Your views on recasts and other copied dolls

I am not sure if anybody made a thread about this here, if not, I would just go with it.

 

Personally and basically, I am against recasts and counterfeited items (I need to give my fake Gucci to someone. Pfft.) because that is in fact, another form of stealing and as an artist myself I dislike it when people do that to me, though it has never happened before. But I know I would be pretty upset.

 

I also say no to recasts because, like my basic statement above, the artist puts alot of work into the dolls we own today, and someone steals it. That is just low. We also have to recognize that except for Volks, most BJD companies are very small and can will never be as big as Volks. If people buy the counterfeit of that doll, the company will not make the money, and that is why some businesses close down.

 

One of the reasons I say no to recast dolls is, well, I am gonna be a bit spiritual there. I admit that I believe dolls may be inanimate, but they are actually living because they carry a soul inside. A recast doll, because of how it was created, is like an unwanted doll, and I feel sorry for the recasted doll because it gets ridiculed by others because it is an illegal item.

 

Well, these were my little coins for recast, and I request that we, myself included, try to stay away from arguing and not respecting others like what happened on the previous thread.

 

Edit: I am gonna have to flip my coins there and neutralize the original post here, because I admit I can get rude when it comes to touchy subjects. I am also gonna clear the misconceptions people have here about what I said.

 

First off, I will never say anyone who owns recasts are inferior and not welcome. They should still be welcome. I also hate elitists (The people who brag about owning the rarest Volks doll and not welcoming anyone in their circle. offtopic/ I fucking hate those people. Also, the extremist!lolitas who say they hate people who own Bodyline. (I have seen that on Yahoo Japan Answers, and I was totally shocked at what they said there.) Well, I know Bodyline has a bit of a negative vibe in Japan, but what is the meaning of hating Lolitas who wear Bodyline? I wear Bodyline too, I just avoid the replica ones (Again, its OK to have a replica dress too, but I am not interested.) /offtopic.) and they also ruin the hobby too.

 

I can prove that I don't mind recast owners by saying, I dislike the extremist recast rule on DoA (They ban anyone who are suggested to owning recasts.).

 

I am gonna have to admit that I can be rude, again. But from how people talk about these topics in other forums, I just wanted to take a slice and listen to what others say. I am quite fond with Error-chan's view of recasts, as well as the idea of limited and discontinued sculpts. +1 for that.

Edited January 14, 2014 by Guest

Buying a recast is a bit like shooting yourself in the foot. By doing it you:

- Remove the possibility for the originating company to develop their dolls by giving your money to someone who doesn't' give a damn about the product.

- Accept a product that is guaranteed inferior

- In the long run probably make the hobby a lot less fun for yourself

Lets face it, if you buy a copy Rolex (or whatever your favourite brand is (mine is Omega)), how likely is it that you will love and cherish that piece many years from now (how likely is it that it would even work)?

 

Buying a counterfeit/forged item (meaning somebody tries to make you believe it is the real thing) is simply stupid if you know the origin. You wouldn't accept fake money, would you?

 

The only reproductions I would accept are replicas made of old or rare items (like Fabergé eggs or archaeological items), with the consent (if applicable) from the originator. For dolls that would be far into the future though.

 

The soul of an item, its real value for you, lies partly in how much you yourself value it, I think the real thing will be more cared for then any recast.

 

My five cents, hopefully legally stamped.

I am from and help run a recast friendly sale and chat group on facebook and I see NOTHING wrong with recasts. really instead of me rambling on this video sums up what I and may others I know feel about the recast subject.

 

a point this lady makes is about recasts of limited dolls. the company is not getting hurt from the doll they no longer sell being sold and if I could get a head of Mariko that is not the original one I would go for it so I could have the face-up I was without hurting the original also I would try and make a sleeping head too I really would like one of them for Error.

 

The people that buy recast are no bad and I don't know why people can be so horrid about the people that do. In the end they are just dolls and if people can bully others for having recasts I don't want to know those bully's.

 

Others may disagree with how I and others feel about this but this is me and how I feel. if you don't like recasts just politely say there dolls are nice but you disagree with the recast subject and speak no more no need to be rude to the person. Mostly with the subject of recasts the Bulling is the part that makes me angry the most. need to stop the hate that seems to be getting more and more in the doll/bjd hobby.

 

((said I was not going to ramble but it seems I did XDD ))

First of all, I agree with Error, there's no reason to be rude.

