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Aoibara

Waifu/gf culture. Your thoughts? *Serious topic*

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Aoibara

Well, there was a slight talk about the waifu/gf culture on the new dollfie line thread I made but since it is off-topic-ish, I decided to make a thread solely to debate on this thing.

 

Well, to be honest, I truly dislike the waifu/gf culture. Not only it is somewhat misogynist, but it also ruins the animanga culture as a whole. Today in Japan, otakus, especialyl males are viewed negatively because of the waifu/gf culture and the sane male otakus are prejudiced because of it. I have heard male friends from Japan who suffer this misconception that all male bishojo figure collectors are like that. Hell, one of my male friends who is downright otaku, he is a married man too! OF course to a real woman.

 

The waifu/gf culture also affects me too, because there is the smaller, but equally disgusting and noticable and stereotypical hazubando/bf culture, and some people have associated me with that and I hate it. I may fall in love with male characters, but they are far from being my husbands. I want a real man for my life rather than an anime guy. (Edit: hazubando/bf culture is just as misandrist as waifu/gf culture.)

 

I remember one waifu culture guy saying "I don't like real women because they cheat on you and they are bitchy and even the idol ones are not pretty enough.". Too bad. We live in a messed up world. Anime is a fantasy yes. We can love it, sure. But if you give up findign real women and only use 2D girls, you are basically the zebra who will get eaten by the lion because he couldn't face reality. This applies to the women who only want anime boys.

Edited by Guest

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SakuraDreams
Well, there was a slight talk about the waifu/gf culture on the new dollfie line thread I made but since it is off-topic-ish, I decided to make a thread solely to debate on this thing.

 

Well, to be honest, I truly dislike the waifu/gf culture. Not only it is somewhat misogynist, but it also ruins the animanga culture as a whole. Today in Japan, otakus, especialyl males are viewed negatively because of the waifu/gf culture and the sane male otakus are prejudiced because of it. I have heard male friends from Japan who suffer this misconception that all male bishojo figure collectors are like that. Hell, one of my male friends who is downright otaku, he is a married man too! OF course to a real woman.

 

The waifu/gf culture also affects me too, because there is the smaller, but equally disgusting and noticable and stereotypical hazubando/bf culture, and some people have associated me with that and I hate it. I may fall in love with male characters, but they are far from being my husbands. I want a real man for my life rather than an anime guy.

 

I remember one waifu culture guy saying "I don't like real women because they cheat on you and they are bitchy and even the idol ones are not pretty enough.". Too bad. We live in a messed up world. Anime is a fantasy yes. We can love it, sure. But if you give up findign real women and only use 2D girls, you are basically the zebra who will get eaten by the lion because he couldn't face reality. This applies to the women who only want anime boys.

 

I largely agree with that. Of course it's important to also keep in mind that waifu dolls may not be a primary problem but rather a symptom. People who are shy will not approach the opposite sex. Likewise people who are not able to deliver on modern expectations may too move over to the PVC team. Take for example someone who is not too attractive, does not have a good job or none at all and is not very good at social skills. He'll be rejected by many women. And many women in Japan these days, aren't marrying at all.

 

Stereotypes are sad but not always entirely false. As they say, where there is smoke, there is fire.

 

The 2D vs 3D thing -- they also call it that is that. The 2D is the idealised version of what many guys want. However in real life we find that that's often not possible. Maybe people give up too soon. Or maybe sometimes the expectations are too high - and that can occur among both men and women. Of course what many people think they want and what's best for them may not always meet. As they say, be careful what you wish for, because you could get it.

 

The presence of anime, manga, eroge and waifu dolls/figures however maybe makes it easier for people who are in despair to go for these sort of delusions and distractions than seek real and meaningful partnership or even just friendship.

Edited by Guest

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Aile

I probably technically fall under this somehow, as I consider Naoto as mai waifu. The thing is though, I'm (technically) a straight female and as much as I love Naoto, I actually don't love her to a point where I'd go all "nah man i dun like 3d girls 2d for life yoooooo".

 

But honestly I have no qualms with the issue ? I guess the only time where I get very iffy about it is when people take things too seriously to a point where they consider real women/men the bane of everything.


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SakuraDreams
I probably technically fall under this somehow, as I consider Naoto as mai waifu. The thing is though, I'm (technically) a straight female and as much as I love Naoto, I actually don't love her to a point where I'd go all "nah man i dun like 3d girls 2d for life yoooooo".

 

But honestly I have no qualms with the issue ? I guess the only time where I get very iffy about it is when people take things too seriously to a point where they consider real women/men the bane of everything.

 

Then you're probably don't fall under what the OP expected. I think it's common to have something one likes very much. But in this case a waifu would be replacement (substitute) for other people or interests in other people and not so much a doll one really, really likes and treasures, holds, plays with etc.


At home: DD Sakura Shinguji, DDS Yukiho Hagiwara, DD Asuna, DD Rina Ogata, DDS MOMO, DDS Ranko Kanzaki.

Waiting for: Hatsune Miku

Preordered: Ranka Lee

Countdown to Hatsune Miku.

