The Morals Associated with Lotteries

You can see on yahoo auction a user named yakumo1941 selling 4 DD aoko aozaki...

 

 

I think that limited Pre-Order would be fairest system.

I'm going to visit his home overnight...

i saw that too he selling them for 120-130k per piece. someone should buy get his adres go over there and break his legs

You can see on yahoo auction a user named yakumo1941 selling 4 DD aoko aozaki...

 

 

I think that limited Pre-Order would be fairest system.

I'm going to visit his home overnight...

 

 

That's insanely frustrating !!!

/start OT

 

First, I would like to point out that everyone keeps saying US, when VolksUSA is open to all North America. So while KL and WLD are US exclusive, they're the only ones, and each get a very small number of dolls. There are lots of Canadian collectors, and even a few from Mexico, that all benefit from the store in Torrance.

 

Second, we have NO IDEA how Volks conducts it's actual drawing of names for lotteries. There seem to be some trends (1st timers, putting in your entry very early or very late, etc), but nothing definitive has been discovered. It's a well guarded secret (at least I think it is... feel free to make me eat crow! XD). So multiple entries might help chances, or hurt them, depending on the cirbleepstances.

 

Third, the reason we have a US store and US retailers is because a group of people busted their humps and got involved with Volks. They showed them how large the BJD community was in North America, and the Volks fanbase, and that it was a relatively low risk gamble for them to open up a store here. Heck, we even used to have DollPas! Sadly, they went away due to some truly immoral individuals (large lot of one-off dolls were stolen in NY before a DollPa). But the retailers and store remain, because there is profit to be made, and it increases their fanbase. Moral of the story: Those that want a European based Volks store, band together and get Volks to notice. They will go where the money is (and international law allows).

 

Fourth... for those getting upset that the US seems to get unfair advantage, I want to ask how many of you have joined group orders, or asked friends to help you enter the lottery or buy things from VolksUSA over the last couple of years because it was so much cheaper than buying directly from Volks in Japan? Until the price increase, it was very frustrating to never be able to find even basic items because the store was stripped bare each time it was restocked.

 

And how many of you have asked someone to send you items that have been marked down on customs forms, which is technically illegal and can get you and the shipper into serious trouble? It's also a huge risk for the shipper, as they can't claim the true worth of the item if it goes missing in the mail.

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel for those that have to pay outrageous customs fees on top of an already expensive doll. But I hope you also feel sympathetic for those of us who've had to deal with a miserable USD exchange rate for the last couple of years. The EUR, GBP, AUD,... heck, even the CAD have all taken their licks, but have come out better than the USD. I dare say that gives you a bit more leverage and buying power when it comes to this hobby.

 

Oh, and you have to remember that people who live in California and buy from VolksUSA, or people who live in Texas and buy from Kerbey Lane (like me), wind up having to pay 8-10% tax (I don't know what WLD does). Not a big deal on small stuff, but on a $800 doll, it starts to add up.

 

/end OT

 

Personally, I usually only enter once per lottery for the doll I want (and I have to want her, I don't enter to flip them). I've only asked someone to enter on my behalf one time, and that was for Natsuki v2, as I was very desperate to get her. But I kept worrying the whole time about being able to afford two dolls if both entries won, because I feel financially responsible for each entry I make. Sure, it's usually easy enough to pass a win on to someone else, but what if it takes a while? I have to be able to pay Volks/the other person (unless they decide to make their own arrangements).

 

I don't really have a problem with multiple entries, because if I do win more than one doll, I will be helping my community by giving someone in it a second chance to grab her for near retail (I'd don't do account swaps, so shipping to me would have to be covered by the buyer). And that's one less doll in a scalper's hands.

 

While more than 3 entries seems excessive to me, and tends to prick my ire a bit, I have to sit back and remember that I can't judge someone for something that I would possibly do myself given the right cirbleepstances.

 

As for entering for someone else, I'm ok to do it as long as I'm not after the doll myself, and I feel like I know and trust the person pretty well. This is a lot of money to get in a tight spot over, so I'm not keen to do it for just any random stranger.

 

I do feel that Volks needs to up their doll numbers. I get the whole desire to keep them exclusive, but as the customer base grows, so too should their production, to keep the percentages the same. Otherwise you're going to wind up alienating a good portion of the people trying to throw money at you, and that's never smart.

 

Holy TL:DR, Batman!

Holy Double Posts, Batman!

Edited January 15, 2013 by Guest

I send a screenshot to volks but i think they are already aware about this.

 

Let's make a petition :"Aoko and Melty V2, on pre-order".

