but this bugged me is Sister kyoya any relation to Ravendruid?!!

 

They're married. That's why you'll see their dolls together in pictures a lot.

 

And why our avatars are 2 halves of the same picture I drew.

 

/on-topic

 

Does anyone know why they posted the poll if they weren't intending on changing the DD's granfathered status? Is it just to keep people entertained while the forums are down? It seems a bit like a troll-ish move.

 

~Sister Kyoya

It must be like the electoral college. We all get to vote, but they do whatever they want to anyhow 9_9

Not a member, so can't vote, but I am a bit confused. Aren't DDs dolls? And don't they have some ball joints? So how are they not BJDs? They are even Asian, as, last I knew, Japan was still a part of Asia... Sure, they're not strung or resin, but the term is BJDs or Ball Jointed dolls, NOT SRBJDs, which to me would be a sub-set of BJDs. I can understand a forum for specific dolls, or dolls of a specific company. You want to make a Soul Doll forum? Sure, it makes sense to exclude DDs and Pullips, and whatever else from that, but DOA advertises itself as being a community for BJDs, not BJDs from these specific companies.

 

Plus, I guess I also just don't get what there is to be elitist over in these communities. Does the fact that resin dolls break easier somehow make them superior? If, not, what are the points that one would raise as to why one would be better than the other. I guess to me they are all dolls, they are almost all expensive, they're all relatively rare, and people who don't collect dolls still look at you funny when you carry them around, regardless of what they're made of.

 

I guess, looking back on this post, it pretty well sums up why I almost exclusively stick to this forum, the people here are almost all awesome people, and don't seem to judge you on what kind of dolls you like, or look down on certain dolls. In fact, even though this IS supposed to be a specialized forum, and would be well within your rights to disallow ANY posts of non-DD dolls, you still give a little space for the others to play. Also, this is the easiest to navigate doll forum I've seen. MUCH better than either the past or current Figure.fm, niether version of which can I make heads or tails of...

 

 

 

This, I like.

Not a member, so can't vote, but I am a bit confused. Aren't DDs dolls? And don't they have some ball joints? So how are they not BJDs?

 

This is the double standarding that some people have already mentioned.

 

The local (finnish) version of Den of angels had a very blatant example of it, by allowing pullips on their board, but not dollfie dreams. While quoting Den of angels criteria as what was allowed and what was not.

 

It even went so far as when one of their active members was giving a lecture on ABJs at an anime convention that underlined the main problem atleast locally: "Volks dollfie dreams are not allowed, because they dont meet the Den of angels criteria, and even if they did -- they still dont count."

 

That being said I know of discussion threads on the local version where they wonder why there is such distaste for the Dollfie dream so the feeling apparently is not universal, but as this "ambassador" for the board stated her case, I dont feel much love for the local board, and as a result I wouldnt go to den of angels, the main board or local version to discuss a resin doll if I ever happen to get one.

 

If the current den of angels criteria is that the doll has to be stringed, then its pretty clear cut.

 

But I still think having a preasence there, if only to be able to direct to places where much more detailed discussion is possible is a good thing. So vote if you can.

finnleo, DD have always been allowed on DoA [up to now]. heck they even allow Obitsu including spinoffs like VMF50. it's just that there is an elitist minority who have a strong distaste for "Those Anime Dolls" (actual quote) - and i think they campaign to get DD removed from DoA.

 

that said, most/many people on DoA are simply not interested in anything but ABJDs/resin dolls/whatever you want to call them. that is why i come to this forum (at least, one reason why).

 

edit: to say there's nothing wrong with only being interested in resin BJD, i just don't like people who discriminate...or try to cause some kind of division between people who should *share* common interests...

 

there is also a sexual ("perverted") stigma that is attached to DD somehow (it has been brought up on DoA many times), even when BJD can be just as "lewd" in their designs if you look at it from that perspective.