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Aoibara

I largely agree with that. Of course it's important to also keep in mind that waifu dolls may not be a primary problem but rather a symptom. People who are shy will not approach the opposite sex. Likewise people who are not able to deliver on modern expectations may too move over to the PVC team. Take for example someone who is not too attractive, does not have a good job or none at all and is not very good at social skills. He'll be rejected by many women. And many women in Japan these days, aren't marrying at all.

 

Stereotypes are sad but not always entirely false. As they say, where there is smoke, there is fire.

 

The 2D vs 3D thing -- they also call it that is that. The 2D is the idealised version of what many guys want. However in real life we find that that's often not possible. Maybe people give up too soon. Or maybe sometimes the expectations are too high - and that can occur among both men and women. Of course what many people think they want and what's best for them may not always meet. As they say, be careful what you wish for, because you could get it.

 

The presence of anime, manga, eroge and waifu dolls/figures however maybe makes it easier for people who are in despair to go for these sort of delusions and distractions than seek real and meaningful partnership or even just friendship.

 

Yes. Dolls are only one symptom.

 

I have to admit I am a bit of a shy person, and I sometimes do have hard time approaching guys around my age. I notice alot of otakus do moveover to the PVC team. However, that will no way stop me from finding my own love. EDIT: Yay for fail wording. I mean a real guy, not PVC, I would like to pursue, no matter how shy I am.

 

I probably technically fall under this somehow, as I consider Naoto as mai waifu. The thing is though, I'm (technically) a straight female and as much as I love Naoto, I actually don't love her to a point where I'd go all "nah man i dun like 3d girls 2d for life yoooooo".

 

But honestly I have no qualms with the issue ? I guess the only time where I get very iffy about it is when people take things too seriously to a point where they consider real women/men the bane of everything.

 

Judging from what you said, you are safe and you don't fall under that.

Edited by Guest

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SakuraDreams

Yes. Dolls are only one symptom.

 

I have to admit I am a bit of a shy person, and I sometimes do have hard time approaching guys around my age. I notice alot of otakus do moveover to the PVC team. However, that will no way stop me from finding my own love.

 

 

No way.

 

And many more guys are probably more scared of u, so don't approach you.


At home: DD Sakura Shinguji, DDS Yukiho Hagiwara, DD Asuna, DD Rina Ogata, DDS MOMO, DDS Ranko Kanzaki.

Waiting for: Hatsune Miku

Preordered: Ranka Lee

Countdown to Hatsune Miku.

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Aoibara

Yes. Dolls are only one symptom.

 

I have to admit I am a bit of a shy person, and I sometimes do have hard time approaching guys around my age. I notice alot of otakus do moveover to the PVC team. However, that will no way stop me from finding my own love.

 

 

No way.

 

And many more guys are probably more scared of u, so don't approach you.

 

I think I have worded that rather clumisly. I meant although I am shy, I will still pursue a real (Not PVC! Duh! ) man of my dreams.

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SakuraDreams

Yes. Dolls are only one symptom.

 

I have to admit I am a bit of a shy person, and I sometimes do have hard time approaching guys around my age. I notice alot of otakus do moveover to the PVC team. However, that will no way stop me from finding my own love.

 

 

No way.

 

And many more guys are probably more scared of u, so don't approach you.

 

I think I have worded that rather clumisly. I meant although I am shy, I will still pursue a real (Not PVC! Duh! ) man of my dreams.

 

No, I understood. No way, about the shy bit.

 

But shy can also be good. Many guys like "shy".


At home: DD Sakura Shinguji, DDS Yukiho Hagiwara, DD Asuna, DD Rina Ogata, DDS MOMO, DDS Ranko Kanzaki.

Waiting for: Hatsune Miku

Preordered: Ranka Lee

Countdown to Hatsune Miku.

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shinegamix

love... one of the most powerful emotions out there. but lets be honest its hard to find it. once you do find it. its even trickier to maintain it. cause once you lose it. it will feel like the end of the world and sometimes you cant bear to live on without the other and literally end existing.

 

for me its not that bad. but ill give you my 2 cents from a guys point of view and probably wont make any friends writing this. but it happened to me before so dont blame me. blame my exes. i also know that the following points do not always apply to everybody, but i have yet to come across a specimen that does not have at least one of these traits.

 

1. very annoying is when a girl starts playing those mind games. ( no not flirting)the goal is to make the guy unsure. i am sick and tired of that and rather walk away then play the game.

 

2. general bitching. commenting or critisizing all the time. fun for you to do. not so for the person you are talking about or the person having to listen to you all the time. i dont care if my socks dont match.

 

3. which brings me to the next one. stop trying to change me. you love me for what i am or go look for another guy. i am not some kinda project to work on and change into what you want.

 

4. half of the world population is female(giver or take a couple million). so its not weird i know other girls/women. i dont like it when i am then monitored constantly or getting the question who is she and how do you know her all the time. trust goes both ways. trust me like i am trusting you.

 

5. being so hypocrit. why is it not ok for a guy to look at a pretty girl. but its ok for girls to look at a gutlooking guy. nuff said.

 

6. i am not your dog or pet. so stop treating me like one. that and the general belief of that you are better then me.

 

7. magazines are not textbooks. stop believing that cosmo is the effing bible or so. they are just writing stuff that you want to read. not whats true.

