Your views on recasts and other copied dolls

I mostly disagree with all the bullying and online stalking that resulted from people trying to hunt down anyone with a recast. People were sending death threats to BJD Text Confessions when I was running it that said awful things like, "I want to pour acid down a recast-owner's throat." Like man, folks, I know you feel really strongly about recasts-- but the bullying and online stalking are way over the line.

 

Seriously? Death threats? This is going way too far.

Death threats over dolls... The internet never ceases to amaze me.

Yeah, that's why I quit running BJD Text Confessions. It was truly getting out of hand, and I didn't need that kind of negativity in my inbox all the time. uwu Once again, passion is a good thing! However, the witch hunting that some people had gotten involved with due to the "oh no, recasts are a thing?!??!" frenzy was too much.

It's not a question of money, because there are plenty of legitimate dolls out there that are in the same price margins as the recasts.

 

Look. Resinsoul is only 200 bucks approximately. I mean, 200 bucks for a 1/3 range doll is extremely cheap, because they are usually 3 times more expensive! So you are really true on that statement vhdangel!

 

Resinsoul has some lovely BJDs. I seriously want a 1/6 Bei in Sky Blue skin, and she only runs $100. But it's not just ResinSoul/Bobobie. There are tons of BJD companies that have dolls under or around the $200 mark. Most of them aren't SD size, granted, but there are some incredibly beautiful sculpts out there. Asleep Eidolon is one that I keep going back to. You can get a complete 1/3 doll from Mirodoll for $150! Many of the owners in my "local" BJD group love their quality. So it can be done.

 

An example is Luts Tiny Delf. The real doll isn't really that expensive, and is easy to get in different skin tones, yet people still buy the fake to save a mere $70. In this kind of hobby, $70 really isn't much.

 

70$ is very cheap for a BJD, indeed.

 

I think she meant that the people buying the recast version were only saving $70, not that the doll only cost $70.

 

I mostly disagree with all the bullying and online stalking that resulted from people trying to hunt down anyone with a recast. People were sending death threats to BJD Text Confessions when I was running it that said awful things like, "I want to pour acid down a recast-owner's throat." Like man, folks, I know you feel really strongly about recasts-- but the bullying and online stalking are way over the line.

 

The death threats are just so... childish. I can understand arguing your point, but seriously wishing someone harm just makes you lose all credibility and you're not gonna convince anyone your ideals are correct. I'm sure some of these confessions came from trolls (who may have been recast friendly themselves), in order to stir the pot. But still, I can imagine that it was quite disturbing to read.

 

To be fair, the sh*t was slung both ways. And people took a lot of things out of context (or read what they wanted to) and blew things way out of proportion, on both sides. Tumblr isn't exactly known for being the kindest place on the internet.

 

I also found it quite upsetting that people claimed to have harmed other people's dolls, both legitimate and recast, because they didn't agree with the owner's stance on the issue. That is utter bullsh*t!

 

Yeah, that's why I quit running BJD Text Confessions. It was truly getting out of hand, and I didn't need that kind of negativity in my inbox all the time. uwu Once again, passion is a good thing! However, the witch hunting that some people had gotten involved with due to the "oh no, recasts are a thing?!??!" frenzy was too much.

 

I don't know if you started it or if it was passed to you, but I was sad when it stopped, because I enjoyed most of the confessions. However, I can understand the reasoning behind shutting it down.

 

Another point I'd like to make: I think the threats made by Grace of J-Pop dolls to the owner of the blog were WAY out of line. Yes, I can understand her upset that someone confessed to wanting to buy one of her artist's dolls just to send it to the recasters. But in her zeal to stop it, she misinterpreted the post, not realizing that it wasn't the blog owner saying that, that it was actually an anonymous submission that the admin had no control over (or way to track). If anything, she should have thanked the blog owner for making it public that someone intended to do that (or at least claim they did).

 

I'm glad that Grace is working hard to try to stop the recast epidemic, and she has personally helped a lot of companies gather information and legal help to get the ball rolling. But she gets too emotional, and tends to pull out the pitchfork before she completely grasps the situation. I think she needs to walk away from the computer and seek advice from calmer people every time she finds something she thinks pertains to recasts, and then come back in a professional manner to address it. It would do a lot to improve the image of the anti-recast stance.