I don't really have a problem with multiple entries, because if I do win more than one doll, I will be helping my community by giving someone in it a second chance to grab her for near retail (I'd don't do account swaps, so shipping to me would have to be covered by the buyer). And that's one less doll in a scalper's hands.

 

I do like your view on winning multiple dolls - to help the community instead of a scalper.

While more than 3 entries seems excessive to me, and tends to prick my ire a bit, I have to sit back and remember that I can't judge someone for something that I would possibly do myself given the right cirbleepstances.

 

After being all over the spectrum on this issue, I think this is where it really falls for me. For a while I wanted to point out a part of the overall issue that wasn't covered so far. What about the people who purposely don't enter lotteries, with the hope that it might give one extra chance for someone on the forums lucky enough to get a girl they desperately want. That's great and all to take the moral high road (on a high horse no less), but I still knew if there was a girl I couldn't ever imagine turning down in the lottery, I'd want my chance too. So, saying that someone is almost borderline evil for making an attempt is a bit odd in my mind. Especially when compared to scalpers, who actually make an effort to screw over the odds, only for their own benefit and could care less about the hobby itself. That's truly evil and greedy if you ask me.

 

I do feel that Volks needs to up their doll numbers. I get the whole desire to keep them exclusive, but as the customer base grows, so too should their production, to keep the percentages the same. Otherwise you're going to wind up alienating a good portion of the people trying to throw money at you, and that's never smart.

 

This is probably the bigger issue all together. If Volks had a larger number of dolls available, more people would be happy and would be helping support the business/hobby that they love but also it would give scalpers less power. This is a hobby I pursue for fun.

 

Body/part shortages = not fun.

Impossible odds = not fun.

Hunting limited girls after the fact = can be fun, or extended punishment (this is a draw.)

Having to sell off organs to get overpriced said doll because there were so few in the first place = not fun.

Ending up with a girl that is perfect (for whatever reason) = worth all the pain and suffering.

Having people turn away from the hobby because it's too hard to get into = not fun and discouraging to boot.

Shopping = LOADS of fun.

 

Personally I don't expect Volks to overproduce just to get people to buy (aka Mattel ) but seriously, I think they are underestimating how much their customer base is growing and they could be stunting their business in the future because of it.

 

~Sister Kyoya

I send a screenshot to volks but i think they are already aware about this.

 

Let's make a petition :"Aoko and Melty V2, on pre-order".

As much as I love them, I don't think it's a good idea.

 

Definitely do not want Volks turning into another Ty or Mattel.

And Volks is already having problems with supply, the demand for those dolls will make it extremely difficult to get other things done/make new dolls.

 

Higher chances to win/more dolls made? Yes.

More local shops? Yes.

Something to cut down on scalpers? Yes.

 

Limiteds are needed to keep interest up. After all, having "unicorns" makes the hobby exciting and interesting. If your doll was something that anyone could have got, then it wouldn't be as special anymore.

I've never entered a lottery, but wouldn't mind making a couple extra accounts or asking a friend to enter if i really wanted a girl for myself. If I ever won more than one girl, and i couldn't afford to keep her, I'd just give up my ticket and let volks draw someone else. You never know, my giving up could be the reason you got drawn instead of someone else.

 

Aside from that, I can't see a problem with purchasing an extra girl to flip or trade, if it helps bring home a unicorn.

 

My view on it is this: If your name gets picked, you've still got to pay for that doll. If you don't someone else gets picked. If the selection process is random your name just may not have gotten picked. There are people that enter once and win, I'm sure there are people that enter 6 times and still don't win.

 

I'm totally with Sister Kyoya and everyone else that says Volks need to up their production numbers to balance out though. It's pretty competitive out there for these girls when they're sold and when they're on the second hand it just gets worse. That's a huge turn off.

 

My friend almost quit trying to get into this hobby when she couldn't even buy a body, because it was so competitive. On more than one occasion she would be in negotiations and the item would be sold out from under her because she had to go to work for a few hrs. That's just not cool, and I think Volks needs to actually look at that and try to alleviate some pressure.

 

And it would definitely take some steam out of the scalpers, because a scalper's lifeblood is demand. The higher the demand it is, the more people will be willing to pay for it if it's the only one out there. A scalper's worst enemy is supply because it creates competition.

personally I have no problem with multiple lotteries entry as long as you are not doing it as scalper. I love what Volks is doing now with their lotteries system I love limited dolls, if happen that I lost the draw I know what I must do... go on a diet and get a part time job.. the thrill, excitement and the saving up make me love doll and this hobby even more.

 

 

It might not be the best lottery system but just my opinion.

