Doll collecting is "depraved?"

A curious title, I know, and the reason I don't have it in general DD discussion cause this is relevant to all dolls, not just DD. Warning, a bit of NSFW links in my post.

 

So, upon recently I was actually told that it was "depraved" to collect dolls. This came from a fellow figure collector. Now my logic is if you own something like say one of Native's newest girls (http://myfigurecollection.net/item/144481) or say Spready Mary (http://myfigurecollection.net/item/164218) then that'd fit your description, but he countered that no "figures are figures, but dolls are just a step too far." Now I want someone to help me understand this logic.

 

What makes a doll seem "too far" for an outsider of the hobby? Obviously, we don't have these hang ups. I'm curious as to why some folks would think that. What is so "wrong" with it. I'm honestly just curious about what points can be made.

 

~~~

 

For me I would think maybe people find it perverse that we dress them up to our liking. It is obvious with some things that our fetishes may get displayed on them as well (I honestly totally do that, and I've got no shame in admitting it). The fact that we are adults doesn't help this factor.

 

With children, the symbol of innocence, the idea of them taking off a dolls clothes and putting them back on is seen nothing but as playing. That imagery changes vastly with adults. The playfulness and the creativity bit can be easily lost to someone who is just thinking narrowly about "adults playing with dolls." This image can be changed quickly to one of sexual nature, unlike with children (though I would like to point out that some barbies are very much dressed a little less than decent.).

 

I'm not denying a sexual edge there cause I've stated above that some apply fetishes to their dolls, but I've known enough collectors that don't, and in fact anything sexual is seen more of as a joke for them when it comes to the dolls. It's like dirty humor, which even a child can get these days.

 

I think there is also a level of simply "I don't understand so I hate it," which is basically is what hate is. Something born out of not being able to understand or a unwillingness to.

I think there is also a level of simply "I don't understand so I hate it," which is basically is what hate is. Something born out of not being able to understand or a unwillingness to.

 

I have to agree with you on this one.

 

And I think that there is a lot of people who (I'm not quite sure who to get this right) transfers their thoughts into what we do *If I were to dress a doll in fetish/sexy/strange clothing then I would have some sort of fetish for the doll, therefor do you*

I think some people just go straight to thinking of us as doing something sexual with our dolls, and I can kind of understand that coming from someone who is not really into anime and doesn't understand collecting dolls or figures. Like, my family or friends always make jokes like "You should get one of those big sex dolls so you can dress it up" because, I think, they basically see my dolls as the same thing. I mean, I know they're not the same, but I think they see my dolls as just miniaturized versions of that.

Dollfie Dreams do have sexy bodies and curves and everything, so I can understand why people go straight to thinking we're total pervs for owning them.

 

But I don't understand how a figure collector can say that doll collecting is "depraved." I collect figures as well and I have had a few that were far more graphic that a doll body. So I don't really see how someone who collects figures can say this about dolls. It is quite sad that people who are into the same things, anime etc, can talk badly about each other this way.

He's saying perverted figures like what you posted are okay because they are figures, but dolls in general aren't? O_o

 

Do some people think that if one collects dolls, they naturally have some sort of mental depravity associated with it? Like, the image of a creepy person stroking their dolls hair and talking to them, and then later doing indecent things, or something? A weird combination of adult fetishes and child mentality?

I'm just trying to think why some people think collecting dolls is creepy or perverted :/

Depraved: : marked by corruption or evil; especially : perverted

Synonyms

debased, debauched, decadent, degenerate, degraded, demoralized, corrupt, dissipated, dissolute, jackleg, libertine, loose, perverse, perverted, rakehell (or rakehelly), rakish, reprobate, sick, unclean, unwholesome, warped

 

(Source: Merriam-Webster online dictionary)

Hmmm... I understand describing doll collectors/collecting as weird, odd, crazy, outcast but "depraved" is something new to me. I am tempted to question the thinking process of this person after you said that they didn't mind "Spready Mary" and doesn't particularly see her as depraved when the average person will probably say that that's a little too out there. In my mind, its like saying: "Oh yeah, I collect all this hentai figures on my wall with various detachable clothing and in various compromising poses, a ton of Spready Mary's, dakimakuras galore and eroge games with escalating levels of 'roughness' which I enjoy for the 'feeling' they give me, but I am in no way 'depraved' because I haven't gone too far as collect a DD/BJD and dressed it up in girly clothes or heaven forbid fetishy outfits. Yeah, I'm safe." Hmmm... I just don't understand that thinking and how he/she can generalize the whole doll collecting hobby as depraved. Do they mean "all dolls" or just the DD/Obitsu/VMf50/PeachPai kinda dolls? Does this person think all those old procelain dolliehs his grandma collects reflect what a morally corrupt person she is? Geez, maybe they need to be more specific as to where the line is drawn. Not that they will probably be able to explain their reasoning or that they will be able to change their opinion even if we point out kinks to their logic.