 

8. when in arguments digging up stuff that was buried long in the past. stop living in the friggin past. come on people.

 

9. think you are the center of my universe. no i still have friends i like to hang out with. yes some of them are girls. but trust me when i say i wont make a move.

 

10. why do i have to go to your friends events/invitations and you not going the invites of my friends.

 

11. being used and then discarded/traded up for a better looking model. you hate it whan a guy does it. the opposite is also not that elegant.

 

there are many more reasons. too long to list it all here. again this does not apply to all girls. dont take it all too personally.

 

but for the reasons above plus a pvc or dakimakura or a 2d waifu will never: lie to you, cheat on you, belittle you, stab you in the back. and will always look thesame and smiling to you is why i understand the people living in fantasy. because its safe. never risk of having to suffer a broken heart again.


making my triumphant return

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Aoibara
love... one of the most powerful emotions out there. but lets be honest its hard to find it. once you do find it. its even trickier to maintain it. cause once you lose it. it will feel like the end of the world and sometimes you cant bear to live on without the other and literally end existing.

 

for me its not that bad. but ill give you my 2 cents from a guys point of view and probably wont make any friends writing this. but it happened to me before so dont blame me. blame my exes. i also know that the following points do not always apply to everybody, but i have yet to come across a specimen that does not have at least one of these traits.

 

1. very annoying is when a girl starts playing those mind games. ( no not flirting)the goal is to make the guy unsure. i am sick and tired of that and rather walk away then play the game.

 

2. general bitching. commenting or critisizing all the time. fun for you to do. not so for the person you are talking about or the person having to listen to you all the time. i dont care if my socks dont match.

 

3. which brings me to the next one. stop trying to change me. you love me for what i am or go look for another guy. i am not some kinda project to work on and change into what you want.

 

4. half of the world population is female(giver or take a couple million). so its not weird i know other girls/women. i dont like it when i am then monitored constantly or getting the question who is she and how do you know her all the time. trust goes both ways. trust me like i am trusting you.

 

5. being so hypocrit. why is it not ok for a guy to look at a pretty girl. but its ok for girls to look at a gutlooking guy. nuff said.

 

6. i am not your dog or pet. so stop treating me like one. that and the general belief of that you are better then me.

 

7. magazines are not textbooks. stop believing that cosmo is the effing bible or so. they are just writing stuff that you want to read. not whats true.

 

8. when in arguments digging up stuff that was buried long in the past. stop living in the friggin past. come on people.

 

9. think you are the center of my universe. no i still have friends i like to hang out with. yes some of them are girls. but trust me when i say i wont make a move.

 

10. why do i have to go to your friends events/invitations and you not going the invites of my friends.

 

11. being used and then discarded/traded up for a better looking model. you hate it whan a guy does it. the opposite is also not that elegant.

 

there are many more reasons. too long to list it all here. again this does not apply to all girls. dont take it all too personally.

 

but for the reasons above plus a pvc or dakimakura or a 2d waifu will never: lie to you, cheat on you, belittle you, stab you in the back. and will always look thesame and smiling to you is why i understand the people living in fantasy. because its safe. never risk of having to suffer a broken heart again.

 

From what I read, I will be as calm as possible here.

 

I am sorry that you encountered the un-nice girls. At least you know it doesn't apply to all the women. But I have to warn you; if you shut yourself into fantasy, you WILL never have a lead in life like those loser-types there. As a fellow member, I don't want you to become a zebra eaten by the lion or the animal who is unable to survive the harsh wilderness.

 

Ask yourself; do you think having 2D girls who will never cheat on you is the best? Do you think permanently locking up yourself in deluded fantasy is really the best? Also, don't you think maybe your ideal woman may be deluded too? Do you think that having these 2D wives will give you true happiness, not the happiness you experience? Also, do you think it is really correct to live a life without being heartbroken?

 

Just having a 2D waifu will never ever make you happy. When I was small, I did that, relying on 2D husbands. I was happy at first, because he will never move like you said, and you won't feel heart broken. However, I realized that wasn't correct, and it was wrong. It was wrong because it wasn't a proper way of life, and fantasy isn't real. As humans, we must suffer the thing called reality. If we shut into the world of fantasy, we will fall and we will perhaps end up lower than garbage; if we are lower than garbage, we will never be recycled, as in finding a new opening to our lives.

 

We live in a world where people aren't exactly perfect as your waifus. We can find similar, but never exact. Think, there are men who cheats, lies, use women as toys and act like the girls you just mentioned. So, men aren't the only ones, but women too. You have to face it. Face the fact that it will take longer for some to find a real partner who isn't 2D. That is the basic of life, to go through being heartbroken and experiencing pain while we also experience the joy of living, and we get our reward after death, whether it is in absolute oblivion or in heaven. If you don't understand that leaving fantasy and facing reality is the basic, I think it is the best to ask yourself.

 

Trust me. All must leave fantasy. So do you. If you insist Your listings made me sad. It will probably sadden others too, even the men too. I wish I have the power to turn your head around. I am not saying you should dump out your 2D girls, you are welcome to have them, but that is what you should consider since that is quite unhealthy. And I don't want to end up hating you for that, and I am pretty sure there are others who don't want you like that too. So, man up. You WILL find a girl who will never do that.