 

this is going on a tangent but this stigma probably stems from the fact that most BJD owners are female and most DD owners are male (this is just an observation, from a female who owns both, but i believe it to hold some truth despite not having evidence to back it up, so take it as you will)

Edited November 3, 2012 by Guest

"We're not intending to make DD off-topic. "

 

In case someone hasn't quoted DoA's facebook page.

finnleo, DD have always been allowed on DoA [up to now]. heck they even allow Obitsu including spinoffs like VMF50. it's just that there is an elitist minority who have a strong distaste for "Those Anime Dolls" (actual quote) - and i think they campaign to get DD removed from DoA.

 

that said, most/many people on DoA are simply not interested in anything but ABJDs/resin dolls/whatever you want to call them. that is why i come to this forum (at least, one reason why).

 

yes, I know that dollfie dream discussion is allowed on the actual den of angels board, while in limited fashion.

 

I was talking about the local finnish version of it which is a totally different forum, but they quote den of angels rules, and while doing so make the problems more evident.

 

EDIT: So is this this like talking about apples and oranges? yes and no, because while this person was mainly talking in behalf of the local forum, she managed to ruin DoA in my eyes because of implying these were the rules of Den of angels.

 

EDIT2: But major respect for the actual DoA moderators if they are dollfie dream owners and have to take stick from dissaproving people.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Guest

there is also a sexual ("perverted") stigma that is attached to DD somehow (it has been brought up on DoA many times), even when BJD can be just as "lewd" in their designs if you look at it from that perspective

 

:0. Its coming together....

 

 

I made my vote already. I said keep it in, shouldnt care what others think of me and Kihona. Not sure if Im just being naive though.

"We're not intending to make DD off-topic. "

 

In case someone hasn't quoted DoA's facebook page.

 

and 72% of replies are in favor of keeping DDs.

 

Keep voting folks, for anyone who posts there.

 

The vinyls shall have their day...

I of course voted to keep them on topic

 

My experience on DoA has been nothing out of the ordinary. Though it's probably because when I go onto DoA I usually do a lot more reading than actual posting. The only times I post are on topics I find interesting (that will garner no conflict) and on the thread for Dollfie Dreams. And like many people I use the marketplace to search for DDs and DD Clothes/Items though so far I've only ever bought one thing from a member there. The meet up thread there is also great for meeting up with more locals in my area even if they don't collect DDs. I get my DD fill from all the DD meets I arrange hehe~

 

So far I've been to 2 meet ups through DoA and had a lovely time at both of them, though the first one was before I even got Momoko Every hobby has those that will be elitist, you just have to learn to ignore those individuals who would try to ruin your good time. I've been lucky thus far in not having encountered anyone like that.

 

I like many others will always be very grateful to Averis for creating this lovely community for us to share our lovely girls with one another

there is also a sexual ("perverted") stigma that is attached to DD somehow (it has been brought up on DoA many times), even when BJD can be just as "lewd" in their designs if you look at it from that perspective.

 

Considering that many of the character DDs made by Volks are based on Eroge characters, I can see where that comes from. Even though many of those characters have broken out of the game and into mainstream anime, they still appeal to a certain subset of the market. That being said, a lot of DD owners have branched out to more creative custom dolls, so many of the things that resin owners do with their dolls are now also being done with DDs.

 

I still visit DoA on occasion to browse the marketplace. There are often a lot of good deals on things, even if not everything matches my taste. I've bought a few wigs and outfits from users there recently, especially to dress the newest member of my family.

 

Which makes me wonder, how will DoA react to the SQLab bodies? They're fully resin and strung, but have anime style heads. I'm sure there will be head exploding...

DOA already had an SQlab discussion thread that I was part of, and the body seemed to be considered positive. Unfortunately, not many SQ lab dolls have made their way to owners on DOA yet, so there haven't been many pictures posted at all. I imagine they will be getting atleast one database thread soon enough.

there is also a sexual ("perverted") stigma that is attached to DD somehow (it has been brought up on DoA many times), even when BJD can be just as "lewd" in their designs if you look at it from that perspective.

 

I've met a few people who really do have that opinion of them.