Saving $70 is a big deal for cheap people lol.

 

The same people might drive an extra 10km to save a $1 on a case of soda/pop. Maybe even buy a generic brand of cola!

 

They also might refuse to pay full price on electronics, but can be swayed if a free cable worth $10 is thrown in, cause that would make it a deal =).

 

I think one reason why people might buy recasts instead of the cheaper genuine resin BJD brands, is because the cheaper brands usually don't have as nice of heads.

$70 might be a lot, but it's worth it.

 

You actually lose money if you drive 10km out of your way to save a dollar, but I think I understand the gist of what you meant.

 

The problem is, you're not buying a generic soda. Buying a recast is equivalent to buying the brand name soda for less from someone who boosted a case of it off the back of a truck. Or stole the secret recipe from the corporate office and is now selling out of his house while his kids are in back bottling it without protective gear.

 

The less expensive brands were mentioned because so often recast owners claim that they can't get any BJDs within their price range. And there are plenty of "cheap" brands with gorgeous heads. But they want the popular/prettier/limited ones, and they don't want to save up for them.

 

We all have dolls that we want and can't afford. I recently had to pass up 2 limited Soom dolls that I dearly loved and desperately want. But there was no way that I could justify the expense right now, even on layaway. I'll probably have to pass up 3 more before this year's Winter Events are over, simply because of other obligations. However, I'm not going to turn to recasts later, no matter how much I want the dolls, because I respect the artists and the companies enough to wait for a re-release or be patient in the second hand market.

 

I may never again get the chance to legitimately own these dolls. But that's ok, because they are a luxury item, and not a necessity. I am very grateful for what I do have, and realize that just because I desire something, doesn't mean that I have a right to it. That's the way the world works.

My first job out of college was working at a department store selling expensive brand-name purses. Knock-off purses were definitely a problem for us. I'd actually have people come in with the knock-offs and tell me how they were "just the same, but cheaper". But they weren't--the high-end purses usually had superior craftsmanship that even an untrained eye could see.

 

I've also had two companies (Suncoast/Musicland and Blockbuster) that I later worked for go into bankruptcy because of video piracy. There were other issues involved as well, but the biggest problem was that customers decided that there was nothing wrong with downloading movies illegally. They thought it didn't hurt anyone--except the thousands of workers like me who lost their jobs!

 

So when I hear people defending recasts, I get really frustrated with them. In the long run, it is NOT a victimless crime. It DOES hurt the legit companies and their artists.

Continuing on from what vhdangel said, sometimes it's nice not to get everything you want. It's something the Dollfie Dream hobby has which the ball joined doll hobby is losing. That feeling of 'grail doll' that you lust over bit is always out of reach.

 

When I first joined the bjd hobby in 2004 then there was a lot of fun in admiring volks limited dolls. Now, I can't dream of owning a Megohime without thinking about recasts, and it sours it. I don't lust for Soom limited dolls but the same applies.

 

When Kinoko Juice was recast, that's when I became really depressed on the matter. The doll is the definition of artist doll, with the artist only making very limited runs just for fun. And someone decided to ruin all that just out of pure selfishness. The people who send artist dolls to the bootleggers are people I really can't understand. Is it some kind of petty "if I can't have it no one can" or what?

I'm not defending recasts. I'm just saying there is a market for them. They also cater to a market that might not buy genuine items due to price (for whatever reason, like frugality or being broke). Since this demand for them exists, there will always be someone selling them.

 

Its like illegal drugs. There is a demand for it. It's illegal. Someone who can take the risk will bring the product to market if there is money to be made. Drugs have been deemed "bad", but a lot people still want them.

 

Why buy a fake LV or Coach bag when there are nice bags that are of cheaper brands? The person buying the knock off will probably tell you they like the "style" of the expensive brand model better. Same with resin BJDs.

 

I don't see there being laws to protect artists anytime soon. It is not in China's interest (where most bootlegs are produced) to go hunting down bootleggers. Recognizing foreign copyrights just means more money going to foreign corporations and entrepreneurs. For example, Apple might start suing chinese domestic phone manufacturers for copying Iphone design. These copied phones only sell officially inside China so they are legal there.

vhdangel, I'm glad you enjoyed BJD Text Confessions. Someone I knew had started the original BJD Confessions but then took it down because of the issues with photos. Then with her blessing and a stash of the confessions she had left, I started BJD Text Confessions. Around the time the recast outcry was coming to a climax, I bowed out and passed it onto my friend who was also helping me run it at the time. As far as I know, said friend is busy doing other things now. I actually didn't know about the thing with Grace until just now, as I stopped reading confession blogs in general. Interesting.