 

If you don't want this, your choice. But one will suffer these consequences later in life. If not in life, perhaps, after death, atheist or not.

 

Just a friendly reminder to rethink from a member. No intend of insult.

Edited by Guest

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babytarragon

Sounds like ShinegamiX has known some not so great girls... I can understand why you would avoid them if that's their behaviour. As a female, I actively avoid girls who are like your description. All the women around me are not like that, they are pure hearted and kind. If I'm able to find these kind girls, I hope you could too. I have a close friend who is always being mistreated by girls, it seems like he's always able to find the ones who would hurt him. I wonder why this happens over and over to him and to you?

 

As a real life wife I'm baffled by girls who can get away with treating men so badly that they turn to dolls as their waifu. Honestly, to me it would seem like the girl who should change their approach, not the man!

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Aoibara

Also ShinegamiX, one more warning; a type of guy like you on the internet, will get targeted by people on Encyclopedia Dramatica. Be warned. They love to target people like you, and I don't want you being suffered from being put up on Encyclopedia Dramatica and being ridiculed by, and I am sure you don't want people trolling you. So please. I know you are actually a great person, and someone would probably want you.

 

tl;dr: People on Encyclopedia Dramatica love targeting people who only want 2D girls and beating em up. And I don't want you to be beaten up.

 

Sounds like ShinegamiX has known some not so great girls... I can understand why you would avoid them if that's their behaviour. As a female, I actively avoid girls who are like your description. All the women around me are not like that, they are pure hearted and kind. If I'm able to find these kind girls, I hope you could too. I have a close friend who is always being mistreated by girls, it seems like he's always able to find the ones who would hurt him. I wonder why this happens over and over to him and to you?

 

As a real life wife I'm baffled by girls who can get away with treating men so badly that they turn to dolls as their waifu. Honestly, to me it would seem like the girl who should change their approach, not the man!

 

I really hope he listens. I know it is hard, but this cannot be left alone. I have been through a similar thing in the past.

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faustbane

I'm very hesitant to say all of this because I'm afraid there will be people who will hate me and call me names* but I feel like it's important (*see Anita Sarkeesian).

 

I think what bothers me the most about those kinds of people who swear off of real women and only want 2D women is that many (not all) don't see women as real people with wants and needs. They see women as objects to be attained and when they have their own minds and goals, it angers them and makes them reject real women all together. It is then easier for them to have a women who is an object and not real. This ties in with men who feel entitled to having a wife or girlfriend. You are not guaranteed a beautiful woman in your life who adores you, I'm sorry but that's not how (most) of the world works. If you don't put effort into yourself like basic hygienic practices, wearing clean and attractive clothing, having long term goals, a stable financial income, etc, why would you expect any one to want you? That also extends to personality and putting in the EFFORT to attract a woman. So often I hear guys bitch and complain about not being able to get a girlfriend but more often than not they're not putting themselves out there or not presenting themselves as a solicitace mate. You wouldn't want a girl who doesn't wash her hair and wear nice clothing, why should you expect any woman to want you if you're not doing those things? All women want the best that they can get to provide for themselves and possibly future children. Why would they want a basement dweller who spends all of his income on figures and swag and doesn't try to put his money into a home or investments for the future? All the vinyl figures in the world are not going to feed or house you both. I guess you could argue that they are worth some money but that's not how a girl who may not be into the hobby is going to see it.

 

As far as the shyness issue, you're just going to have to learn to get past it. I had social anxiety for a long time so I understand how crippling it can be but my issues didn't get any better until I bit the bullet said I'm going to make a change whether or not it makes me uncomfortable or I get hurt by other people. It caused a lot of heartache reacclimating to the world but I'm better for it and it got me the things I wanted like a boyfriend and friends. Life is full of heartache and I'm sorry but no one is special enough to be exempt.

 

Back on the topic of guys feeling entitled though, I never understood why the ugliest, meanest, dirtiest guys always felt like they should or could get with the hottest women. You have nothing to bring to the table, why would you ever in million years think that you should have that woman? And then when she rejects the guy, he gets angry and butthurt and calls her a whore or bitch. Specifically this applies to the "nice guy" syndrome. Just because you're nice to a girl and do things for her doesn't mean she owes you ANYTHING. You do not get a free ticket to have sex with her just because you were nice. You should WANT to be nice to other people without EVER expecting to get any thing back. It's called being a decent human being. So when they get all butthurt about it, it shows that they're not the "nice guy" that they think they are.

 

I'm not trying to slam on any specific people or say that everyone is like that because that's not true. I know lots of guys who are into the hobby and still function as normal responsible adults. I'm just drawing from examples I've seen online or people I've known and speaking generally about that type of guy. And don't get me wrong, there's LOTS of women out there like this too. I know quite a few girls who didn't put any effort into their appearance and interpersonal skills and then wonder why guys don't want them.


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Fujico

I have a lot of feeling on this topic, so forgive some rambling/not-so coherent thoughts.