 

I just can't see how they can lump the hobby in general and file it under "morally corrupt and evil, as in perverted" when there is just a small minority of people who are actually into these things. I also just can't understand, hard as I try to how they can classify all of us under that same category and yet not think that the stuff I mentioned previously doesn't fall under the umbrella of "morally corrupt and evil, as in perverted".

 

I agree with you that their sentiment might simply be

a level of simply "I don't understand so I hate it," which is basically is what hate is. Something born out of not being able to understand or a unwillingness to.

 

I wonder what hubby will say about being married to a weird and doll crazy woman, who just is now also under the category of "morally corrupt/depraved". Good thing there is no divorce in my culture mwahahaha.

I don't think there is a point in talking to those kind of people with extreme views. There isn't logic in it when the person has to call something "evil." What is "evil" anyway? Having dolls means you are in league with the devil?

I don't think there is a point in talking to those kind of people with extreme views. There isn't logic in it when the person has to call something "evil." What is "evil" anyway? Having dolls means you are in league with the devil?

 

I guess so. Must have been watching too many scary doll movies?

I don't think there is a point in talking to those kind of people with extreme views. There isn't logic in it when the person has to call something "evil." What is "evil" anyway? Having dolls means you are in league with the devil?

 

I guess so. Must have been watching too many scary doll movies?

 

Everything is gonna get all "Doll Master" up in here.

 

(better comment comes later when I'm not on my phone.)

haha A bad late 80s horror movie called the Puppet Master comes to mind.

Well, its slightly amusing to think that just doll hobbyists could be considered depraved just on the basis, that there is potential for various provocative things, and not figure collectors.

 

Since there are folks like Tyodai, that pretty much proove you can do some rather provocative things with specific disney based figmas if you want to.

 

 

Scale and cost are one thing to consider I suppose, but when you can now get a 1/2 sized super sonico, that is still a stationary figure, that costs quite a bit, that side of the debate gets debunked too.

 

 

But I suppose movies like Childs play might have something to do with it... along with the age old mantra of Dolls are for girls, GI Joe's for boys... Maybe we just need some camo-gear and helmets...

I agree with finnleo. And that crazy Child's Play movie is not helping. haha

I'd argue that without dolls, like the original 1964 GI Joe, to create the collecting base, we wouldn't have the many collectible figure product lines we have today, be they Japanese or western.

 

All in all, it'd be better for this guy to quit worrying about how other people spend their time and money and focus on what he likes. I don't care for Ninja Turtles, but you don't hear me going around ridiculing the fans of them, do you? It's no more silly than Masters of the Universe, and I do own a few of those...

 

And frankly, there are some pretty disturbing scale figures out there. Something with an "O" Figure Engineering? Almost could make one think that this dude is pushing his actual views on himself on to others to feel better about himself.

haha A bad late 80s horror movie called the Puppet Master comes to mind.

 

Dolly Dearest

 

Dolly_Dearest1 by Princess-Oni, on Flickr

haha Excellent use of the Uncanny Valley.

As you said Gunter, I believe that this and most things that people bash on is an example of "I don't understand it, so I hate it." This hobby falls outside social norms and that tends to make people afraid. In some instances where people don't understand something, they will rally other like-minded types to their cause to feel "normal" or "Accepted" and generally they will focus on the most negative stereotypes to demonize the subject in question. I wouldn't worry about it though. All they have is words and a lack of understanding for unwillingness to understand in the first place. I just go by the phrase: "Be who you are, and say what you feel. Because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."