Some buy counterfeits by mistake and some don't.

Those who willingly buy counterfeits have made their choice, and we can inform them about the issues of buying counterfeits but they should never be harassed or shut out of a community simply because of this.

This goes both ways.

I've encountered people who buy counterfeits who simply would throw a hissy fit at you for telling them that their item is a bootleg no matter how polite you are.

People who basically blame those who're buying the legit items and the manufacturers for making such hard to get or expensive items are among the worst people I've encountered in some of the collection-based communities I'm part of.

 

And please, don't pull that "They can't love their items because their items are counterfeits".

I've encountered so many who have bought bootlegs figures, both unaware and aware of the fact that it's a bootleg who has absolutely adored their counterfeit.

Even more so than a lot of "serious" collectors.

 

To sum it up, no counterfeits should be encouraged and it is wrong to buy these but it's not ok to harass and shut someone out simply because they own one.

Neither people who buy counterfeit nor those who don't should act assholes just because they dislike the other ones choice.

It's one thing to have an opinion and it's one thing being hateful towards others.

a point this lady makes is about recasts of limited dolls. the company is not getting hurt from the doll they no longer sell being sold and if I could get a head of Mariko that is not the original one I would go for it so I could have the face-up I was without hurting the original also I would try and make a sleeping head too I really would like one of them for Error.

 

I think that is simplifying it a bit. If it becomes acceptable to recast limited dolls, it will affect the sales for the originating company in the long run. Many will reason that it is worth waiting a few months for the cheaper recast to enter the market rather than pay the real price from the originator. To make it legal you would have to wait until the trademark or patent runs out.

 

By no means I will be rude or hate anybody for buying recasts, that is their choice...

I am not after those that buy the recasts, I rather feel a bit sorry for them, not being able to get the real thing, and I can understand their reasoning in part.

I am however not partial to those who infringe on others design and make money of it. Lets be honest, those who recast don't do it to be kind to the poor collectors, they do it for profit, and it is not impossible that some make a greater profit per invested hour than the original company.

I would also love to have some inexpensive heads to work on for my limited dolls, but I'll think twice before buying recasts.

 

And please, don't pull that "They can't love their items because their items are counterfeits".

I've encountered so many who have bought bootlegs figures, both unaware and aware of the fact that it's a bootleg who has absolutely adored their counterfeit.

Even more so than a lot of "serious" collectors.

 

I agree with this so much. The people I have met and talk to a lot in the hobby that own recasts do love them as much as there legit dolls.

A friendly warning Aoibara, you really must think before you post unless you want to be seen as a really rude person on this forum. Right now you're pretty much saying that recast owner's doll have little to no emotional value to the owner because it's a recast. Who are you do decide what a doll's emotional value is? That's a really old elitist view that I had hoped dissappeared by now in the doll community.

 

I am not okay with recasts and bootlegs of any kind when it involves my hobbies. But I will never see a recast/bootleg owner as someone with less value in the community or shut them out. Not everyone buys recast/bootlegs willingly. Sometimes it can be really hard to know what you should look after, especially when you're new in a hobby. What I'm hoping to change is people's views on recasts/bootlegs. It's not okay to steal others work and it does hurt the industry. But I can sometimes sympathize with some of those who buys recasts of older discontinued items, the aftermarket of some dolls/figures/etc is really ridiculous. And the aftermarket does barely affect the companies that much.

 

I am also not okay with how some people who owns recasts/bootlegs act, like Coffee described.

While i cant talk too much about this subject id like to ask this question on this matter.

 

How would forumites here feel about recasts not of an entire doll but of individual parts as replacements for damaged or for otherwise hard to get parts?

While i cant talk too much about this subject id like to ask this question on this matter.

 

How would forumites here feel about recasts not of an entire doll but of individual parts as replacements for damaged or for otherwise hard to get parts?

 

I personally think its a lovely idea. unlike are DDs its not always the easiest to get the parts of the resin dolls separately. I owned SOOM MD and I know if I broke one ( EG. Soom Heliot original one) if I broke his horn or his hooves I would freak out but knowing there was someone that I could buy that one piece from I would of been happy. I don't look at the resin side other then photos but form what I know there isn't much choice for replacement parts especially if they are limited but I may be wrong there I don't know.

While i cant talk too much about this subject id like to ask this question on this matter.

 

How would forumites here feel about recasts not of an entire doll but of individual parts as replacements for damaged or for otherwise hard to get parts?