Limiteds are needed to keep interest up. After all, having "unicorns" makes the hobby exciting and interesting. If your doll was something that anyone could have got, then it wouldn't be as special anymore.

 

White Album Dollfie was on Pre-Ordrer, and i don't think their owner doesn't feel them special. DDYuki is very popular.

going to go against the trend here.

 

i only have one volks intl account and don't use family/friends to enter. i do use proxies though, and due to cost only enter a maximum of 3 times in the international lotteries (2 proxy, 1 my own).

 

personally, i don't see a problem with scalpers. there is supply and demand, and if there is enough demand (ie. someone willing to pay a higher than retail price) then that establishes the market price. if you really want it (and can afford it) you will pay the market price.

 

if i win more than one, i'm going to sell at market price. great, i can make money which i use to buy other things. i don't have any inclination of being 'nice' to random people on the internet just because we are in the same hobby. everything will be through an arm's length transaction (although i have waived paypal fees and relaxed other stuff as well).

 

this works both ways - if at some point volks releases a horrible dollfie which drops in price, and i've won 2 at lottery, i will still sell at market price even if it means a loss for me. if i miss out on a lottery dollfie that i really really want, i will pay the higher price if i think it's a reasonable aftermarket price.

 

it's just fundamental economics, unclouded by any sentimental feelings towards other hobbyists.

Limiteds are needed to keep interest up. After all, having "unicorns" makes the hobby exciting and interesting. If your doll was something that anyone could have got, then it wouldn't be as special anymore.

 

White Album Dollfie was on Pre-Ordrer, and i don't think their owner doesn't feel them special. DDYuki is very popular.

That's because Volks changed the face sculpt very late.

The original Yuki face was quite bad.

 

People saw how great her face sculpt was after she came out.

 

I don't really mind pre-orders. They are safer, but I guess loterries are more "exciting" and adds to the thrill of collecting DDs.

But re-releasing a limited doll is going to make people mad. Especially to those that paid a pretty penny for the doll. It really devalues the "collectibility" of the dolls and makes people hold off on purchases because "it's going to be re-released sooner or later".

People didn't burn their dollfie after the announcement of saber nero and saber alter v2.

 

You both sound like :"If my dollfie is worth peanuts, i won't love them".

 

Hey the average dollfie is already 500€.

 

And dollfie hobby isn't about money, it's more ... profound.

 

if i win more than one, i'm going to sell at market price. great, i can make money which i use to buy other things. i don't have any inclination of being 'nice' to random people on the internet just because we are in the same hobby. everything will be through an arm's length transaction (although i have waived paypal fees and relaxed other stuff as well).

Here. Take all my likes for the bold statement.

 

You may be nice to other people, but other people may not be nice to you. So why not? It does sound like "Hey I am doing this for you guys, but why aren't you guys doing it for me too as a favour?".

 

I experienced that first hand. Therefore I have to say, I fully support your statement. I don't need any more honest people because honest people never exist in the first place on the internet. Money runs this world, and so be it. You want to buy? Sure go on. I take your money and you got what you want. Business. The Chinese way.

 

IMHO, even though I don't quite like to stay in this hobby any more, but I love seeing how prices of dolls go up just to make them unique.

@figureitout & AntElitist:

 

You are, in many cases and even if you might not realize it, always in some way dependent of the kindness of others when you are in a hobby.

Be it when you ask for something as simple as a comparison (hell, how would you like it to instead get the answer "Well, buy the dolls to find it out") or looking at tutorials someone made for free, with their time, to be looked at by people in the hobby to help without expecting to get anything back except for maybe a "Thank you".

The nice people are actually the ones running the hobby, are the ones people know and look up to, not the unfriendly ones that are sitting high up their horses and demand others to kiss their feet.

 

Also ever thought that the reasons others might not be nice to you is because someone wasn't nice to them beforehand? It's a vicious-circle, and you are a part of it with that mind-set.

You can be a non-greedy seller without making a bad deal. There is more than just black and white, and at some point in your life, be it in a hobby or whatever else, you will wish you have been a friendlier and kind person, because you will reach the point where you need some "friendly idiot" to help you.

@figureitout & AntElitist:

 

You are, in many cases and even if you might not realize it, always in some way dependent of the kindness of others when you are in a hobby.

Be it when you ask for something as simple as a comparison (hell, how would you like it to instead get the answer "Well, buy the dolls to find it out") or looking at tutorials someone made for free, with their time, to be looked at by people in the hobby to help without expecting to get anything back except for maybe a "Thank you".

The nice people are actually the ones running the hobby, are the ones people know and look up to, not the unfriendly ones that are sitting high up their horses and demand others to kiss their feet.