Personally, I think its because:

 

Our dolls have shapes and "bits" that dolls people are used to seeing don't have, that normally only a sex doll would have.

That they're incredibly poseable, so we most certainly can make our girls and guys do naughty things.

 

 

With that being said, I don't understand how having a doll that you dress to look cute, cool or even sexy that may be subject to my fetishes on occasion can be worse than having a statue forever doing something lewd like Spready Mary for example, who is subject to someone's fetish all the time!

 

You can't put clothes on her even if you wanted to! If your doll's bits are only a curvy body, nipples and a slit or some muscles and a penis if a boy. I just can't see it lol. Sure, you have the option to make them do "bad things" and fetishize them somewhat but that doesn't mean it's depraved to own one.

 

The last time someone asked me if one of mine was a sex doll was when I brought one of my boy dolls to show my co-worker. She took down his pants and flipped out and asked if he was a sex doll. I asked her "Can you please tell me exactly how the hell that would work?" in response. (He was a 60cm resin doll with a sculpted flacid penis lmao) It shot her down pretty fast.

 

I really think sometimes it's just the fact that our dolls have anatomy that isn't what people consider normal doll anatomy so people automatically think it's a little sex doll or something. They think that just because its sexier than barbie and an adult has it, it must be something you fap to.

 

Just look at what dolls are generally out in the public. American Girl, Barbie and her knockoffs/competitors, Bratz, MonsterHigh, Babydolls, Porcelain dolls, etc. Our BJDs look drastically different. I'm not saying they're right to call us depraved for owning sexy dolls, but I can see where the idea comes from. Especially if you've seen the gifs of certain mods.

 

As for the guy with the statues, he was wrong. xD I believe it depends on the individual and their reasons for doing whatever that can make whatever it is they do depraved or not. But mass labeling everyone as depraved for owning a doll is just dumb, just because it has the potential to be used in a pervy way.

The last time someone asked me if one of mine was a sex doll was when I brought one of my boy dolls to show my co-worker. She took down his pants and flipped out and asked if he was a sex doll. I asked her "Can you please tell me exactly how the hell that would work?" in response. (He was a 60cm resin doll with a sculpted flacid penis lmao) It shot her down pretty fast.

 

Yes, and we're the pervs, even though apparently her first inclination was to see what was in his pants.

I think one thing that might not have been touched on here is that we tend to personalize our DDs/BJDs. What I mean is that we go beyond simply having a figure (statue) that is just meant to sit on a shelf and look cool. Some of us give our girls personalities and then some even create fully developed photo stories. Outside of figmas, you don't see that with figure/statue collectors. It's merely a piece of "art" that "looks cool" while we name our girls, dress them and sometimes think of them with their own personalities.

 

So I think the aspect that is most unique for our hobby is how we think about our girls and treat them compared to other collectors. For some people that is just a step towards the creepy side. Add to the fact that, like others have said, our girls, DDs in particular, tend to be fairly sexualized, I'm look at you DDdy, combined with our humanizing of them and it's not too hard to see why people on the outside might think we take it too far.

 

I'd like to think that we are the type of people that don't limit ourselves and are willing to explore, creatively, aspects of our personalities that we sometimes project onto our girls. Others don't want to cross that line and can't understand why we do or what we get out of it other than the "fact" that we must be crazy.

The last time someone asked me if one of mine was a sex doll was when I brought one of my boy dolls to show my co-worker. She took down his pants and flipped out and asked if he was a sex doll. I asked her "Can you please tell me exactly how the hell that would work?" in response. (He was a 60cm resin doll with a sculpted flacid penis lmao) It shot her down pretty fast.

 

Yes, and we're the pervs, even though apparently her first inclination was to see what was in his pants.

 

Hahaha. Wonder what she would have said if it was one of those one's with the detachable bits. Or if they see the bigger Dollmore or Obitsu models.

I wonder too why some non-doll collectors immediately undress someone else's doll upon seeing one for the first time. That makes no sense. Why do they assume it is normal to take such liberties without asking?