 

I can clearly understand how that came about, but BJD have things like what wonderful Spiritdoll created for their male bodies, or a forum like controversialdoll, which has entire forum sections made for those to post their dolls having sex (thus its name)...yes, we are the only perverts here! :'D

 

DOA already had an SQlab discussion thread that I was part of, and the body seemed to be considered positive. Unfortunately, not many SQ lab dolls have made their way to owners on DOA yet, so there haven't been many pictures posted at all. I imagine they will be getting at least one database thread soon enough.

 

I actually did inquire about if it was okay to make a discussion thread for them on DoA before I did so, and they seemed to allow it.

You know, you could just make one? I mean, nothing is holding anyone back from making a Database for them, disregarding their current downtime. They don't set a limit for how many dolls have to be posted in order to have one. I made the initial discussion thread, but seeing as I never post in database I didn't bother with it.

there is also a sexual ("perverted") stigma that is attached to DD somehow (it has been brought up on DoA many times), even when BJD can be just as "lewd" in their designs if you look at it from that perspective

 

I already posted about this on Tumblr where one confession said that DDs are disgusting and hideous because they are for perverts etc.

 

I only said that I personally see absolutely NO difference between a male person that has a horde of naked DDs that show off their big boobs and have sex all the time (common stereotype) and a female person that has a horde of male BJDs that are all gay and also do nothing but having sex all the time (also a common stereotype).

Sure both these types exist, but the majority of people just like collecting the dolls and adore their looks.

And if I get a DD for the cute look and pretty body it's the same if I get a BJD for its look and body.

People should really stop putting this strange double standard on DDs.

 

Does anyone know why they posted the poll if they weren't intending on changing the DD's granfathered status? Is it just to keep people entertained while the forums are down? It seems a bit like a troll-ish move.

 

~Sister Kyoya

 

Maybe to actually see what the majority thinks?

Just because you have a handful of people that complain that doesn't mean that hidden behind the silence you have not a majority that actually doesn't mind.

A poll is anonymous and quickly made, so everyone can freely say what's on their mind

And so they also asked the people that never have actually thought to say something about this topic before, since they were happy about the status quo anyway.

You usually hear the people that are not happy with the current state, since they complain and maybe even do this more than once, while all the happy people just remain silent.

 

I think that's actually the best move they could have done!

So they made sure that the complaining people are in fact a minority and that their decision to keep them grandfathered is backed up by a happy majority.

 

Which makes me wonder, how will DoA react to the SQLab bodies? They're fully resin and strung, but have anime style heads. I'm sure there will be head exploding...

 

i was the one who appealed the moderators to get VMF50 dolls "On topic" and they were approved on the basis "that they use the Obitsu body" despite having unique head sculpts. I was told that if the the body "were to change significantly" the dolls would go offtopic.

 

so it seems body is the highly determining factor.

 

ironic because here (i believe) it is the reverse, if you have a DD head it is on topic even if the body is not DD.

 

edit: regarding the sexual/perversion stigma, the posters above me reinforced the point i was trying to make very well. i think doll collectors and their prerogatives are too varied - the stereotypes exist, but when you get down to it, you can find a person in every subset of doll collecting who is "guilty"... but guilty of what? i am not focused on doll sex or sexualizing dolls but it doesn't harm anybody and therefore i see little wrong in it if that is the person's motive (as long as they aren't pushing it on others or parading it around in an inappropriate manner/where minors might see it/etc)

 

that said, there are some ABJD collectors who think DDs are "gross" "disgusting" "for perverts" etc....these people i cannot stand any more than a DD collector who would talk down about an ABJD in the same manner.

 

In my opinion, DoA can kiss my butt.

 

This

You know, you could just make one? I mean, nothing is holding anyone back from making a Database for them, disregarding their current downtime. They don't set a limit for how many dolls have to be posted in order to have one. I made the initial discussion thread, but seeing as I never post in database I didn't bother with it.

 

The downtime and my current wait on an order from SQ lab is all that keeps me from doing it, I assure you. I want to be able to start off the thread with a couple of sculpts to show, maybe 2 shots of each with different wigs/eyes.