 

Also ever thought that the reasons others might not be nice to you is because someone wasn't nice to them beforehand? It's a vicious-circle, and you are a part of it with that mind-set.

You can be anon-greedy seller without making a bad deal. There is more than just black and white, and at some point in your life, be it in a hobby or whatever else, you will wish you have been a more nicer, friendly and kind person, because you will reach the point where you need some "friendly idiot" to help you.

 

 

 

Thank you so much for the above. You put this so much more eloquently than I could have. I'm glad that we have articulate people here who have a grasp on how hobbies work and how that hobby reacts to the people in said hobby. I totally agree with everything you said above.

 

I've been in many hobbies in my day and overall, the DD community and hobby has been the least stressful and most pleasant of any of them. Hobbies are supposed to be FUN, not some competition or money pit that gives you no pleasure. Whether you have the girls to just be on display as large figures or you use them for photography, you are still in a hobby that is dynamic and relies on people to keep it alive and growing. Ignoring that will only make the hobby slowly wither and die.

 

 

Billy

This is a tangent to the topic at hand, but:

 

That's because Volks changed the face sculpt very late.

The original Yuki face was quite bad.

 

People saw how great her face sculpt was after she came out.

 

Does anyone have pictures of the first Yuki face?

@figureitout & AntElitist:

 

You are, in many cases and even if you might not realize it, always in some way dependent of the kindness of others when you are in a hobby.

Be it when you ask for something as simple as a comparison (hell, how would you like it to instead get the answer "Well, buy the dolls to find it out") or looking at tutorials someone made for free, with their time, to be looked at by people in the hobby to help without expecting to get anything back except for maybe a "Thank you".

The nice people are actually the ones running the hobby, are the ones people know and look up to, not the unfriendly ones that are sitting high up their horses and demand others to kiss their feet.

 

Also ever thought that the reasons others might not be nice to you is because someone wasn't nice to them beforehand? It's a vicious-circle, and you are a part of it with that mind-set.

You can be a non-greedy seller without making a bad deal. There is more than just black and white, and at some point in your life, be it in a hobby or whatever else, you will wish you have been a friendlier and kind person, because you will reach the point where you need some "friendly idiot" to help you.

 

Well thats true. i cant offer any help in dolls section but certainly i can help in advising in photography section. but one day you will realize how people just, doesnt appreciate other people kindness and tend to abuse it until they had lost something. its true thinking back *hey i wish i am a better person* but when you start to think about how the community is so stuck up and worse people STEAL your tut/advice and NOT GIVING credit *like certain stormstrooper* for own gain benefits then you will think, why isnt anymore helpful person in this world?

 

Well thats true. i cant offer any help in dolls section but certainly i can help in advising in photography section. but one day you will realize how people just, doesnt appreciate other people kindness and tend to abuse it until they had lost something. its true thinking back *hey i wish i am a better person* but when you start to think about how the community is so stuck up and worse people STEAL your tut/advice and NOT GIVING credit *like certain stormstrooper* for own gain benefits then you will think, why isnt anymore helpful person in this world?

 

I know how the world works, but it's your task to make it a better one and even more important not to become a bitter person.

You always have your idiots out there, but with being a good human being you can often prevent others to go the same route, some people just don't know better till you show them. The kindness and helpfulness of others personally made me realize that it's worth to give back this good feeling and share it.

 

I also had my work stolen more than once (heck, even pictures of my cat or myself??!), be it photos, tutorials or whatever. Yet I'm willing to share my work with others, because I know that many people like to see it or because (in case of tutorials, wiki entries and such) it helps them.

Also I want to give back something to the hobbies I was/am a part of, because more than once I needed their help, their tutorials, their time, their kindness to take comparison pictures for me etc., and I'm not one to greedily open my hand without giving something back.

A healthy community needs nice people, and I'm rather on the good and friendly then on the bitter side

 

@Baldylox:

Thanks for that nice comment, I really try my best

For me, lottery behavior -- and general behavior in the hobby -- is similar to free speech. I'm not going to actively stop trying someone from saying/doing something (unless it's clearly illegal), but that doesn't mean I won't quietly judge that person for what they've said or done.

 

I personally keep a "black list" of people I feel are scalpers (or similar behaviors), and I do not sell to, trade with, or buy from them.

 

So if I happen to win an extra girl? I would definitely pass her along to other folks in the hobby at-cost. But only the individuals who would do the same. If I think you've been scalping? Sorry, no. Go buy from another scalper. I'm not selling to you, not for any amount. Heck, three years down the road, when I realize she's no longer right for my collection and I sell her at market price? I'm still not selling to you, even if that means that I get less money for her.