I do agree with what Averis was saying. I could see (especially with some of the things you come across on the internet. ) why people would think we are strange. We do personalize them to fit an ideal of what we like and enjoy. It's all just a matter of taste. I personally don't see my dolls that way but I don't judge those who do. But I could see where this figure collector was wrong. Especially after seeing spready mary. (the name itself cracks me up.) As with anything in the anime industry you will come across things of a lewd nature, and things that are entirely innocent.

Spready Mary still makes me laugh- she's so gross. i mostly love Araki which is why I added her and a bunch of his other works to the MFC DB. plenty of those kits are on my WL...but...she is very absent from that list, though.

 

anyway, this whole thread is a mountain out of a molehill. the only situation in which what others think of you matters is when they have power over you, I.E "My boss is really uptight and strict, if I don't adhere to the rules and act as strait-laced as possible then I'll get fired" or "I don't want that guy/girl to look down on me, so I'll try to be polite around them and hope we can become friends" are maybe two examples. (note that a good friend will actually accept your bad traits for the most part... faking relationships ends in tears)

 

a third example might be if your behavior ends up physically hurting someone but dolls =/= people so let's try not to go there.

 

am I 'depraved'? what does that even mean in this context, and why does it matter if the above is not a concern?

 

why does it matter if you are depraved?

why does it matter if someone thinks you "depraved"?

 

like i said, it literally only matters in a situation where you do not have control or power (and thus must hide aspects of yourself that could disadvantage you) or in situations where you end up genuinely harming another human being (and then the law is involved).

 

for me, i can't work a 9-5 or dayjob because of health issues, so having a crazy boss probably isn't going to be an issue.

i also would never want to be friends with or associate with someone who thought that i was a "depraved" person because of [X] or [Y] aspect of my personality, habits or hobbies. i have literally zero reason to waste my time with that sort of person unless it's amusing to me (by which i mean, when i'm sick and bored and just want to argue on the internet for fun)

 

finally, i don't have a criminal record, and i'd probably only ever hurt someone in self defense if i was even capable of doing that from a physical POV. which has zero to do with doll collecting.

 

so maybe ask yourself the same questions because if it bothers you, that's your issue.

 

edit: by the way, i see topics similar to this often brought up on Den of Angels and various *chan boards etc. i think it relates to the fact that "we" (as in, doll collectors) often have low self esteem or psychological issues. feel free to deny it if you think it's not true, but i personally think that damaged self esteem and unstable mental well-being is closely tied to this hobby in some ways. some people may be more affected than others though.

 

i even met people in the BJD community who feel upset or offended by unflattering pictures of their dolls, and i feel like it is because we use dolls as an extension of our selves (so a bad picture of a doll will make us feel the same way as if we had a bad photo taken of ourselves).

 

someone took a terrible picture of my doll once at a meet and it made me cringe when they posted it online - but i didn't say anything, because it's something i can shrug off, yet i still felt the inner-reaction that other people are more vocal and self-conscious about.

 

genuinely, you may be confident in many areas of your life, but when you worry about what other people think of you ("are you depraved?!") then it means you have an unresolved self-esteem based or psychological issue.

 

just a theory, may not be limited to this hobby, but i have noticed an especial prevalence of this type of thinking and this and similar questions constantly being asked in doll collecting and similar hobbies i.e figures.

anyway, this whole thread is a mountain out of a molehill.

 

How is that so? I'm just curious. Its a topic where Gunter was curious about what would make a person say the hobby is depraved and was actually asking how one can understand that logic. I had honestly thought it was a discussion of why people thought that way and how they could say it about one hobby and not another, not a discussion of whether it bothered or worried us who are in the hobby or not.

 

But, then again, I could be wrong. I don't really know what's going on in anyone's heads.

I agree with katnaper. Wondering why people do things/think a certain way is fun sometimes.

 

Like why would someone make a Ranch Dressing Soda?

 

 

Or why is the Twilight Zone fun to watch (for me at least) even though it is quite old?

 

I also read somewhere that complaining as a group (among each other despite us all having similar views) makes members of a community closer.

I agree with katnaper. Wondering why people do things/think a certain way is fun sometimes.

 

Like why would someone make a Ranch Dressing Soda?

 

 

Someone was too lazy to dip their chips?