 

Anyway, I really think there are two variables to the waifu/gf culture. Some people use the term waifu (or similarly, husbando) to refer to a character the like a lot. Hell, I do this. I call characters my wife, or girlfriend, or whatever, but I don't delve into the culture of the "2D loving" people. Relatively harmless, jut having fun with characters. Maybe others have feelings that this IS harmful, and I'd love to hear opinions from those people!

 

On the subject of the actual "waifu" and 2D girl thing, I think the reason I dislike it a lot is because a lot of the men who act like this fall into the "nice guy" category. This type of person I've encountered has a VERY misogynistic view of females. Such thing include all females fall for only "bad boys" and "but why won't they notice ME", use the term "friendzone" (which I despise) and often feel that females owe them sex.

 

I've seen this with people who say "Oh, I want a 2D girl, because 3D girls are XYZ", and it really pisses me off.

 

Then again, not all people who prefer 2D are like this. I know of people who actually have/identify themselves as toonophiles/schediaphiles (and they are female, to boot), so I'm not one to immediately target people like that.

 

I DO target people that have extremely misogynistic viewpoints though.


At Home Saber Alter v.2, M.O.M.O.

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Yukamina

I'm not sure I really understand this waifu culture. Do they actually pick a fictional character or doll and treat her like a wife? The term to me would imply that they dedicate themselves to one character, but it always seems like otaku (or fans in general) just want more and more--as many appealing and cute anime girls as they can acquire. And when people call an anime character their 'waifu/husbando' it always seems done in jest, just to show that they really like that particular character (but not to the exclusion of other characters). I guess part of liking 2D girls is that they won't mind if you go after more than one?

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Aoibara
I'm very hesitant to say all of this because I'm afraid there will be people who will hate me and call me names* but I feel like it's important (*see Anita Sarkeesian).

 

I think what bothers me the most about those kinds of people who swear off of real women and only want 2D women is that many (not all) don't see women as real people with wants and needs. They see women as objects to be attained and when they have their own minds and goals, it angers them and makes them reject real women all together. It is then easier for them to have a women who is an object and not real. This ties in with men who feel entitled to having a wife or girlfriend. You are not guaranteed a beautiful woman in your life who adores you, I'm sorry but that's not how (most) of the world works. If you don't put effort into yourself like basic hygienic practices, wearing clean and attractive clothing, having long term goals, a stable financial income, etc, why would you expect any one to want you? That also extends to personality and putting in the EFFORT to attract a woman. So often I hear guys bitch and complain about not being able to get a girlfriend but more often than not they're not putting themselves out there or not presenting themselves as a solicitace mate. You wouldn't want a girl who doesn't wash her hair and wear nice clothing, why should you expect any woman to want you if you're not doing those things? All women want the best that they can get to provide for themselves and possibly future children. Why would they want a basement dweller who spends all of his income on figures and swag and doesn't try to put his money into a home or investments for the future? All the vinyl figures in the world are not going to feed or house you both. I guess you could argue that they are worth some money but that's not how a girl who may not be into the hobby is going to see it.

 

As far as the shyness issue, you're just going to have to learn to get past it. I had social anxiety for a long time so I understand how crippling it can be but my issues didn't get any better until I bit the bullet said I'm going to make a change whether or not it makes me uncomfortable or I get hurt by other people. It caused a lot of heartache reacclimating to the world but I'm better for it and it got me the things I wanted like a boyfriend and friends. Life is full of heartache and I'm sorry but no one is special enough to be exempt.

 

Back on the topic of guys feeling entitled though, I never understood why the ugliest, meanest, dirtiest guys always felt like they should or could get with the hottest women. You have nothing to bring to the table, why would you ever in million years think that you should have that woman? And then when she rejects the guy, he gets angry and butthurt and calls her a whore or bitch. Specifically this applies to the "nice guy" syndrome. Just because you're nice to a girl and do things for her doesn't mean she owes you ANYTHING. You do not get a free ticket to have sex with her just because you were nice. You should WANT to be nice to other people without EVER expecting to get any thing back. It's called being a decent human being. So when they get all butthurt about it, it shows that they're not the "nice guy" that they think they are.

 

I'm not trying to slam on any specific people or say that everyone is like that because that's not true. I know lots of guys who are into the hobby and still function as normal responsible adults. I'm just drawing from examples I've seen online or people I've known and speaking generally about that type of guy. And don't get me wrong, there's LOTS of women out there like this too. I know quite a few girls who didn't put any effort into their appearance and interpersonal skills and then wonder why guys don't want them.

 

This. I couldn't explain it any better than you did here. Applause for ya.

 

I have a lot of feeling on this topic, so forgive some rambling/not-so coherent thoughts.

 

Anyway, I really think there are two variables to the waifu/gf culture. Some people use the term waifu (or similarly, husbando) to refer to a character the like a lot. Hell, I do this. I call characters my wife, or girlfriend, or whatever, but I don't delve into the culture of the "2D loving" people. Relatively harmless, jut having fun with characters. Maybe others have feelings that this IS harmful, and I'd love to hear opinions from those people!

 

On the subject of the actual "waifu" and 2D girl thing, I think the reason I dislike it a lot is because a lot of the men who act like this fall into the "nice guy" category. This type of person I've encountered has a VERY misogynistic view of females. Such thing include all females fall for only "bad boys" and "but why won't they notice ME", use the term "friendzone" (which I despise) and often feel that females owe them sex.