 

I personally think its a lovely idea. unlike are DDs its not always the easiest to get the parts of the resin dolls separately. I owned SOOM MD and I know if I broke one ( EG. Soom Heliot original one) if I broke his horn or his hooves I would freak out but knowing there was someone that I could buy that one piece from I would of been happy. I don't look at the resin side other then photos but form what I know there isn't much choice for replacement parts especially if they are limited but I may be wrong there I don't know.

 

There are very few resin companies that makes replacement parts what I know. Mostly only makes a replacement part for you if the doll arrives broken.

That could be compared to a repair service(for example a broken car), if you want the original you have to be prepared for the costs but there is a cheaper option.

A friendly warning Aoibara, you really must think before you post unless you want to be seen as a really rude person on this forum. Right now you're pretty much saying that recast owner's doll have little to no emotional value to the owner because it's a recast. Who are you do decide what a doll's emotional value is? That's a really old elitist view that I had hoped dissappeared by now in the doll community.

 

I am not okay with recasts and bootlegs of any kind when it involves my hobbies. But I will never see a recast/bootleg owner as someone with less value in the community or shut them out. Not everyone buys recast/bootlegs willingly. Sometimes it can be really hard to know what you should look after, especially when you're new in a hobby. What I'm hoping to change is people's views on recasts/bootlegs. It's not okay to steal others work and it does hurt the industry. But I can sometimes sympathize with some of those who buys recasts of older discontinued items, the aftermarket of some dolls/figures/etc is really ridiculous. And the aftermarket does barely affect the companies that much.

 

I am also not okay with how some people who owns recasts/bootlegs act, like Coffee described.

 

I did not intend say a person who buys recast are emotionless, nor did I even decided that. I do admit I can get brash when it comes to controversial topics, but I am honest that I am in no way saying everybody is like that. Again, I am fine with people who own bootlegs, but I was just throwing out my point of views. I will edit my original post, so I can clarify that I am not going to shut out anyone who owns recasts. Hell, alot of my friends have counterfeits, and though I am against that, I just let them flow as if nothing happened.

 

TBH, I dislike how DoA runs its anti-recast rule because it is rather semi-extremist if I should just say in the tiniest amount of words. I mean, they ban people who are suspected of owning recasts. Yes. Look it up. I am against recasts. Yes. However, just because someone owns a recast and banning them is just messed up, its like what you said here, "I will never see a recast/bootleg owner as someone with less value in the community or shut them out", is extremely true. If I were to have a doll forum, I may set up an anti-recast rule, but I wouldn't ban anyone just because they own a recast. I also am an admin at a figure group on dA where they accept bootlegs, and do I make a crap about the bootlegs folder? Nope. If it is there, its there because it is our choice.

 

The video Error-chan put up about limited dolls, she makes a good point and I actually understand clearly there.

 

Also yes. There are people who buy counterfeits by mistake, and becaues it is a mistake, it can't really be helped. If it happens to us, what happens to the item is up to our choice.

 

And Bloodflower, I will take your warning, I will be careful next time as I really don't intend to be rude at all.

I've always liked Anime, ever since I was a child. Being in our hobby, you must know that it is expensive. I was into figurines first, and those are not cheap by any means either. I grew up in Hong Kong, which is pretty much the King of bootleg figurines. To me, there were no "bootleg" or "authentic" as a child. All I knew was that there was a figurine of Sailor Moon in the store that day, and I loved it. I would spend months of chores money to get it. There was no difference to me, and I loved my figurines no less.

 

Years later, I found discussions about bootlegs and realized that many of my figurines were as such. I was very disappointed in myself because I wanted to be a part of the growing Anime community. At this point, I was the president of my local Anime Club and was pursuing an entry to art college. But... By no means am I going to push anyone to by only authentic figurines especially when they are 3x the cost- if that person loves it no less. Sometimes it's hard, especially for those without a steady income or with less wealthy backgrounds.

 

Similarly, a lot of people are guilty of torrenting or downloading movies, games, etc. legally. I sort of see this as the "recast" of media. I was strongly guilty of some of these during my college years because I was literally living off beans and rice. The moment I graduated and got a full time job, I vowed to never do that again and support those industries I love- because I can, finally.

 

Again, it's not about whether it's a bootleg or recast but your attitude towards the matter. I think being in the correct mindset for it is important.