 

Yes, the negativity came from all sides of the recast debate. It's not that I'm naive (I'm also not saying that you implied that I am)-- I do know that people can be cruel and childish. However, the way that people flaunted the poisonous combination of cruel and childish was just something I no longer needed to be aware of in my life-- and being arms deep in the recast debate was making it too much of a presence. I remember how I felt like I couldn't win, too!

 

The BJD companies probably also feel that they can't win. It's truly sad, because at the end of the day this hobby is incredibly niche. No one is becoming a fat cat from selling dolls, honestly. The biggest brands are still run by modest business owners, and the smallest brands just try to break even.

My two cents. Can we please not bring the recast debate onto this forum? I love the peace of this place and the fact that we have pretty much 0 drama it seems.

Doomkitty, I understand what you mean. This place is so nicely free of sabotage it's a shame to bring it up.

 

I could go on forever about this subject but really need to stop myself >_<

I think one reason why people might buy recasts instead of the cheaper genuine resin BJD brands, is because the cheaper brands usually don't have as nice of heads.

I think people with this reasoning are just not looking around enough and only staying with the popular brands, FL, Unoa and Volks (most of the recasts are of those dolls anyway).

 

Asleep Eidolon, Mystic Kids, Resinsoul, Doll Leaves, 5 Star Doll, Dikadoll and Doll Family have cheap SDs, Illusion Spirit have cheap yo-SDs and SDs, Only Doll, Dragon Doll for SDs, Angel of Dream, Akagidoll...just to name a few, I am sure I'm missing a bunch of them...but these are the ones from the back of my mind.

 

And if they don't like the heads of these cheap companies anyway, they can just hybrid then.

Asleep Eidolon, Mystic Kids, Resinsoul, Doll Leaves, 5 Star Doll, Dikadoll and Doll Family have cheap SDs, Illusion Spirit have cheap yo-SDs and SDs, Only Doll, Dragon Doll for SDs, Angel of Dream, Akagidoll...just to name a few, I am sure I'm missing a bunch of them...but these are the ones from the back of my mind.

 

And if they don't like the heads of these cheap companies anyway, they can just hybrid then.

 

That's definitely true. I took a look at some of those brands you posted (some of which I didn't know of before) and some do have nice heads that are comparable to the famous brands, like Mystic Kids.

 

There might be some buyers that only know of Ebay as a place to buy. I know that this is the case for anime scale figures since I collect them. Ebay is probably the worst place to buy.

 

I'm tempted to buy a cheaper resin BJD but after comparing prices, I'd rather pay a bit more and get another base model DD. I have a big fear of braking the resin which has kept me away from buying resin scale figures.

There might be some buyers that only know of Ebay as a place to buy. I know that this is the case for anime scale figures since I collect them. Ebay is probably the worst place to buy.

 

Most of the time, Ebay is the worst, but there are a few reputable sellers. But nontheless, I would avoid at most costs.

I'm not a recast supporter. Sometimes people use the justification that it's like online piracy (ex downloading movies or mp3s) but that's not true. When you leech off the web, you don't pay a third party for the copied goods. Since they are sold, I call them 'bootlegs'. Sure some models are discontinued, but when you give your money, you do give your money to someone who is making cash off someone else's work. They do sell other dolls currently available and giving them money IMO is lousy. Be patient and you will find your grail doll. The wait will also allow you to save the money for it.

 

In the end to each their own. My only problem as a hobbyist is when I'm checking sales threads, wondering if something is a recast being sold as a legit. I've heard of people receiving recasts in trades/sales when they were advertised as legits. I shouldn't have to be paranoid.

 

I wonder if figurine forums accept bootleg figurines/garage kits being posted other than for educational purposes (how do identify a bootleg). Anyone know?

 

And I agree with other people saying that it's not fair to say that the dolls mean less because they are recast. The meaning of things depends on the individual. Value and Meaning are not the same. Your doll might not be worth a lot, but it can mean a lot to you.