 

I've seen this with people who say "Oh, I want a 2D girl, because 3D girls are XYZ", and it really pisses me off.

 

Then again, not all people who prefer 2D are like this. I know of people who actually have/identify themselves as toonophiles/schediaphiles (and they are female, to boot), so I'm not one to immediately target people like that.

 

I DO target people that have extremely misogynistic viewpoints though.

 

I have to admit I sometimes do call my favorite guys husbands sometimes, but I will never mean real husband, and I usually use it in a moderate way. In other words, I am simply saying I love that guy I wish he is real but oh well reality is better.

 

And like the misogynistic ones, I have to totally agree with you. I mean these guys totally don't even have a spine! Same with the women who prefer 2D men in a misandrist way. They totally ruin the animanga culture as a whole and taint our images.

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Aoibara
I'm very hesitant to say all of this because I'm afraid there will be people who will hate me and call me names* but I feel like it's important (*see Anita Sarkeesian).

 

I think what bothers me the most about those kinds of people who swear off of real women and only want 2D women is that many (not all) don't see women as real people with wants and needs. They see women as objects to be attained and when they have their own minds and goals, it angers them and makes them reject real women all together. It is then easier for them to have a women who is an object and not real. This ties in with men who feel entitled to having a wife or girlfriend. You are not guaranteed a beautiful woman in your life who adores you, I'm sorry but that's not how (most) of the world works. If you don't put effort into yourself like basic hygienic practices, wearing clean and attractive clothing, having long term goals, a stable financial income, etc, why would you expect any one to want you? That also extends to personality and putting in the EFFORT to attract a woman. So often I hear guys bitch and complain about not being able to get a girlfriend but more often than not they're not putting themselves out there or not presenting themselves as a solicitace mate. You wouldn't want a girl who doesn't wash her hair and wear nice clothing, why should you expect any woman to want you if you're not doing those things? All women want the best that they can get to provide for themselves and possibly future children. Why would they want a basement dweller who spends all of his income on figures and swag and doesn't try to put his money into a home or investments for the future? All the vinyl figures in the world are not going to feed or house you both. I guess you could argue that they are worth some money but that's not how a girl who may not be into the hobby is going to see it.

 

As far as the shyness issue, you're just going to have to learn to get past it. I had social anxiety for a long time so I understand how crippling it can be but my issues didn't get any better until I bit the bullet said I'm going to make a change whether or not it makes me uncomfortable or I get hurt by other people. It caused a lot of heartache reacclimating to the world but I'm better for it and it got me the things I wanted like a boyfriend and friends. Life is full of heartache and I'm sorry but no one is special enough to be exempt.

 

Back on the topic of guys feeling entitled though, I never understood why the ugliest, meanest, dirtiest guys always felt like they should or could get with the hottest women. You have nothing to bring to the table, why would you ever in million years think that you should have that woman? And then when she rejects the guy, he gets angry and butthurt and calls her a whore or bitch. Specifically this applies to the "nice guy" syndrome. Just because you're nice to a girl and do things for her doesn't mean she owes you ANYTHING. You do not get a free ticket to have sex with her just because you were nice. You should WANT to be nice to other people without EVER expecting to get any thing back. It's called being a decent human being. So when they get all butthurt about it, it shows that they're not the "nice guy" that they think they are.

 

I'm not trying to slam on any specific people or say that everyone is like that because that's not true. I know lots of guys who are into the hobby and still function as normal responsible adults. I'm just drawing from examples I've seen online or people I've known and speaking generally about that type of guy. And don't get me wrong, there's LOTS of women out there like this too. I know quite a few girls who didn't put any effort into their appearance and interpersonal skills and then wonder why guys don't want them.

 

This. I couldn't explain it any better than you did here. Applause for ya.

 

I have a lot of feeling on this topic, so forgive some rambling/not-so coherent thoughts.

 

Anyway, I really think there are two variables to the waifu/gf culture. Some people use the term waifu (or similarly, husbando) to refer to a character the like a lot. Hell, I do this. I call characters my wife, or girlfriend, or whatever, but I don't delve into the culture of the "2D loving" people. Relatively harmless, jut having fun with characters. Maybe others have feelings that this IS harmful, and I'd love to hear opinions from those people!

 

On the subject of the actual "waifu" and 2D girl thing, I think the reason I dislike it a lot is because a lot of the men who act like this fall into the "nice guy" category. This type of person I've encountered has a VERY misogynistic view of females. Such thing include all females fall for only "bad boys" and "but why won't they notice ME", use the term "friendzone" (which I despise) and often feel that females owe them sex.

 

I've seen this with people who say "Oh, I want a 2D girl, because 3D girls are XYZ", and it really pisses me off.

 

Then again, not all people who prefer 2D are like this. I know of people who actually have/identify themselves as toonophiles/schediaphiles (and they are female, to boot), so I'm not one to immediately target people like that.

 

I DO target people that have extremely misogynistic viewpoints though.

 

I have to admit I sometimes do call my favorite guys husbands sometimes, but I will never mean real husband, and I usually use it in a moderate way. In other words, I am simply saying I love that guy I wish he is real but oh well reality is better.