 

That's just my personal policy, and I know it's not enough to significantly affect the hobby or the market in any way, but at the very least I can know that I'm not contributing to scalping or similar behaviors.

 

In short: everyone has the right to do what they want, but no one has the right to be free from the consequences of their behavior.

Also I want to give back something to the hobbies I was/am a part of, because more than once I needed their help, their tutorials, their time, their kindness to take comparison pictures for me etc., and I'm not one to greedily open my hand without giving something back.

A healthy community needs nice people, and I'm rather on the good and friendly then on the bitter side

 

I totally agree with this wholeheartedly. I don't view the people on these forums as random strangers, because they aren't. They are unique individuals that I've had the pleasure spending some time with, interacting with, and learning about for the last year. I didn't send off 30+ Christmas cards to random strangers, but to my friends and their girls. I leave nice comments and treat others with respect because it is how I would like to be treated in return. And as for anything on the internet, I know that anything I do is being released into the public domain, and I'm essentially freely giving it away (advice, tutorials, stories, ect.) Since DD are my hobby, I personally do like to think of other people in the hobby are like minded people and ones I'd like to know. If me abstaining from the lotteries by choice, and that chance is given to someone more deserving, or better yet someone new to the hobby, then it benefits the hobby as a whole. Those new people coming onto our forums see how nice people are treated here, and generally follow suit. In this case being nice really is it's own reward because our digital DD world/playground continues to be a fun place to visit.

 

~Sister Kyoya

 

I know how the world works, but it's your task to make it a better one and even more important not to become a bitter person.

You always have your idiots out there, but with being a good human being you can often prevent others to go the same route, some people just don't know better till you show them. The kindness and helpfulness of others personally made me realize that it's worth to give back this good feeling and share it.

 

I also had my work stolen more than once (heck, even pictures of my cat or myself??!), be it photos, tutorials or whatever. Yet I'm willing to share my work with others, because I know that many people like to see it or because (in case of tutorials, wiki entries and such) it helps them.

Also I want to give back something to the hobbies I was/am a part of, because more than once I needed their help, their tutorials, their time, their kindness to take comparison pictures for me etc., and I'm not one to greedily open my hand without giving something back.

A healthy community needs nice people, and I'm rather on the good and friendly then on the bitter side

 

@Baldylox:

Thanks for that nice comment, I really try my best

Well that's nice. The world needs more of you. Do make this world a better place.

 

After all, no one can please everybody except God Himself. So some people may not agree to the behaviour of multiple lottery entries and scalping, but truthfully, I have my reason of agreeing and I respect your reasoning as well. And I believe going into details of reasoning will lead to more personal grudges so I rest my case here. Cheers to you and your world!

I know how the world works, but it's your task to make it a better one and even more important not to become a bitter person.

You always have your idiots out there, but with being a good human being you can often prevent others to go the same route, some people just don't know better till you show them. The kindness and helpfulness of others personally made me realize that it's worth to give back this good feeling and share it.

 

I also had my work stolen more than once (heck, even pictures of my cat or myself??!), be it photos, tutorials or whatever. Yet I'm willing to share my work with others, because I know that many people like to see it or because (in case of tutorials, wiki entries and such) it helps them.

Also I want to give back something to the hobbies I was/am a part of, because more than once I needed their help, their tutorials, their time, their kindness to take comparison pictures for me etc., and I'm not one to greedily open my hand without giving something back.

A healthy community needs nice people, and I'm rather on the good and friendly then on the bitter side

 

This ^^

 

It can be easy to try to do everything possible to protect oneself from being hurt, or, once hurt, to try to lash out and hurt the other back. But this just causes more pain overall. Sure, there are bad people out there who will try to take advantage of you, but I believe that in the end, when I've died, I'll recieve much more comfort from being able to say "Sure a few people took advantage of me, but at least I did everything I could to leave the world a better place" than to say "Well, I may have left the world a bit colder, but at least nobody ever took advantage of me!" I'm always surprised that, as popular as "A Christmas Carol" is, that so few people really seem to take its message to heart.

 

I love that in this hobby, I have met so many people who at least seem to be truly caring and friendly. That's one of the biggest reasons I've stuck around. Even if all people share is knowledge or praise, it means a lot.

 

On a slightly different tangent, There are actually people in the hobby who view their DDs as commodities or investments? I have trouble wrapping my head around this. I can understand selling a doll if you just can't quite connect like you expected you would, but buying her specifically with the intent of selling her sometime in the future? Well, to each their own, I guess, I just have a hard time understanding the motivations of other people sometimes.