 

What I don't agree with are those with the money and refuse to spend it on an authentic product. As OldMagician as mentioned before, this behavior actually hurts the industry a lot. Even if the product is limited, the supply and demand chain strongly depends on the production value of these product. That is why Volks makes so many limited dolls. The feeling of being "exclusive" is something that sells very well in Japan.

 

Lastly, I didn't want to chime in but I think these type topics are extremely controversial and unnecessary on these forums. They create unwanted drama and in the end, no one walks away being happy. There is a strong difference between being "honest" and being "controversial" and this is the latter just to be so.

Lastly, I didn't want to chime in but I think these type topics are extremely controversial and unnecessary on these forums. They create unwanted drama and in the end, no one walks away being happy. There is a strong difference between being "honest" and being "controversial" and this is the latter just to be so.

 

Quoted for truth! I don't want to comment on recasts, but I do want to say how much I agree with this.

The feeling of being "exclusive" is something that sells very well in Japan.

 

Well said, and although I am Japanese (Yes I am. Give me a question about my culture, I can answer it.), I dislike the "exclusive" feeling alot. In my original post where I just edited, I went off-topic for a few seconds on why I hate extremists. Those people (Not all.), tend to be really snobbish and makes me wanna punch them in their faces. I do get envies sometimes because I have a SDGr boy, but I just thank them and thats it. I don't feel exclusive or feel like a "speshul snowflake".

 

Lastly, I didn't want to chime in but I think these type topics are extremely controversial and unnecessary on these forums. They create unwanted drama and in the end, no one walks away being happy. There is a strong difference between being "honest" and being "controversial" and this is the latter just to be so.

 

I agree, but I just wondered what if I did it here because there are other forums which discuss about this topic, so I just planted in to see what others think.

Well, I don't really have an opinion on recasts...just wanted to know.. Is it even technically possible to recast vinyl parts? Owning both resin and vinyl dolls, it seems that the difference in the manufacturing process would mean an almost impossible task to "clone" a vinyl doll from scratch..

Well, I don't really have an opinion on recasts...just wanted to know.. Is it even technically possible to recast vinyl parts? Owning both resin and vinyl dolls, it seems that the difference in the manufacturing process would mean an almost impossible task to "clone" a vinyl doll from scratch..

 

Recasting vinyl parts. If you were to make a recast of a vinyl part into resin, I suppose that is possible because the shape of the item is made from silicon molds, then resin is poured in.

 

But cloning a vinyl doll from scratch may be more difficult indeed, and I can't think up of any idea on that.

I won't post my personal feelings too much, because they are strong, and I don't want to cause offence.

 

All I will post is fact:

 

I was working in the doll business, I stopped because of recasts.

 

And I feel extremely sad, I have lost a lot.

 

A lot of people said recasts never hurt anyone, this isn't true. They hurt me.

 

Edit: I feel it's important to add, I don't blame the buyers of the recasts! I blame the piraters for making them available! Please don't think I'm attacking doll owners... I feel sad when I see people buy fakes of dolls which are still available to buy direct, but I don't feel angry with the person who did it, I don't believe they mean harm, they just maybe have an impulsive personality, or don't know the doll business well.

I agree with babytarragon... recasts are bad. I don't think most people who buy recasts intend to hurt the original company, but that's really what happens. And they are giving their money to thieves (the recasters) instead of to the company that created the dolls. Why would anyone give them so much money?

I hope to make and sell BJDs myself, so I hope I never encounter recasters. I'm afraid more and more people will become accepting of recasts, and it will really damage these small doll companies.

 

And this clearly explains my point of view.

I won't post my personal feelings too much, because they are strong, and I don't want to cause offence.

 

All I will post is fact:

 

I was working in the doll business, I stopped because of recasts.

 

And I feel extremely sad, I have lost a lot.

 

A lot of people said recasts never hurt anyone, this isn't true. They hurt me.

 

Edit: I feel it's important to add, I don't blame the buyers of the recasts! I blame the piraters for making them available! Please don't think I'm attacking doll owners... I feel sad when I see people buy fakes of dolls which are still available to buy direct, but I don't feel angry with the person who did it, I don't believe they mean harm, they just maybe have an impulsive personality, or don't know the doll business well.

 

Sorry to hear that. I can understand how much it hurts.

 

And yes, we cannot blame the recast owners because that is devaluing them.