 

And like the misogynistic ones, I have to totally agree with you. I mean these guys totally don't even have a spine! Same with the women who prefer 2D men in a misandrist way. They totally ruin the animanga culture as a whole and taint our images.

 

I'm not sure I really understand this waifu culture. Do they actually pick a fictional character or doll and treat her like a wife? The term to me would imply that they dedicate themselves to one character, but it always seems like otaku (or fans in general) just want more and more--as many appealing and cute anime girls as they can acquire. And when people call an anime character their 'waifu/husbando' it always seems done in jest, just to show that they really like that particular character (but not to the exclusion of other characters). I guess part of liking 2D girls is that they won't mind if you go after more than one?

 

Yes. They do call them wives. But they treat them more like sex toys rather than real wives and overall mysogynist.

 

The ones done in the jest are fine as long as they can accept reality. And I admit I do that too. :p I go after alot of 2D boys in a moderate level too. But they will never be my sex toys

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Bloodflower

I'm sorry but I can't take this thread seriously and even less as a discussion topic.

Here's the reason why:

This doesn't feel at all as a discussion thread, more like a hate thread about so called "waifu/husbando culture". What you have done is to present this culture in a way I usually only see in media; a very angled way to fit your view of the thing or to make it more interesting for the viewer. You do not define in a good way what it is you are talking about, just assuming everyone knows what it is. Reading your opening comments would make me, if I didn't know better, think that this waifu/husbando culture is a terrible sexist culture were everyone hates the real-life gender counterpart(no exceptions). You are also using a group of individuals of the culture to define the whole culture, it's like saying all who dress up as furries does this only to have sex in those costumes just because some of them does that(which is not true at all but a common view of the furry culture). Another popular one is the one media created a couple of years ago; that anime/manga is only for pedophiles because there exist lolicon porn in that culture. Even though the more usual genres are aimed at kids and teenagers, but no clearly everyone who likes anime/manga likes small children getting molested.

 

I'm not trying to be rude here, only help open up this thread for more discussion and different views. I hope I've managed to be coherent enough.

 

My two cents on the topic itself(since you want it to be a discussion):

I have no problem with the waifu/husbando culture in my definition of how it works. The problem I have with are the extreme ones, the ones that makes the whole anime/manga culture look bad. But those will always exist, in all cultures. They will always make the other ones look bad, so we'll just have to show the rest of the world how it really is. If someone likes to see 2D characters in a sexual way then fine, it's their own preferences. As long as someones sexual preferences hurts no-one directly emotionally and physically or breaks the law then it shouldn't be judged by others. Why judge someone who, for example, only collects Haruhi related stuff, they got a Haruhi everywhere and are even celebrating their birthday. So what? As long as this isn't one of those sexist extreme cases, why then call them bad and hate them just for liking and collecting one character? People does that with celebrities all the time too.

 

Real people can be real asses sometimes and a escapist fantasy like anime and manga is a good thing to hide in sometimes. Not everyone are the same and not everyone wants a relationship.


Corellia(DD Marya), Sirius(DDS Sirius), Luka(DDdy OOB N-04), Alessa(DDdy Sakura Honya Head) Genma(Azone Kanojo)

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Mahoro

+1 to bloodflower, with whose sentiments I agree.

 

Mostly directed at OP:

 

I'm in agreement with bloodflower that this is so far pretty much a hate thread and OP's insistence on calling other people's differing opinions on how to run their life as wrong (ex. Shinegamix). Why are you telling people they have to stop choosing to not be in a relationship? Its not as if its going to cause the world to end, some people choose not to, its their life choice. Sure, people are often not nice, so why do you think people HAVE to be in a relationship? This is how abuse starts. Why stay in a situation knowingly unfavorable just to fulfill some meaningless societal 'norm' that you NEED to find someone. Whats wrong with delving into a fantasy world so long as you're not causing anyone else grief? You're making it sound like people have to spend their time looking for a partner in order to be 'successful' in life. Sure, biologically, but humans have long moved past that need as a species.

 

The world is such a big place and most of us are granted more freedoms and mobility than ever before, why cant we stay single and enjoy some other purpose in life? Its not as if people who delve into the waifu culture are hurting yours or any other person's chances at finding someone. You're perfectly fine in looking for someone, nothing wrong with that, but theres nothing wrong with the opposite decision either. Most people dont even take it as far as you like to make it out to be, its purely a form of enjoying a character. There are ALWAYS extreme ends of the scale, but for every extremist there are thousands of people who function perfectly fine while doing it and face reality just fine. But so far this is just long rants and you agreeing with the multitude of people who happen to take your side on this. If anything, the problem here is people like you who think others should live their lives the way you imagine it should be done, this is how oppression starts.

 

Final point, there is nothing wrong with the culture; As with any niche, you will have people who take it to the extreme and you have plenty of people who function just fine while enjoying it.

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Aoibara

Well, I am gonna ask the mods to lock down this thread because I have realized my big mistake here. I will also not mind taking any penalties if any.

 

First off, I am going to apologize to everybody who I may have offended, and I did not intend to hurt anyone at all. I just wanted to give out my few points, and I just wanted to share my thoughts. I do believe I have went too far and turned this into hate.