I wonder if figurine forums accept bootleg figurines/garage kits being posted other than for educational purposes (how do identify a bootleg). Anyone know?

 

The Transformers fandom is notorious for it's love and acceptance of the so-called "Third Party" transformers. Whether these myriad products are bootleg or not is debatable, since these aren't recasts of existing Transformers toys (although there are quite a few of those, as well), but are generally newly designed items based on the comic artwork, in most cases. Some are original designs, although they clearly represent Hasbro's characters. So it's a more nebulous issue than with flat out recasts, but still mostly illegal.

 

I seriously expect to see DD head recasts, probably even roto-casted vinyl ones, in the next year or so on eBay. I'm not supporting them, but the way this hobby is going, it's a matter of time.

 

A friend of mine has flat out said that Danny Choo's upcoming Smart Doll line is essentially a DD bootleg. I don't entirely agree, but I do see his point. Danny Choo clearly modeled the doll on the DDs he owns. There are some tweaks, like the DDdy style torso design, but... Yeah, I could believe he just used a 3D scanner on a DD body... I kind of like the idea of Volks having actual competition for once, though.

I wonder if figurine forums accept bootleg figurines/garage kits being posted other than for educational purposes (how do identify a bootleg). Anyone know?

 

A friend of mine has flat out said that Danny Choo's upcoming Smart Doll line is essentially a DD bootleg. I don't entirely agree, but I do see his point. Danny Choo clearly modeled the doll on the DDs he owns. There are some tweaks, like the DDdy style torso design, but... Yeah, I could believe he just used a 3D scanner on a DD body... I kind of like the idea of Volks having actual competition for once, though.

Hmmn in figure collecting there's a people that supporting bootleg than the original, they say "why buying the expensive one while you can get the same item with cheaper price?" Which is for me that was really sad, when actually they bought a really bad quality counterpart of the figures, a lot genuine collector that want to support their fav company by buying their original product, as for danny choo doll, at first I thought the same maybe he used 3D scan on a DD body, BUT after seeing a lot smart doll and DD comparison photos, I change my mind, they are totally different, maybe from distant it look a like, but smart doll body have different upper torso cut compared to DD, and the sculpt of the stomach really different, the thigh and hands looks different as well.

On Danny Choo's doll, isn't Volks' stance that all modern ball-jointed dolls are knock-offs? That would mean then too that the Azones and Obitsus, along with Smartdoll then, would also be considered knock-offs in Volks' eyes.

Yeah, it's fair to call Smart Doll a knock-off, in the same sense of how Go-Bots were a knock-off of Transformers back in the 80's. Calling them competing products would be more polite.

If all modern BJD considered a knock off by volks, so all other BJD beside volks made was a knock off??

Did Volks invent BJD? If yes, then all the others are knock-offs, from a certain point of view. I'm not using the term "knock-off" to mean "bootleg" here. A bootleg would be a direct copy, a knock-off is just using the same basic idea. Like GoBots, a toyline from the 1980s, which was the same thing as Transformers, but made by Tonka, not Hasbro.

 

I'm sure Volks or hardcore Volks fans would see other BJD or vinyl dolls as knock-offs of Volks' products. As I said above, competing products would be a more polite way to refer to them, but snobs will be snobs. Personally, I think it's good for Volks to have competition, it makes them and their competitors try harder to deliver a good product.

Hmmn I've read it somewhere that the first BJD was made in germany, but VOLKS the first company who make BJD in asia on 1990, so some people can say VOLKS product was that "germany bjd knock off" lol, and DD was barbie knock off seriously, I think its more suitable to called it competitor, anyway about the transformer thing, if the other company that has a legal license for the franchise make the same toyline from certain series, movie, or game, I think it doesn't considered as knock off, since they have the license, when they making it without the license, it was a knock off, same like an anime static figures, there a one character that have a different figure from a 3 different company it doesn't considered as an knock off, because they mainly different, I think it more suitable to called it competitor.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Guest

Eh, I don't think it's really fair to call all non-Volks BJDs (including Smart Doll) knock offs. By that logic, anything that isn't the first of it's kind is some kind of knock off (first teddy bear? first toy car? first company to do anime figures? is everything after that a knock off?)

Aren't popular dolls out off order since day 1? Aren't they limited edition? Volks did sold their stock so they did get their money. They don't get money from reseller aren't they?