 

I agree with babytarragon... recasts are bad. I don't think most people who buy recasts intend to hurt the original company, but that's really what happens. And they are giving their money to thieves (the recasters) instead of to the company that created the dolls. Why would anyone give them so much money?

I hope to make and sell BJDs myself, so I hope I never encounter recasters. I'm afraid more and more people will become accepting of recasts, and it will really damage these small doll companies.

 

Lets hope you don't encounter recasters when you make your dolls!

 

 

And this clearly explains my point of view.

 

THIS. +1. This picture explains it all.

 

Side note: Again, I am not saying recast owners are inferior. They are the same like us.

I think that piracy/knock offs will always exist whether some people like it or not, and this applies to all sorts of products.

 

There is a segment of the population who are only willing to pay the lowest price possible for something that "functions".

 

For an expensive enthusiast hobby like 1/3 dolls, sometimes a person who buys a cheap recast as a starter doll(s) might move on to buy genuine products later. For someone who is just starting the hobby, they might not want to make as large of an investment on a hobby they might get bored of. If only genuine dolls that are out of their price range are available in the market, that person might just not get into the hobby at all.

I am staunchly anti-recast. I believe it is wrong of the recasters to create these counterfeits, and wrong for people to knowingly buy them. I feel a great deal of sympathy for those that are duped into buying a recast. But I also believe that they should do everything in their power to get their money back so that they can buy the legitimate item.

 

I know several BJD artists who make a large portion of their living creating these dolls. I pray that the recasters never get their hands on their work, as it would be a serious blow to them, and to the community if they decide to no longer create their beautiful dolls because of this problem. Recasting is stealing, and knowingly buying a recast is illegal, while sending money to thieves. It's not only depriving the artist's of their income, it's taking from those who do the hard labor of casting and sanding and painting these dolls. Instead you're paying someone who is likely a part of organized crime, and who is probably not concerned over their workers welfare (because let's face it, with the amount of recasts coming out, this is not just a 1 or 2 person operation).

 

This is a growing problem. There is a movement to try and get these dolls accepted in the community, to get this practice de-stigmatized, and I simply don't agree with that. They're hurting the hobby, both the artists and the second hand market. Newcomers are told that they can get the dolls they want for less and that it's "ok" when it seriously isn't.

 

It's not a question of money, because there are plenty of legitimate dolls out there that are in the same price margins as the recasts. That, and many recast owners have several dolls instead of just one.

 

I don't like to associate with people who buy recasts. It isn't an elitist thing or a snobbish thing or any other myriad of clique tendencies. I feel that they have made a choice that hurts the hobby I love and the people I admire, and I don't want to encourage that behavior.

 

The other thing that people might want to think about, is that there may very well be legal repercussions for buying/selling these dolls, promoting them, and creating places where they can be bought/sold. The companies have been trying for years to get the recasters shut down, but due to the crappy international laws (especially where the recasters are based) and the sheer cost of legal fees, it's been really hard. Now they're banding together, getting serious legal help, and are preparing to go after people in court. And it won't just be the recasters. It likely going to take more time to get all their ducks in a row, but they're serious about this, and honestly I hope they succeed.

An example is Luts Tiny Delf. The real doll isn't really that expensive, and is easy to get in different skin tones, yet people still buy the fake to save a mere $70. In this kind of hobby, $70 really isn't much.

 

It's just a shame that there's no way to counter the spread. There's all these communities promoting recasts and sending dolls to the bootleggers to be copied, but if anyone tried to do anything to resist it they would just be met with anger.

 

Is there anything we can do beyond not buying them?

It's not a question of money, because there are plenty of legitimate dolls out there that are in the same price margins as the recasts.

 

Look. Resinsoul is only 200 bucks approximately. I mean, 200 bucks for a 1/3 range doll is extremely cheap, because they are usually 3 times more expensive! So you are really true on that statement vhdangel!

 

An example is Luts Tiny Delf. The real doll isn't really that expensive, and is easy to get in different skin tones, yet people still buy the fake to save a mere $70. In this kind of hobby, $70 really isn't much.

 

70$ is very cheap for a BJD, indeed.

I mostly disagree with all the bullying and online stalking that resulted from people trying to hunt down anyone with a recast. People were sending death threats to BJD Text Confessions when I was running it that said awful things like, "I want to pour acid down a recast-owner's throat." Like man, folks, I know you feel really strongly about recasts-- but the bullying and online stalking are way over the line.