 

Also, I did not mention forcing everyone to having a relationship. It may sounded like it, but I had no intention of that. I know alot of people who don't want relationships, and I am cool with it. I also wasn't saying every man or woman are like that, and there are non-extreme ones.

 

However, I will still not change my thoughts on the waifu and hasbando culture, and I WILL still harbor my dislike for it for many reasons. I am a person who won't side with anybody until I have made a judgment on what I think sounds better for me, and I choose the anti side of this culture based on my thoughts, and the thoughts of others. What irks me the most is saying the dakimakura won't hurt you and you will never be heartbroken and I just laugh wholeheartedly at that. You can say that if you want. So I hope every one of you understand that I will not, and probably never change my thoughts on this thing. I am sorry if you cannot accept my words, but that is who I am. Like the last two posters said, everybody can have their choices, so I can have mine here.

 

Well, nice day to you everybody.

 

Aoibara

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SakuraDreams
love... one of the most powerful emotions out there. but lets be honest its hard to find it. once you do find it. its even trickier to maintain it. cause once you lose it. it will feel like the end of the world and sometimes you cant bear to live on without the other and literally end existing.

 

Of course shinegamix is mostly characterizing Western - especially UK/North American/etc women. I think girls from Taiwan, Japan, Eastern Europe, etc are less like this in general terms. Which is why a lot of Westerner men are also finding Russian, Ukrainian, Thai, Chinese etc. wives.


At home: DD Sakura Shinguji, DDS Yukiho Hagiwara, DD Asuna, DD Rina Ogata, DDS MOMO, DDS Ranko Kanzaki.

Waiting for: Hatsune Miku

Preordered: Ranka Lee

Countdown to Hatsune Miku.

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babytarragon

I think the problem lies with the difficulty of expressing views on the internet and having them recieved as they were intended...

 

Aoibara obviously feels very strongly on the subject, but I think her intentions are ultimately good... But I can also see how her wording could be taken as an attack rather than an attempt to help. But she's trying to help people who don't want/need helping! Very awkward situation indeed.

 

I think there is something to take away from the discussion - if a man is genuinely happy living with 2D girls then that's fine, he should be allowed to do so in peace. But if the man is lonely, and is only living with 2D girls because he's been let down and frustrated by real girls, I would hope he finds strength to try again, because it's worth it

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SakuraDreams
I'm not sure I really understand this waifu culture. Do they actually pick a fictional character or doll and treat her like a wife? The term to me would imply that they dedicate themselves to one character, but it always seems like otaku (or fans in general) just want more and more--as many appealing and cute anime girls as they can acquire. And when people call an anime character their 'waifu/husbando' it always seems done in jest, just to show that they really like that particular character (but not to the exclusion of other characters). I guess part of liking 2D girls is that they won't mind if you go after more than one?

 

I think it relates more to hikkis aka shut ins and the like. People who ONLY consider 2D and shun all real live people, and also probably also in non-romantic contexts too. I don't hate such people and I can understand them. But at the same time for many women this can feel strange and can make them think that a real person with all the good and the bad, is not the choice of affection but an idealised pet. If these guys only want idealised women - like those found in anime - well people will feel rejected. So feelings of incoming hate could be experienced on both sides.

 

Still I think throwing words such as hate is a bit strong. Hate for me is when someone wishes you dead or will go out of their way to do nasty things to you, not limited to trying to get you fired. Maybe insensitivity is a better word or misunderstanding. The best way for people to understand each other better however is to communicate.


At home: DD Sakura Shinguji, DDS Yukiho Hagiwara, DD Asuna, DD Rina Ogata, DDS MOMO, DDS Ranko Kanzaki.

Waiting for: Hatsune Miku

Preordered: Ranka Lee

Countdown to Hatsune Miku.

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babytarragon

Forgot to mention, this is exactly why I started the debate about whether females belong in this hobby.

 

Here collectors are finding a haven from the frustrations of dealing with women and then women like me come in and start nagging them to change their life in some way!

 

It's just so female to think you know what's best for people who are quite happy to make their own choices... We can't help it!!

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SakuraDreams
You do not get a free ticket to have sex with her just because you were nice. You should WANT to be nice to other people without EVER expecting to get any thing back. It's called being a decent human being. So when they get all butthurt about it, it shows that they're not the "nice guy" that they think they are. .

 

True. I was really down after a girl dumped me, while I was in hospital, of all things. I never did wind up hating her though. I figured, hey we both had a good time and I think I boosted her self image and made her more assertive because I was her first serious partner and she really changed with me around from a shy person to a more assertive one. And of course, even more important, had I let her go (I don't think it would have happened but hypothetically), she'd be one rejected and probably more upset. So yeah that made me see the brighter side - at least I didn't hurt her but was on the receiving end of rejection. Still I'd never call her a bitch. I hope she found someone better. ( She'd also absolutely hate this hobby too, haha.)


At home: DD Sakura Shinguji, DDS Yukiho Hagiwara, DD Asuna, DD Rina Ogata, DDS MOMO, DDS Ranko Kanzaki.

Waiting for: Hatsune Miku

Preordered: Ranka Lee

Countdown to Hatsune Miku.

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